2021 GB Roster & Free Agents

[spilltray]

Free agency is the price you pay for missing on draft picks. If you are hitting, you just have more extensions and don't have the cap space.

[TransientTexan]

50 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

LOL ... Gute signed more in 1 year than TT did in 10.  Let's face it, TT was a draft and develop guy - period.  Nothing wrong with that at all but he didn't fill any holes when those draft picks didn't pan out.  No myth .. just what it was.

Gute is a draft and develop guy- period. That is not mutually exclusive with signing FA’s when the failures of recent draft classes leave you with extra money to spend.

Why didn’t Gute sign 4 more major FA’s in 2020? His 2020 signings were no different than the small M.Wilkerson’s and A.Brooks’ signings of the TT years. Did Gute suddenly become “afraid” of FA’s? No. Maybe he was satisfied having already built a proven SB-Champ roster...Oh wait. Nope that’s not it either. Draft and FA are 2 sides of the same coin.

Gute started out as GM with a ton of extra FA money to spend because #1, the expiring 2015 GB draft class was a dud, and #2, his start coincided with the year lots of GB’s players that were currently on their 2nd contracts happened to be expiring (Matthews,Cobb), or were in their 4th contract-year (Daniels), making them easily cuttable. TT rarely ever handed-out 3rd contracts. And he did not carry over loads of unused cap space from year-to-year. Do you seriously think TT would not have signed FA’s that year if he was still GM?

If he had failures, it was in case-by-case talent evaluation at the end (M.Bennett, C.Hayward,etc). But that doesn’t give fans as much comfort in their scapegoating, so they try to pretend like it was due to some strategic flaw rather than a different flaw that they would’ve needed their own talent-eye to foresee before the benefit of hindsight. 

When it came time to re-sign the 2011 draft class, there weren’t many in-house hits, so there was extra money to spend and TT brought in Peppers to address pass-rush holes. How come he wasn’t “afraid” to sign that FA? How many times did he sign FA TE’s to try and fill  the TE hole? That proves your narrative is a false. 
 

As to whether Gute is actually different, we will only know once he has a draft class with many hits whose rookie deals expire. 

[coachbuns]

Love your passion ... I'll take Gute over TT though. 

[AlexGreen#20]

43 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Love your passion ... I'll take Gute over TT though. 

Your recency bias is showing. The Aaron Rodgers pick alone vaults TT far over Gutekunst as of now. 

[coachbuns]

11 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Your recency bias is showing. The Aaron Rodgers pick alone vaults TT far over Gutekunst as of now. 

Probably true ...  I'm in the world of what have you done for me lately .. to old to reminisce from years ago.   Will agree on Rodgers but that's as of now and not sure it's by that much.  TT didn't do enough to get Rodgers more rings in all those years.  

[MacReady]

Thompson “won” two, maybe three Super Bowls with his moves.  McCarthy’s Capers loyalty prevented that from being realized.

Thompson picked Hyde and Heyward. Capers turned Hyde and Heyward into subpar players who were all-pro away from Capers.

Thompson has another HOF draft pick without injuries and the best receiving threat TE since... Jackson?  Also injuries.

Peppers move got another Super Bowl without crippling the cap if not for terrible special teams coaching in The Great Sorrow.  Again, McCarthy.

There were very very few better GMs than Thompson as far as evaluating draft talent.

Gute is good, but Thompson was better.

I’m only watching football for Jaire and Savage.  I only care about Hall of Fame defensive back careers.  Super Bowl hopes are dead to me.

[coachbuns]

14 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Thompson “won” two, maybe three Super Bowls with his moves.  McCarthy’s Capers loyalty prevented that from being realized.

Thompson picked Hyde and Heyward. Capers turned Hyde and Heyward into subpar players who were all-pro away from Capers.

Thompson has another HOF draft pick without injuries and the best receiving threat TE since... Jackson?  Also injuries.

Peppers move got another Super Bowl without crippling the cap if not for terrible special teams coaching in The Great Sorrow.  Again, McCarthy.

There were very very few better GMs than Thompson as far as evaluating draft talent.

Gute is good, but Thompson was better.

I’m only watching football for Jaire and Savage.  I only care about Hall of Fame defensive back careers.  Super Bowl hopes are dead to me.

That's to bad  ... still some good football to be played.  Agree that TT was good talent evaluator and Gute in his short time also.   That being said, in TT last few years he really slipped and put GB into a tough spot that Gute had to rectify.  TT in his early/mid years was indeed good and hope Gute will also show those traits. 

[spilltray]

I don't even think you can put it ALL on TT slipping later in his tenure as GM either though. A couple of those years were pretty bad classes league wide, really. It's some of both but figuring out how much either way is impossible. 

[FinneasGage]

40 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Heyward.

classic 

[TransientTexan]

2 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Love your passion ... I'll take Gute over TT though. 

That’s really beside the point. My argument isn’t which one is better. Just that the differences in their processes are wildly exaggerated when all factors are taken into account. 
 

and if any SB-winning gm’s are going to be talked about dismissively, at least have it be based on legitimate reasons and not on caricatures. 

[TransientTexan]

1 hour ago, coachbuns said:

That's to bad  ... still some good football to be played.  Agree that TT was good talent evaluator and Gute in his short time also.   That being said, in TT last few years he really slipped and put GB into a tough spot that Gute had to rectify.  TT in his early/mid years was indeed good and hope Gute will also show those traits. 

Tough spot? With boatloads of cap space & the highest draft pick the team had had in 9 years? And a HoF QB, and a good handful of PB’ers? There have been a lot worse situations for a gm to step into. 
 

Gute has done some good things, but he hasn’t even yet proven he can get great draft classes when picking at the end of the draft order. He had almost as much draft capital in his first 2 seasons as TT had in his last 4. 

[ThatJerkDave]

3 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Love your passion ... I'll take Gute over TT though. 

Well, TT is dead, so that isn't a bold choice.

 

Gute has a long way to go to fill TT's shoes.  In TT's first two years he drafted:  Aaron Rodgers, Nick Collins, Brady Poppinga, AJ Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.  He also signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett.  

[ThatJerkDave]

8 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

Gute is a draft and develop guy- period. That is not mutually exclusive with signing FA’s when the failures of recent draft classes leave you with extra money to spend.

Why didn’t Gute sign 4 more major FA’s in 2020? His 2020 signings were no different than the small M.Wilkerson’s and A.Brooks’ signings of the TT years. Did Gute suddenly become “afraid” of FA’s? No. Maybe he was satisfied having already built a proven SB-Champ roster...Oh wait. Nope that’s not it either. Draft and FA are 2 sides of the same coin.

Gute started out as GM with a ton of extra FA money to spend because #1, the expiring 2015 GB draft class was a dud, and #2, his start coincided with the year lots of GB’s players that were currently on their 2nd contracts happened to be expiring (Matthews,Cobb), or were in their 4th contract-year (Daniels), making them easily cuttable. TT rarely ever handed-out 3rd contracts. And he did not carry over loads of unused cap space from year-to-year. Do you seriously think TT would not have signed FA’s that year if he was still GM?

If he had failures, it was in case-by-case talent evaluation at the end (M.Bennett, C.Hayward,etc). But that doesn’t give fans as much comfort in their scapegoating, so they try to pretend like it was due to some strategic flaw rather than a different flaw that they would’ve needed their own talent-eye to foresee before the benefit of hindsight. 

When it came time to re-sign the 2011 draft class, there weren’t many in-house hits, so there was extra money to spend and TT brought in Peppers to address pass-rush holes. How come he wasn’t “afraid” to sign that FA? How many times did he sign FA TE’s to try and fill  the TE hole? That proves your narrative is a false. 
 

As to whether Gute is actually different, we will only know once he has a draft class with many hits whose rookie deals expire. 

TT also had a pretty big 2006 FA class of Woodson, Pickett, Marquand Manuel, Ben Taylor, and Marc Boerighter.  Woodson and Pickett were the obvious stars.  But Manuel was a reasonably hot commodity as a FA.  Taylor and Boerighter filled immediate needs in the offseason, though Boerighter was cut and Taylor was beaten out by Brady Poppinga.  And if you want to see bad WRs, look for the 2006 Packers, after trading Javon Walker and before drafting Greg Jennings... Yuck!

Why did TT spend in free agency? Because he had money after cleaning up a load of bad contracts from the Sherman regime.  

[coachbuns]

10 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Well, TT is dead, so that isn't a bold choice.

 

Gute has a long way to go to fill TT's shoes.  In TT's first two years he drafted:  Aaron Rodgers, Nick Collins, Brady Poppinga, AJ Hawk, Daryn Colledge, and Greg Jennings.  He also signed Charles Woodson and Ryan Pickett.  

As I said before, TT knew talent and drafted it .... early in his career.  His last few years with GB he was on a definite downward spiral.  All told he did a good job, not disputing that a bit.  That being said, Gute has done a decent job handling his duties and glad we had both.

[pgwingman]

On 3/2/2021 at 7:10 AM, AlexGreen#20 said:

A Rodgers restructure/extension is either incoming or means that the team isn't willing to commit to him long term. If it's the former, it will lower the cap number. If it's the latter, this may be his last year.

Do you see this as a realistic option? Can GB meet the cap number without touching Rodgers deal?

IMO, I'd love to see one more strong run at a Super Bowl, but after this season you'd have to assume that the team is spent and it's time to get started rebuilding.