Deshaun Watson officially requests a trade

[skhurst0398]

I’m going to put this right here for you...now, debate!

[Tetsujin]

I wonder if he would agree to a restructuring to be traded. Maybe add another year at 20M and spread out the total value a little more.

[Phinsesq]

Not interested I am happy with where Miami is in building a foundation, stick with Tua. If I was forced to pick from one of the apparently many options out there I'd take Stafford over Watson, Contract is much friendlier, and will not require the leveraging of our future to bring him in. If Houston wishes to use Miami as leverage causing the Jets give up way too much for him, all the better. 

[Emerica]

Deshaun 100% makes us a SB contender, so yes I'm very interested. I am also very interested in staying the course with Tua and see how things unfold. Either way we are in a great spot. Good cap space, lots of picks, lots of talent, good coaching staff.

On another note, I don't think i've seen it on here but I don't understand the logic from some Dolphins fans thinking being interested in Watson is a slight on Tua. End of the day, Deshaun today is what we hope Tua becomes in the best case scenario. Anyone remember the boat and mystery box scene in Family Guy? Deshaun is the boat, Tua is the mystery box. 

 

 

Its not every day a top-5 QB just beginning his prime is available, so I sure would hope Grier investigates. Even if we do have to part ways with multiple first rounds picks +, we have a lot of capital and we've had loads of picks just this past draft, we've got a front office who has shown they can find gems in later rounds, a coaching staff that has shown they can develop players and we will always be a top FA destination. We are trading for a proven commodity at a position we've been trying to fill for 2 decades. Picks are just picks, you have to hit on them too. Add to the fact that we were the youngest team in the league, I don't agree with the mortgaging the future comments. 

If the bidding gets astronomical, which it certainly will, we are in a great spot to just move on and stay the course.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Emerica

[Tetsujin]

What about a couple trade backs to get high picks for 2022, then offer those and limit the 2021 resources we’d have to give up. We’d should have stocked up by the roster after this draf/FA period. I’d also want to restructure the contract.

[skhurst0398]

 

4 hours ago, Phinsesq said:

Not interested I am happy with where Miami is in building a foundation, stick with Tua. If I was forced to pick from one of the apparently many options out there I'd take Stafford over Watson, Contract is much friendlier, and will not require the leveraging of our future to bring him in. If Houston wishes to use Miami as leverage causing the Jets give up way too much for him, all the better. 

how does trading for a 25 year old top 5 quarterback and adding him to a playoff contending team leverage the future? HE IS THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE!! As @Emericasays, he is what you can only hope Tua turns out to be. Except you don’t have to hope; it’s already realized. This organization has enough draft ammunition and cap space to have your cake and eat it too. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by skhurst0398

[Phinsesq]

17 minutes ago, skhurst0398 said:

How does t

how does trading for a 25 year old top 5 quarterback and adding him to a playoff contending team leverage the future? HE IS THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE!! As @Emericasays, he is what you can only hope Tua turns out to be. Except you don’t have to hope; it’s already realized. This organization has enough draft ammunition and cap space to have your cake and eat it too. 

Cool we win the off season, its all about cost. Teams have been winning Superbowls without Watson for years. limited cap space to absorb his salary on top the trading picks to get him, where you can acquire talent on rookie contracts to build on. You get him for a "steal" hey I will listen, but I doubt it will be a "steal". If we can't put better offensive weapons around him then it does not matter, you take his salary you don't have FA money to make moves coupled with a lack of picks to take your best shot at top talent for how many years?. I am not saying he isn't good I am saying he is not worth the what I believe the cost will be. Whos to say in 3-4 seasons if we can't get a decent team around him he isn't saying "hey I want out of here?" The sentiment isn't unprecedented.  

[skhurst0398]

29 minutes ago, Phinsesq said:

Cool we win the off season, its all about cost. Teams have been winning Superbowls without Watson for years. limited cap space to absorb his salary on top the trading picks to get him, where you can acquire talent on rookie contracts to build on. You get him for a "steal" hey I will listen, but I doubt it will be a "steal". If we can't put better offensive weapons around him then it does not matter, you take his salary you don't have FA money to make moves coupled with a lack of picks to take your best shot at top talent for how many years?. I am not saying he isn't good I am saying he is not worth the what I believe the cost will be. Whos to say in 3-4 seasons if we can't get a decent team around him he isn't saying "hey I want out of here?" The sentiment isn't unprecedented.  

I’m confused by this statement. But let me dissect just to make sure I’m understanding your points. By teams have been winning super bowls without Watson for years, you mean teams like Kansas City or New England who have/had Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes? This is a completely absurd point to make. And the Dolphins have a cache of picks this year to make a trade for Deshaun and continue to add to the talent level of the team. Even if it requires trading both first rounders this year, they still have two in the second round of a deep wide receiver class if they want to upgrade the playmaker positions. The thing that makes the least sense though is the latter part: Watson doesn’t have an issue with the talent level of the team so he’s quitting on them, he has a problem with ownership and the way the team is being operated and doesn’t want to be affiliated with the organization anymore as long as the current regime is running things. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by skhurst0398

[Phinsesq]

3 minutes ago, skhurst0398 said:

I’m confused by this statement. But let me dissect just to make sure I’m understanding your points. By teams have been winning super bowls without Watson for years, you mean teams like Kansas City or New England who have/had Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes? This is a completely absurd point to make. And the Dolphins have a cache of picks this year to make a trade for Deshaun and continue to add to the talent level of the team. Even if it requires trading both first rounders this year, they still have two in the second round of a deep wide receiver class if they want to upgrade the playmaker positions. The thing that makes the least sense though is the latter part: Watson doesn’t have an issue with the talent level of the team so he’s quitting on them, he has a problem with ownership and the way the team is being operated and doesn’t want to be affiliated with the organization anymore as long as the current regime is running things. 

You clearly miss the point, What I mean is this Watson is not the only QB who can presumably win a championship, teams have done it with "lesser" QBs like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco and even Eli Manning to a certain extent, (he is more talented than the others I listed.) 

You say "Even if it requires trading both first rounders this year"... I believe the idea they part with him for only 2, 1st round picks is a pipedream. Like I said if you get him for a steal, and 2 firsts in my opinion would be a steal. But I get the feeling people seem to think no matter what, no price is too big. You get Watson that cures everything wrong with this team. I'd love another true franchise quarterback. Tua may be him, but he doesn't have to be Watson. Circling back to my original premise that you misconstrued, franchise QBs are not required for a team to be successful. Marino and Rivers were great franchise QBs, being a franchise quarterback isn't enough. You better have a team around the player. You hamstring yourself with the cap and the draft(s) good luck. 

Watson has a problem with losing, and is tired of being on a losing team and doesn't see a change in that culture on the horizon. If Houston is in the play offs you think Watson is requesting a trade regardless of how the regime is running things? You can claim it isn't about the talent he is being surrounded with but you are fooling yourself if that isn't part of the equation as well, whether you chalk it up to the way the team is run or not. 

[TheKillerNacho]

wont happen, shouldn't happen. We have other threads on the subject, idk why we need another

[skhurst0398]

18 hours ago, Phinsesq said:

You clearly miss the point, What I mean is this Watson is not the only QB who can presumably win a championship, teams have done it with "lesser" QBs like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco and even Eli Manning to a certain extent, (he is more talented than the others I listed.) 

You say "Even if it requires trading both first rounders this year"... I believe the idea they part with him for only 2, 1st round picks is a pipedream. Like I said if you get him for a steal, and 2 firsts in my opinion would be a steal. But I get the feeling people seem to think no matter what, no price is too big. You get Watson that cures everything wrong with this team. I'd love another true franchise quarterback. Tua may be him, but he doesn't have to be Watson. Circling back to my original premise that you misconstrued, franchise QBs are not required for a team to be successful. Marino and Rivers were great franchise QBs, being a franchise quarterback isn't enough. You better have a team around the player. You hamstring yourself with the cap and the draft(s) good luck. 

Watson has a problem with losing, and is tired of being on a losing team and doesn't see a change in that culture on the horizon. If Houston is in the play offs you think Watson is requesting a trade regardless of how the regime is running things? You can claim it isn't about the talent he is being surrounded with but you are fooling yourself if that isn't part of the equation as well, whether you chalk it up to the way the team is run or not. 

You're right about it costing more than 2 first round picks. I meant they already have extra picks this year so it's not going to set the franchise back if they pull the trigger and leave the rest of the cupboards bare. Also, in an imagined trade for Watson, Tua is either included in the trade, lessening the burden of future compensation, or is traded in a separate transaction recuperating some of the cost. The loss is minimal in comparison to what they're getting back. What doesn't make sense to me though is your notion that they will have "a lack of picks to take the best shot at top talent" - trading for Watson eliminates the need to "take the best shot at top talent" BECAUSE HE IS TOP TALENT. 

While your original premise is certainly true that teams have done it for less, that's four teams in the last 20 years who won Super Bowls despite the quarterback play (I didn't include Eli because while I was never a fan, I think he ends up in the Hall of Fame). All the others had elite quarterbacks. Another thing all those lesser quarterback teams had in common: none of the them won another Super Bowl after those titles. Do you want the ability to compete for Championships every year or just one when all the stars align? 

Lastly, losing is a part of every single players decision but if the Texans were winning and making the playoffs, then the whole changes happening through out the organization probably wouldn't be happening. And yes, it's absolutely those running the organization and not the losing that's steering his decision to request a trade. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by skhurst0398

[Phinsesq]

13 minutes ago, skhurst0398 said:

You're right about it costing more than 2 first round picks. I meant they already have extra picks this year so it's not going to set the franchise back if they pull the trigger and leave the rest of the cupboards bare. Also, in an imagined trade for Watson, Tua is either included in the trade, lessening the burden of future compensation, or is traded in a separate transaction recuperating some of the cost. The loss is minimal in comparison to what they're getting back. What doesn't make sense to me though is your notion that they will have "a lack of picks to take the best shot at top talent" - trading for Watson eliminates the need to "take the best shot at top talent" BECAUSE HE IS TOP TALENT. 

While your original premise is certainly true that teams have done it for less, that's four teams in the last 20 years who won Super Bowls despite of the quarterback play (I didn't include Eli because while I was never a fan, I think he ends up in the Hall of Fame). All the others had elite quarterbacks. Another thing all those lesser quarterback teams had in common: none of the them won another Super Bowl after those titles. Do you want the ability to compete for Championships every year or just one when all the stars align? 

Lastly, losing is a part of every single players decision but if the Texans were winning and making the playoffs, then the whole changes happening through out the organization probably wouldn't be happening. And yes, it's absolutely those running the organization and not the losing that's steering his decision to request a trade. 

Again, it’s not about using picks on a QB, it’s about the talent on the team and utilizing picks to upgrade or replace talent lost in FA. Watson is not the only upgrade for this team. This isn’t like dropping Brady into the stacked Buccaneers.

As to what do all those lesser qb teams  had in common in not winning multiple titles(Eli not included), they have the same thing in common with Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Steve Young, Kurt Warner, and at least until next Sunday Patrick Mahomes. Heck Peyton won 2 but let’s be honest the 2nd came on the strength of the team around him. My goal is to see Miami win a Super Bowl then I’ll worry about multiples. For any team to win the Super Bowl always count on the stars having to align it’s not as simple who is the QB. I’m not saying Watson isn’t talented, my position has been and continues to be the cost in getting him, I think will be too high.

I watched all of Tuas games this season he showed me enough to believe Miami may have its franchise Qb on the roster, time will tell. But he is on the roster on a rookie deal with a lot of picks to build around him. They pushed for the playoffs last season on the strength of the defense(which still needs pieces). With an actual training camp and using picks and Free agency money on offensive weapons, o line, and LB, Miami is closer to the play offs than sinking its cap space and draft capital into a Qb and having all the same problems that plagued Miami last year. 

Bottom line is (presumably) neither you nor I, ultimately make the decision as to what Miami does or where Watson ends up and at what price. We clearly evaluate the cost/ benefit of Watson differently. If he comes to Miami and Miami wins a championship you can say “I told you so” and I’ll gladly eat crow. But short of Watson proving me wrong words alone are not going to convince me it’s not a bad move for Miami, for the reasons previously stated.

[Tetsujin]

Trade back from 3 to get a 2022 1st around pick. 
 

Give HOU one of our 1st in 2021, Tua, then 2 1sts in 2022 (or replace a pick with X Howard if he insists on being paid way more)

I’m also fine with not making a move, but I’d rather pull off the above trade than have Watson play for the NYJ.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Tetsujin

[Tetsujin]

If HOU is responsible for all of DW’s signing bonus money, he’s very affordable, especially with Tua and future high draft picks offsetting his salary. Tua is projected to make 7m, 8m, and 9m over the next three years with very small signing bonuses. 
 

DWs salary

21’  10.5M

22’  35M

23’ 20M + 17M roster bonus

24’ 32M

25’ 32M

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Tetsujin

[Deadeye]

I don't want Watson, not at the price they are asking.  Yes he's a great QB, but football is the ultimate team sport.  We have lots of picks, and lots of holes to fill, and since Tua shows promise, there is no need to move on from him.  If it wasn't 3 first rounders (or more) I'd be interested.  But given our situation that's too many picks considering that we might very well have a franchise QB already on the roster.