dll2000 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 All I will say about cap is NFL can pay players a LOT more and still make a profit. And cap is mostly myth. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 minute ago, abstract_thought said: New Orleans just went through cap hell this offseason. Tampa is selling out to win another Super Bowl. You cannot kick it into the future forever. If that were the case, the Bears wouldn't have cut Leno and Fuller. Eventually players get old. Eventually you run out of expensive salaries to redistribute into bonus money. They said that about NO every offseason for past 5 years. They still kept everybody they wanted the whole time. They are rebuilding now that their franchise QB retired. It can be done. They are the proof in my mind. Nobody wants to pay guys that aren’t helping. They still want to profit. Budget is not unlimited for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, dll2000 said: They said that about NO every offseason for past 5 years. They still kept everybody they wanted the whole time. They are rebuilding now that their franchise QB retired. It can be done. They are the proof in my mind. Nobody wants to pay guys that aren’t helping. They still want to profit. Budget is not unlimited for anyone. NO is finally paying the price for kicking the cap down the road. They have 36M in dead money on their cap and no cap space. They just lost Alexander (26), Anzalone (26), Brown (26), Burton (28), Cook (33), and Hendrickson (26). If the cap were a myth, they would have re-signed many of these guys. The same goes for the Bears and Kyle Fuller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 3 hours ago, dll2000 said: Don’t get me started on govt. policy. All I will say here is the laws of economics don’t care if you are Democrat or Republican or what you wish would happen or utopian dreams. Ignore them at your peril. Or my peril I guess since I live here too. TANSTAAFL LOL.....what I've come to realize over the years is that many things look good in theory yet never work out quite as well in reality. Deficit spending may be one no matter whose doing it. But once that idea was introduced around 50 years ago any thoughts of delayed gratification began to disappear and it became common place to buy now and pay later. As long as revenues increase and the cost of borrowing is minimal it can work but as the NFL learned this year any interruption in the process can have negative results. I'll skip addressing government and consumer deficit spending if only because the basic concept is the same and the purpose for it is quite similar anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 3 hours ago, dll2000 said: All I will say about cap is NFL can pay players a LOT more and still make a profit. And cap is mostly myth. It's a myth only in the same sense that saying two things no one can avoid are death and taxes. It's only the tax part that's a myth as we all know and may have learned even more about lately knowing we all helped finance Jeff Bezos space flight. Death is inevitable just as eventually paying for deferred salaries or bonus monies are for an NFL Cap. Neither can be avoided forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 19 minutes ago, soulman said: It's a myth only in the same sense that saying two things no one can avoid are death and taxes. It's only the tax part that's a myth as we all know and may have learned even more about lately knowing we all helped finance Jeff Bezos space flight. Death is inevitable just as eventually paying for deferred salaries or bonus monies are for an NFL Cap. Neither can be avoided forever. I am saying you can spend 10s of millions more than another team on team salary if you so choose by playing contract games and constantly deferring cap money to future years. It is ostensibly same cap for everyone, but actual dollars spent in a given year or 4 year span are not the same. The actual dollars spent are still real and have to be paid by an owner. They are not willing to spend anything and they give their GMs a real budget. That is why cap is not totally a myth. The allocations are public too, so you can't go too far in games you play because fans would demand more spent on FAs and publicly complain through social media. You can't spend anything you want. You have to stay reasonable. New Orleans has let cat out of bag a little bit on the game in recent years especially with the Taysom Hill contract The league is probably pissed at them. I think agents know, but now the public is slowly catching on. For example Kraft is bitching because he had to spend money this offseason. Why would he be extra perturbed this year as opposed to another with a hard cap in place? It should be relatively the same $$ spent each year. There should never be any reason for an owner to complain or be upset. It is same pool of money each year just allocating same resource in different ways, right? Obviously not to him. Their reactions tell you different, they tell the real story. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Yep, agreed. But we all do somewhat the same thing personally in how we allocate our own income. Some people can appear far more well off than they are. As for the Bears they've actually become very generous as far as how much cash they'll spend on players and a coaching staff as well as trainers, dieticians, chefs, the facilities at Halas Hall, etc. Given the return on those investments to date I would not be at all satisfied were I part of the ownership group. IMHO this has to come up sooner or later as it relates to Pace's decisions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 3 hours ago, soulman said: Yep, agreed. But we all do somewhat the same thing personally in how we allocate our own income. Some people can appear far more well off than they are. As for the Bears they've actually become very generous as far as how much cash they'll spend on players and a coaching staff as well as trainers, dieticians, chefs, the facilities at Halas Hall, etc. Given the return on those investments to date I would not be at all satisfied were I part of the ownership group. IMHO this has to come up sooner or later as it relates to Pace's decisions. Pace is definitely on a bad contract streak of late. Arguably some of it is just bad luck, but most of it is not Cohen, Quinn, Trevathan, Foles, Dalton, and Graham have all been too much money for the return on investment. Graham has played decent and been a valid mentor - but in end mentorship is kind of overrated. What are we paying position coaches for? Eddie Jackson has not played up to his new deal to date either. Goldman doesn't play this year he was bad contract too. I mean you are paying Dalton 10 million for what could turn out to be a handful of games. Foles you paid more for the same. On tiny chance Dalton lights is up this season, does it really matter short of a title or at least to NFC championship game? He is still gone after this year. A lot of money is going into the toilet. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted September 10, 2021 Author Share Posted September 10, 2021 Between Trevathan, Cohen, Jenkins, and Edwards we have 11.3M sitting the bench this week that don't count against the cap so technically speaking we have 10.4M in cap space right now lol. In reality, we only have 6M (assuming all the top-53 salaries are placed on the active list this week--we'll find out more on Saturday after Friday practice). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 5 hours ago, dll2000 said: Pace is definitely on a bad contract streak of late. Arguably some of it is just bad luck, but most of it is not Cohen, Quinn, Trevathan, Foles, Dalton, and Graham have all been too much money for the return on investment. Graham has played decent and been a valid mentor - but in end mentorship is kind of overrated. What are we paying position coaches for? Eddie Jackson has not played up to his new deal to date either. Goldman doesn't play this year he was bad contract too. I mean you are paying Dalton 10 million for what could turn out to be a handful of games. Foles you paid more for the same. On tiny chance Dalton lights is up this season, does it really matter short of a title or at least to NFC championship game? He is still gone after this year. A lot of money is going into the toilet. Yup, tough to figure how Graham can earn his keep now that we have James, Kmet and Horsted and the WR core has been recast. Toss in the RBs and just how many targets will Graham get? James and Kmet should be able to replace him or why did we draft one and sign the other? Instead of releasing him saving $4 mil we restructure and cost ourselves more. I'm not gonna come down hard on either EJax or Goldman. Jackson did have two 2020 pick sixes called back because of penalties and IMHO has been played out of position under Pagano. If after sitting out 2020 we lose Goldman to an injury that would be a huge loss but financially we've lost nothing because his current contract just rolled forward another year. Foles/Dalton is a disaster created by Pace being too impatient in 2020 and not allowing enough time to pass before committing to Foles. Nagy may have been a primary reason why. It was Dalton we seemed most interested in but Cincy wouldn't commit to any trades, we moved on, then Cincy released Dalton in plenty of time for him to latch on in Dallas. Major mistake here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 11 hours ago, JAF-N72EX said: Between Trevathan, Cohen, Jenkins, and Edwards we have 11.3M sitting the bench this week that don't count against the cap so technically speaking we have 10.4M in cap space right now lol. In reality, we only have 6M (assuming all the top-53 salaries are placed on the active list this week--we'll find out more on Saturday after Friday practice). Players on IR/PUP count against the cap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkwdw13 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, abstract_thought said: Players on IR/PUP count against the cap. Don’t the suspended players count also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said: Don’t the suspended players count also. I don't think so, but I could be wrong on that. I think Edwards' salary will only count toward the cap once he comes off suspension. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blkwdw13 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, abstract_thought said: I don't think so, but I could be wrong on that. I think Edwards' salary will only count toward the cap once he comes off suspension. I just looked it up it doesn’t count towards it since they don’t get paid it. So in his theory they don’t have that money sitting on the bench for Edwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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