JBURGE Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, incognito_man said: There has been one legitimate point regarding a potential delta between Rodgers and Love draft values. @JBURGE brought up the rookie cap. It seems plausible to me that this outside event created a shift in perceived value of some positions (namely that QBs are higher value after the cap and are drafted earlier). This seems like a point that evidence could support (or contradict) that would shed some light on the debate. Every other "point" so far has simply been an input into the global "value calculator" and is already represented fully by the results of draft position. I don't want to do too much research, but this is the gist.... 2004 cap $80M 2005 cap $85M 2006 cap $102M 2004 Eli contract (1st) - 6/$45M (9% of cap by AAV) 2004 Rivers contract (4th) - 6/$40.5M 2004 Larry Fitz (3rd) 6/$60M (whew) 2004 Sean Taylor (5th) - 7/$18M 2004 Roy Williams (7th) - 5/$15.7M 2004 Dunta Robinson (10th) - 5/$10.6M 2004 Ben Roethlisberger (11th) - 6/$20m 2005 Alex Smith (1st)- 6/$53M (10.3% of cap by AAV) 2005 Ronnie Brown (2nd) - 6/$26M 2005 Braylon Edwards (3rd) 5/$33M 2005 Aaron Rodgers (24th) - 5/$7.7M (1.8% of cap by AAV) 2006 Vince Young (3rd) - 6/$58M (9.4% of cap by AAV) _________________________________________________ 2020 cap $198M 2020 Joe Burrow - 4/$36M (4.5% of cap on AAV) 2020 Jordan Love (26th) - 4/$12m (1.5% of cap by AAV) What's interesting is Big Ben in 2004. Even at 11 he was getting a way bigger contract than players who went 5th 7th and 10th. So this kind of shows why it may not have made sense for a team to invest in Rodgers in say the top 15. After that tho idk I wasn't watching the NFL in 2005 so I can't tell you what teams wanted QBs or not but I know they covered it in the NFL video where Bill Polian speaks about what teams needed or didnt need QBs. It is short and a good watch. This is the video I think idk I'm at work and YouTube on my phone is telling me I have watched this. I'm not using data to watch it now to confirm lol Edited April 1, 2021 by JBURGE 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 2 hours ago, incognito_man said: Bingo. And more generally, any ranking/mock draft etc. from which people base their perceived player value. This is what lands us in these arguments in the first place: people don't like having their pre-conceived notions challenged. @Leader read some basic opinion (likely from a demonstrably non-expert) about Gary's "rank". He now is hitched to that and cannot accept the reality that Gary ACTUALLY had an NFL value different from the baseless value he believes. And instead of adjusting his opinion to fit reality, he argues that reality is wrong and everything should conform to his worldview instead. And people think I have an ego here lol We're done here. Clearly we disagree and to continue the discussion equates to nothing more than trolling. Its not necessary. Moving on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Leader said: We're done here. Clearly we disagree and to continue the discussion equates to nothing more than trolling. Its not necessary. Moving on. Similarly, this is my post to state that I have also decided we are moving on and I'm posting it so everyone knows that I am moving on because that's more alpha than just moving on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: Similarly, this is my post to state that I have also decided we are moving on and I'm posting it so everyone knows that I am moving on because that's more alpha than just moving on. This is my post to state I haven't moved on and I'm not planning to because nothing is more alpha than just beating a dead horse into the dust from whence it came. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 To actually be on topic instead of just 💩 posting as is my nature, anyone else think this 2021 Packers' WR corps looks potentially legit? 2022 is a real horrifying empty cupboard as it stands today, but 2021? I realize we all had the same hopes for 2020, but I think there's a better chance of it actually coming together. D. Adams/Funchess/Lazard/MVS/EQ is a hell of a five up, and unlike 2020 at least SOME combo of Funchess/Lazard/EQ should presumably be alive enough to actually play the big slot in all 16 games this season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 9 minutes ago, MrBobGray said: To actually be on topic instead of just 💩 posting as is my nature, anyone else think this 2021 Packers' WR corps looks potentially legit? 2022 is a real horrifying empty cupboard as it stands today, but 2021? I realize we all had the same hopes for 2020, but I think there's a better chance of it actually coming together. D. Adams/Funchess/Lazard/MVS/EQ is a hell of a five up, and unlike 2020 at least SOME combo of Funchess/Lazard/EQ should presumably be alive enough to actually play the big slot in all 16 games this season. That crew worked well enough to have the #1 scoring offense last year, so yah, look fine to me. The back end is going to look better after the draft, too. It's going to be interesting to see ESB vs. Funchess. I don't think there is room on the roster for both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 19 minutes ago, vegas492 said: That crew worked well enough to have the #1 scoring offense last year, so yah, look fine to me. The back end is going to look better after the draft, too. It's going to be interesting to see ESB vs. Funchess. I don't think there is room on the roster for both of them. In almost any other case I could see this argument, but I'd be surprised if it played out that way for this 2021 Packers team. Both of those guys are on the last year of their contract and they're both cheap; gives you a chance to see both of them in a contract year without needing to invest, and it's unlikely you'll get anything close to the same value from an outside FA/rookie. Funchess has a lot of actual game experience and EQ costs you nothing and at least knows the offense inside and out. Granted you probably want to roster some guys who will actually be around next year too, but just think it's hard to give up the value you get from those two in a "nominally win now" year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, vegas492 said: That crew worked well enough to have the #1 scoring offense last year, so yah, look fine to me. The back end is going to look better after the draft, too. It's going to be interesting to see ESB vs. Funchess. I don't think there is room on the roster for both of them. IMO, it's really not close. Despite 2 years off, Funchess is the much better player. Not sure what people keep seeing in EQ. The only reason why he hasn't been declared a disappointment is because he was a 6th round pick so there was no expectation to begin with. Just about every opportunity the guy had to make a big play last season, he failed (see Vikings loss, see Bucs 2pt conversion). I'm more than ready to move on from him. I'm fine with a crew that is composed of Adams/MVS/Lazard/Funchess/top 100 draft pick. That would be my top 5 with the 6th man ideally being a guy with PR capabilities. Edited April 1, 2021 by packfanfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 27 minutes ago, packfanfb said: IMO, it's really not close. Despite 2 years off, Funchess is the much better player. Not sure what people keep seeing in EQ. The only reason why he hasn't been declared a disappointment is because he was a 6th round pick so there was no expectation to begin with. Just about every opportunity the guy had to make a big play last season, he failed (see Vikings loss, see Bucs 2pt conversion). I'm more than ready to move on from him. I'm fine with a crew that is composed of Adams/MVS/Lazard/Funchess/top 100 draft pick. That would be my top 5 with the 6th man ideally being a guy with PR capabilities. EQ had a good rookie season. Showed promise. Missed all of year 2 due to injury. Never got it going in year 3. Thats EQs snopsis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Leader said: EQ had a good rookie season. Showed promise. Missed all of year 2 due to injury. Never got it going in year 3. Thats EQs snopsis. He never got going because he's really not good. He's a guy who caught a few balls late in his rookie year and people expected a jump, which never came, whether due to injury or otherwise. And that's okay, again, the guy was a 6th round draft pick. If the Packers choose to take a Day 2 WR (or even a high Day 3 WR), EQ is most likely the odd man out because he doesn't even offer ST value. Edited April 1, 2021 by packfanfb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoremore Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Yah haven't seen much from EQ. Hopefully he dedicates himself in the offseason or he might not make the roster. Hasn't shown much to date. We do need a PR/KR on this roster. It's been a weakness for far too long. Somebody in the mold of swervin ervin. Feel we have much bigger needs on the roster to worry about than WR but if a top wideout drops it wouldn't surprise me if we take one at #29. Prefer DT OT or CB but BPA is BPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 11 minutes ago, packfanfb said: He never got going because he's really not good. He's a guy who caught a few balls late in his rookie year and people expected a jump, which never came, whether due to injury or otherwise. And that's okay, again, the guy was a 6th round draft pick. If the Packers choose to take a Day 2 WR (or even a high Day 3 WR), EQ is most likely the odd man out because he doesn't even offer ST value. He had a decent rookie year. Something to build on. It didnt happen last year. You say its because he's no good and he just got lucky (or something....not putting words into your mouth). I remain hopeful. Think it more than a fluke. He needs to bring it. Whatever he's got, it needs to show up. My take is I want the best 5-6 guys on this years active roster. Could he be the "odd man out?" Sure....but thats what TC/PS this year will be for: make a case to stick. He does play Special Teams btw. He doesnt return anything....if that was the focus of your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 5 hours ago, vegas492 said: It's going to be interesting to see ESB vs. Funchess. I don't think there is room on the roster for both of them. I am going to be a little bummed if Funches looks to be on the same level as EQ in camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Punting Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Mazrimiv said: I am going to be a little bummed if Funches looks to be on the same level as EQ in camp. Don't worry. Based on their respective body's of work, Funchess is clearly better than ESB. He's also clearly better than Lazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 7 hours ago, packfanfb said: He never got going because he's really not good. He's a guy who caught a few balls late in his rookie year and people expected a jump, which never came, whether due to injury or otherwise. And that's okay, again, the guy was a 6th round draft pick. If the Packers choose to take a Day 2 WR (or even a high Day 3 WR), EQ is most likely the odd man out because he doesn't even offer ST value. Do we really need to relive sophomore year of Davante Adams? I mean, is that really the ship you want to sink on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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