Why is Ja'Marr Chase the consensus top receiver?

[Ragnarok]

54 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I do consider DeVonta Smith a better prospect than Amari Cooper.

 

Devonta is a better competitor, works harder and is fundamentally as rock solid as you can get.  His worth ethic and desire to improve his craft is not going to stop once he gets to the NFL.  He is already a professional in college and prepares as a professional, once he is literally a NFL player that will only get better.  Sure he is thin but he does not have some awful injury history, he can get separation and if he runs a 4.4 40 there is not many questions about his game really.  Only one really is true deep speed, sure size matters but last time I checked being in good shape and being able to run constantly is wildly important and he has the frame for that and the muscle type for that.  He can go up and get the football, has great hands, runs great routes and out competes most he goes up against.  He has no problem taking contact or getting away from defenders after the catch either.

 

The dude is a fighter, has been called the most competitive player on the team at Alabama and is a true leader of that team.  Chase, well you cannot really say that about him, he sat out this year because guess what his QB sucked and it probably was going to make him look bad along with his team which was clearly not as good as last year.  DeVonta Smith did not know Mac Jones was going to be as good as he was this year, but he still went out there and competed, in doing so only won the Heisman trophy and a National Championship.  Not bad for a guy who could have also just sat out the season.  

There is no way of knowing that Devonta is a better competitor or harder worker than Chase.  

Sitting out this year due to pandemic is not indicative of either of those traits.

[Ozzy]

21 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

There is no way of knowing that Devonta is a better competitor or harder worker than Chase.  

Sitting out this year due to pandemic is not indicative of either of those traits.

Maybe, but it is not exactly the sign of someone who loves the game.  Are there dangers to playing, sure there is always dangers to playing football even without a international pandemic going on.  Based on what DeVonta Smith did over this career, I would no question put him as a more competitive kid with more drive and has determination than Ja'Marr Chase.  Still what has Chase been doing this entire time?  He better run some 4.3 40 or something because that is a hell of a lot of time off and for combine prep when they are now not even having a combine?  

 

Why did Chase sit out?  Fear of getting COVID-19, he and every other person on earth yeah.  Fear of playing with a **** QB?  Fear of losing games because LSU was not nearly as good of a team this year?  Fear of passing on COVID-19 to a loved one or family member, yeah join everyone on earth in that one. Fear of getting hurt which is a constant in football.  

 

DeVonta Smith is mentally stronger to Chase who is physically bigger and stronger.  Look at Smith from FR to SR year.  Not being physically gifted in any way in terms of elite speed, height or size.  The kid has worked his way to being a equal or superior WR prospect with much less physical ability in terms of speed and size.  That to me shows he is a better worker because he came in with far less, had less to work with technically and look at how his work ethic and helped his game.  He has had to work harder than Chase to be a great player and he did exactly that.  Who in the world would have thought the kid would win the Heisman trophy this year?  "Smith wasn't even listed as an option to start the season at Caesars Sportsbook by William Hill, but he started putting up big numbers and was added to the betting menu on Oct. 24 as a 60-1 underdog. "

 

The kid is a fighter and to me there is zero question of who is the more mentally stronger, more competitive and determined individual when looking at those two.  He has high character and those intangibles to me put him at a slight edge over Chase especially if he works out well and I see no reason why he will not.  If he runs some slow high 4.5 or 4.6 40 that could be an issue but I see him as a 4.4 or low 4.5 range guy.  Only thing he does not have his game breaking speed but the kid can prepare and is so smart, look at what he did as a punt returner this year when Waddle was out.  Dude got a punt return for a TD and was more than just ok at it despite the fact he does not have great short area quickness or make you miss ability, that he has also worked great at improving and has improved greatly at it.

 

Tyler Lockett was 182 at the combine and plays at that currently over five years later and has not hurt him one bit.  TY Hilton is at 183 or so, shorter though obviously.  
Justin Jefferson I think was 192 at the combine and is now 201 or so in the NFL.  Stefon Diggs is 195 and was around that at the combine.  Biggest issue could be can he play with a great QB or will he get the chance to.  Like any WRs, put him with Russell Wilson and he could be amazing like Lockett has been.  Put him with the wrong guy and it could be an issue, take Davante Adams, could also be out of the NFL arguably if he was was never drafted by Green Bay and was a Jaguar or something instead, especially with how slowly he started his career.  

 

 

  

 

[Ragnarok]

7 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Maybe, but it is not exactly the sign of someone who loves the game.  Are there dangers to playing, sure there is always dangers to playing football even without a international pandemic going on.  Based on what DeVonta Smith did over this career, I would no question put him as a more competitive kid with more drive and has determination than Ja'Marr Chase.  Still what has Chase been doing this entire time?  He better run some 4.3 40 or something because that is a hell of a lot of time off and for combine prep when they are now not even having a combine?  

 

Why did Chase sit out?  Fear of getting COVID-19, he and every other person on earth yeah.  Fear of playing with a **** QB?  Fear of losing games because LSU was not nearly as good of a team this year?  Fear of passing on COVID-19 to a loved one or family member, yeah join everyone on earth in that one. Fear of getting hurt which is a constant in football.  

 

DeVonta Smith is mentally stronger to Chase who is physically bigger and stronger.  Look at Smith from FR to SR year.  Not being physically gifted in any way in terms of elite speed, height or size.  The kid has worked his way to being a equal or superior WR prospect with much less physical ability in terms of speed and size.  That to me shows he is a better worker because he came in with far less, had less to work with technically and look at how his work ethic and helped his game.  He has had to work harder than Chase to be a great player and he did exactly that.  Who in the world would have thought the kid would win the Heisman trophy this year?  "Smith wasn't even listed as an option to start the season at Caesars Sportsbook by William Hill, but he started putting up big numbers and was added to the betting menu on Oct. 24 as a 60-1 underdog. "

 

The kid is a fighter and to me there is zero question of who is the more mentally stronger, more competitive and determined individual when looking at those two.  He has high character and those intangibles to me put him at a slight edge over Chase especially if he works out well and I see no reason why he will not.  If he runs some slow high 4.5 or 4.6 40 that could be an issue but I see him as a 4.4 or low 4.5 range guy.  Only thing he does not have his game breaking speed but the kid can prepare and is so smart, look at what he did as a punt returner this year when Waddle was out.  Dude got a punt return for a TD and was more than just ok at it despite the fact he does not have great short area quickness or make you miss ability, that he has also worked great at improving and has improved greatly at it.

 

Tyler Lockett was 182 at the combine and plays at that currently over five years later and has not hurt him one bit.  TY Hilton is at 183 or so, shorter though obviously.  
Justin Jefferson I think was 192 at the combine and is now 201 or so in the NFL.  Stefon Diggs is 195 and was around that at the combine.  Biggest issue could be can he play with a great QB or will he get the chance to.  Like any WRs, put him with Russell Wilson and he could be amazing like Lockett has been.  Put him with the wrong guy and it could be an issue, take Davante Adams, could also be out of the NFL arguably if he was was never drafted by Green Bay and was a Jaguar or something instead, especially with how slowly he started his career.  

I don't think him sitting out this year is indicative of love of the game in any way anymore than a guy sitting out a bowl game is indicative.

You'd have to ask him.

You can't make that claim that Devonta is mentally stronger as you have no evidence to support that claim.

I agree he is a fighter and a very hard worker.

I do hope Devonta can add some weight and stay healthy.  

And I think they are 1a and 1b this year no doubt.  Both are great prospects.  My issue is you claiming that one has undeniably superior mental makeup when there's no actual evidence to support that.  

[Ozzy]

Just now, Ragnarok said:

I don't think him sitting out this year is indicative of love of the game in any way anymore than a guy sitting out a bowl game is indicative.

You'd have to ask him.

You can't make that claim that Devonta is mentally stronger as you have no evidence to support that claim.

I agree he is a fighter and a very hard worker.

I do hope Devonta can add some weight and stay healthy.  

And I think they are 1a and 1b this year no doubt.  Both are great prospects.  My issue is you claiming that one has undeniably superior mental makeup when there's no actual evidence to support that.  

My evidence is his production and development over four years of his career.  Anyone think of him as a Heisman Trophy winner when he was a FR in college?  Well he is now.  Also his body language on and off the field, how he interviews, how he interacts with his teammates and how he acts during the games after plays good or bad.  Those are also points of evidence to me in how competitive the kid actually is.  

 

Where was Chase in all of this, AWOL.  Yeah that does not help his case but sure he is a fine receiver as well.  Still hard not to slight him in any regard based on all the other top receivers who did decide to play this year.  Even take Jaylen Waddle in the championship game as an example.  The dude was literally limping around out there trying to help his team win.  Was that a great choice?  Sure probably not because he could have got hurt more, but the kid wanted to be out there and wanted to help his team win.  DeVonta I am sure would have played also if he had more use of his hand but clearly did not.  It is nice to see guys actually care at the college level about winning and playing in the present when now a days all that matters it seems for NFL prospects is when to sit out or opt out for your draft prep.  

 

Sage Surratt as well, the dude did not help his case by sitting this year.  Sure everyone has a different situation but it did not help him just like it did not help Chase.  Lucky for Chase he will still be a 1st rounder where Sage could have been but now really be surprised if he is.  

[Ragnarok]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

My evidence is his production and development over four years of his career.  Anyone think of him as a Heisman Trophy winner when he was a FR in college?  Well he is now.  Also his body language on and off the field, how he interviews, how he interacts with his teammates and how he acts during the games after plays good or bad.  Those are also points of evidence to me in how competitive the kid actually is.  

 

Where was Chase in all of this, AWOL.  Yeah that does not help his case but sure he is a fine receiver as well.  Still hard not to slight him in any regard based on all the other top receivers who did decide to play this year.  Even take Jaylen Waddle in the championship game as an example.  The dude was literally limping around out there trying to help his team win.  Was that a great choice?  Sure probably not because he could have got hurt more, but the kid wanted to be out there and wanted to help his team win.  DeVonta I am sure would have played also if he had more use of his hand but clearly did not.  It is nice to see guys actually care at the college level about winning and playing in the present when now a days all that matters it seems for NFL prospects is when to sit out or opt out for your draft prep.  

 

Sage Surratt as well, the dude did not help his case by sitting this year.  Sure everyone has a different situation but it did not help him just like it did not help Chase.  Lucky for Chase he will still be a 1st rounder where Sage could have been but now really be surprised if he is.  

I'll put it this way.  I think you can make valid points to show that Devonta is this or that.  But I don't think you can make valid points to say that Chase isn't any of those things as well.

[Ozzy]

8 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

I'll put it this way.  I think you can make valid points to show that Devonta is this or that.  But I don't think you can make valid points to say that Chase isn't any of those things as well.

What is easier, going through a season with COVID-19 restrictions, winning a Heisman trophy and winning the National Championship, or sitting at home preparing for a combine working on your 40 time since you were the #1 rated WR in the 2021 class potentially?  Who is the harder worker in those two scenarios?  One of those paths is not that difficult, the other is wildly difficult.  

 

When Chase is AWOL this season, yeah hard to say many positives about that.  So again I say he better burn it up in the 40 or something, because if not what the hell where you doing this entire time?  Actions do speak louder than words, Smith's actions speak volumes.  

 

 

[Ragnarok]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

What is easier, going through a season with COVID-19 restrictions, winning a Heisman trophy and winning the National Championship, or sitting at home preparing for a combine working on your 40 time since you were the #1 rated WR in the 2021 class potentially?  Who is the harder worker in those two scenarios?  One of those paths is not that difficult, the other is wildly difficult.  

When Chase is AWOL this season, yeah hard to say many positives about that.  So again I say he better burn it up in the 40 or something, because if not what the hell where you doing this entire time?  Actions do speak louder than words, Smith's actions speak volumes.  

Winning a National Championship at Alabama is easier.  

And you act like Chase was just sitting at home doing a few 40s here and there.  

There's nothing to back up the claim that Chase doesn't have these intangibles at the same level as Devonta.

[MrOaktown_56]

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I do consider DeVonta Smith a better prospect than Amari Cooper.

 

Devonta is a better competitor, works harder and is fundamentally as rock solid as you can get.  His worth ethic and desire to improve his craft is not going to stop once he gets to the NFL.  He is already a professional in college and prepares as a professional, once he is literally a NFL player that will only get better.  Sure he is thin but he does not have some awful injury history, he can get separation and if he runs a 4.4 40 there is not many questions about his game really.  Only one really is true deep speed, sure size matters but last time I checked being in good shape and being able to run constantly is wildly important and he has the frame for that and the muscle type for that.  He can go up and get the football, has great hands, runs great routes and out competes most he goes up against.  He has no problem taking contact or getting away from defenders after the catch either.

 

The dude is a fighter, has been called the most competitive player on the team at Alabama and is a true leader of that team.  Chase, well you cannot really say that about him, he sat out this year because guess what his QB sucked and it probably was going to make him look bad along with his team which was clearly not as good as last year.  DeVonta Smith did not know Mac Jones was going to be as good as he was this year, but he still went out there and competed, in doing so only won the Heisman trophy and a National Championship.  Not bad for a guy who could have also just sat out the season.  

I mean agree to disagree. Amari was a physical specimen coming out of bama who could separate and produced at a very high level like Smith.

I respect your take, but I'm sticking to my guns here.

[MrOaktown_56]

Also being a hard worker doesn't change the fact that he's tiny. That has to be considered a concern on some level. Even the staunchest Smith supporter can admit that.

[sammymvpknight]

One guy opted out, another guy was one of the most impressive college WRs in history. Chase isn't even close to a bust-free prospect. I honestly don't understand the intense love by the consensus. 

[Ozzy]

22 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Also being a hard worker doesn't change the fact that he's tiny. That has to be considered a concern on some level. Even the staunchest Smith supporter can admit that.

There is a difference between tiny and thin, Marquise Brown is tiny, DeVonta Smith is thin.  He has big hands and big feet I would say.  But sure disregard his ability because he is a little wiry. 

 

DeVonta based on his build most likely has a lot of slow twitch muscle fiber, which means he does not have as much power as some guys but can go longer and harder than the short burst explosive guy can go.  Does not fatigue as quickly and there are more than just a few receivers who have proven to be absolutely great with that same type of build.  

Just like Kevin Garnett, some ripped on because he was so thin, he was so thin...  The dude could never do anything about it ever, he could work out and lift weights constantly and he would never look like some hulk because he has mostly type I muscle fibers, which allowed him to play with great energy, not get tired and run constantly when and some thicker stronger guys could not.  Only thing that would change that I believe is steroids, some guys just simply cannot gain mass like that.

DeVonta Smith is the same way I assume, he is not lazy because he is thin, he is not some bad worker because he is some not jacked up version of DK Metcalf.  It is just a different build, and in the wide open pass happy NFL of today I have no problem with thin receivers who can run great routes, can run at a high level of a longer time, have consistent hands and fight like hell working to improve every single day.  

 

 

PS Amari Cooper was never the leader or the competitor DeVonta Smith was this past season, Amari was good but he was obviously never that damn good.  And when given more opportunities DeVonta only got better and when Waddle went down he should have tanked it and got shut down by all the double coverage.  Yeah that did not happen, why, because well he out worked his opponents on a game by game basis and got ******* open.  It is like he willed his way to get open through desire, preparation and straight out effort.  

 

39 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Winning a National Championship at Alabama is easier.  

And you act like Chase was just sitting at home doing a few 40s here and there.  

There's nothing to back up the claim that Chase doesn't have these intangibles at the same level as Devonta.

Back it up?  No I cannot give you stats on what I see and how I read his body language and read Chase's.  So if a stat is what you want yeah I cannot give you that.  And sure Chase is not just sitting at home doing a few 40s only, but then again, what the hell did he do this entire time?  Study NFL playbooks?  I doubt it, and there is only so much draft prep work one can do, and who were these corners he was going up against week in and week out?  Guys who were cut from the NFL?  I have no idea but at least with DeVonta you know exactly what he has done over the past few months and he has a few accomplishments to show it.    

[Ragnarok]

Just now, Ozzy said:

Back it up?  No I cannot give you stats on what I see and how I read his body language and read Chase's.  So if a stat is what you want yeah I cannot give you that.  And sure Chase is not just sitting at home doing a few 40s only, but then again, what the hell did he do this entire time?  Study NFL playbooks?  I doubt it, and there is only so much draft prep work one can do, and who were these corners he was going up against week in and week out?  Guys who were cut from the NFL?  I have no idea but at least with DeVonta you know exactly what he has done over the past few months and he has a few accomplishments to show it.    

If you have something on Chase's body language, that could be interesting.  

We don't know what he was doing.  

And again, not knocking Devonta at all.  I do think he will hold up just fine in the NFL.  I just don't think you can say Chase doesn't have all the same intangibles.

[OnlyGlove]

Ruggs is 20 pounds heavier and every time he gets tackled in the nfl he seems to be took out for the rest of the game.

I'd fear for Smiths durability if he plays at 160. 

 

Chase looked like Julio last year.  Think he's a safer pick and also has massive amount of upside 

[MrOaktown_56]

57 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

There is a difference between tiny and thin, Marquise Brown is tiny, DeVonta Smith is thin.  He has big hands and big feet I would say.  But sure disregard his ability because he is a little wiry. 

DeVonta based on his build most likely has a lot of slow twitch muscle fiber, which means he does not have as much power as some guys but can go longer and harder than the short burst explosive guy can go.  Does not fatigue as quickly and there are more than just a few receivers who have proven to be absolutely great with that same type of build.  

Just like Kevin Garnett, some ripped on because he was so thin, he was so thin...  The dude could never do anything about it ever, he could work out and lift weights constantly and he would never look like some hulk because he has mostly type I muscle fibers, which allowed him to play with great energy, not get tired and run constantly when and some thicker stronger guys could not.  Only thing that would change that I believe is steroids, some guys just simply cannot gain mass like that.

DeVonta Smith is the same way I assume, he is not lazy because he is thin, he is not some bad worker because he is some not jacked up version of DK Metcalf.  It is just a different build, and in the wide open pass happy NFL of today I have no problem with thin receivers who can run great routes, can run at a high level of a longer time, have consistent hands and fight like hell working to improve every single day.  

PS Amari Cooper was never the leader or the competitor DeVonta Smith was this past season, Amari was good but he was obviously never that damn good.  And when given more opportunities DeVonta only got better and when Waddle went down he should have tanked it and got shut down by all the double coverage.  Yeah that did not happen, why, because well he out worked his opponents on a game by game basis and got ******* open.  It is like he willed his way to get open through desire, preparation and straight out effort.  

 

Back it up?  No I cannot give you stats on what I see and how I read his body language and read Chase's.  So if a stat is what you want yeah I cannot give you that.  And sure Chase is not just sitting at home doing a few 40s only, but then again, what the hell did he do this entire time?  Study NFL playbooks?  I doubt it, and there is only so much draft prep work one can do, and who were these corners he was going up against week in and week out?  Guys who were cut from the NFL?  I have no idea but at least with DeVonta you know exactly what he has done over the past few months and he has a few accomplishments to show it.    

Can you explain to me what being a leader or competitor has to do with Smith as a draft prospect?

Marquise brown is 3 inches shorter than Smith and is still 10 pounds heavier. Smith is skinny as hell. And doesn't look like he'll break tackles in the NFL or be able to bully DB's in that way. 

[Ozzy]

Just now, MrOaktown_56 said:

Can you explain to me what being a leader or competitor has to do with Smith as a draft prospect?

Marquise brown is 3 inches shorter than Smith and is still 10 pounds heavier. Smith is skinny as hell. And doesn't look like he'll break tackles in the NFL or be able to bully DB's in that way. 

Can you explain to me how being a leader or a competitor has nothing to do with Smith as a draft prospect?  If you honestly believe how competitive a player is and how good of a leader he is (generally speaking his football character) is not important, then well I have nothing else to discuss with you then because that is flat out insane to me.  Yeah how a person works matters in how good they will be now and in the future.  Competitiveness is absolutely connected to ones work ethic and drive.  

 

28 minutes ago, OnlyGlove said:

Ruggs is 20 pounds heavier and every time he gets tackled in the nfl he seems to be took out for the rest of the game.

I'd fear for Smiths durability if he plays at 160. 

 

Chase looked like Julio last year.  Think he's a safer pick and also has massive amount of upside 

Henry Ruggs had a pretty decent injury history in college and yeah I agree, even in college honestly it felt like he went down like a ton of bricks and he was knocked out of the game or seemed like he was more than once.  Ruggs III had a right leg injury, bruised ribs and a concussion in college then Knee Strain, and hamstring injury and another concussion in the NFL just this season which is pretty bad for his first year.  

 

DeVonta Smith does not have this long injury history at all.  His biggest injury is what that finger one he had in the National Championship the last game he played in his college career?   And it is not to his head or his legs and should be able to be fully recovered from.  Sure he could get hurt because he is thin but same could be said for all the other successful receivers in the NFL who are thin.

 

As if DeVonta Smith ate like a pig, put on 20 pounds that would make him a better receiver?   And Chase is not Julio Jones who is 6-3 220 pounds with a 4.3 40 and a 38+" vert, Chase is what 6-0 210?   More like a DJ Moore type or Deebo Samuel, he is not Julio Jones.  

 

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

If you have something on Chase's body language, that could be interesting.  

We don't know what he was doing.  

And again, not knocking Devonta at all.  I do think he will hold up just fine in the NFL.  I just don't think you can say Chase doesn't have all the same intangibles.

It does seem like Chase is a little less serious than DeVonta Smith when listening to interviews.  Chase was not as vocal with his teammates as DeVonta Smith was and Chase did not seem to react as much on the field during a play or after a play.  He ripped teams apart in terms of big plays but so did almost everyone on that offense for LSU.  Is Chase going to be as good as Justin Jefferson was this year in the NFL?  That would be a surprise, because honestly Jefferson was the better route runner of the two, and the less physically gifted of the two but arguably the more competitive and vocal player on the field.  Did not get near the attention Chase got but had close to the same stats Chase did, had way more catches and close to the same amount of TDs.  Sure not as many big plays granted but was more consistent especially if one looks at the 2018 season.  Would have been nice to see Chase in this LSU offense this year and see what he could do without Jefferson and Burrow around.  But of course that did not happen.

Chase seems to be the type when things go bad he would blame those around him for not getting him his potentially.  DeVonta is the type where if things are not going good, he would turn it to himself and see what he can do to make himself better and make the team better overall not blame those around him.  And if DeVonta was not getting the ball I feel he would be less of a problem than Chase if he was not getting the football.  Still in their football life no way Chase had it harder than DeVonta did and that difficulty DeVonta had just for straight up playing time is crazy.  Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle, most receivers would have transferred year one after seeing all those guys in the same receiver room.  Hell DeVonta Smith's freshman year at Alabama 2017 they had Calvin Ridley, Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Cam Sims, Robert Foster and Tyrell Shavers.  He did not leave with all that talent around him, he fought his way to becoming the most prolific SEC receiver of all time, mind you doing so with a freshman season having only 160 yards total.

Would be great to know exactly how Chase spent his day over these last few months but that will obviously never come out and be shown or told.