Matts4313 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tk3 said: Sure.. Dak can demand things, and Jerry/Cowboys can say no. If that ends with a severance of the relationship, the Cowboys feel like they are still okay. Watson, on the other hand, can demand things, and if the Texans say no, and it ends with a severance of the relationship, then the Texans are in a BAD spot. For that reason, Watson has power. Dak doesn't Anybody can want anything. Anybody can ask for or demand anything they want. This is about power and leverage, and if you have it, you can get away with it. This is basic negotiation. Watson wants something, didn't get it. And now the Texans are paying the price. Disagree. There are 3 options: Watson sits out, losses millions upon millions, maybe retires and loses like ~$200m+ in career earnings. Or the Texans get a kings ransom for him setting them up very nicely for a rebuild. Watson caves and shows up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tk3 said: If you don't want to give him input, you have to deal with the possible outcomes. this whole situation is a real time lesson on power in the NFL And how the players have very little to none when it comes to their bosses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tk3 said: Sure.. Dak can demand things, and Jerry/Cowboys can say no. If that ends with a severance of the relationship, the Cowboys feel like they are still okay. Watson, on the other hand, can demand things, and if the Texans say no, and it ends with a severance of the relationship, then the Texans are in a BAD spot. For that reason, Watson has power. Dak doesn't Anybody can want anything. Anybody can ask for or demand anything they want. This is about power and leverage, and if you have it, you can get away with it. This is basic negotiation. Watson wants something, didn't get it. And now the Texans are paying the price. Watson signed a contract to play football. He has no right to absolutely 1000% demand a trade if his team does not agree with it. There is also no powers in Watson’s contract that allow him to have input on coach or GM’s decisions. This is still in the Texans ballpark. Watson has every right not to play, but the Texans have every right not to trade him. If I’m the Texans I’m going full Mike Brown here like he did with Carson Palmer. Absolutely no way I trade Deshaun unless I get like four 1st’s and a decent QB. It just wouldn’t be worth it to take anything less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Disagree. There are 3 options: Watson sits out, losses millions upon millions, maybe retires and loses like ~$200m+ in career earnings. Or the Texans get a kings ransom for him setting them up very nicely for a rebuild. Watson caves and shows up. sure.. that is a choice that the Texans have. but every team in that situation would have to choose between those possible outcomes versus just giving the most valuable piece in their franchise more control Anyone who says that this current Texans state of being is BETTER than having let Watson have some more control, is wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: And how the players have very little to none when it comes to their bosses. And the consequences to the team for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Watson signed a contract to play football. He has no right to absolutely 1000% demand a trade if his team does not agree with it. There is also no powers in Watson’s contract that allow him to have input on coach or GM’s decisions. This is still in the Texans ballpark. Watson has every right not to play, but the Texans have every right not to trade him. If I’m the Texans I’m going full Mike Brown here like he did with Carson Palmer. Absolutely no way I trade Deshaun unless I get like four 1st’s and a decent QB. It just wouldn’t be worth it to take anything less than that. You can certainly do that, but the Texans lose gigantic in that situation. Their team next year is an absolute mess as it is with no early first and a miserable cap situation. Take Watson out of the equation without getting a return and they are screwed in the short term and the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tk3 said: sure.. that is a choice that the Texans have. but every team in that situation would have to choose between those possible outcomes versus just giving the most valuable piece in their franchise more control Anyone who says that this current Texans state of being is BETTER than having let Watson have some more control, is wrong I would say 3 picks and a player, or 4 picks, is better than Watson *for the texans*. Because their team sucks and will waste Watson on this contract. It will also like be enough to let Easterby keep his job longer. A total meltdown and a lot of high picks is exactly what the Texans need. 2 minutes ago, Tk3 said: And the consequences to the team for that Since we can both agree that Watson is not sitting out for the next 5 years, nor retiring, than there are no consequences at all. Which is what I have been trying to tell @ET80, there is no reason to panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tk3 said: You can certainly do that, but the Texans lose gigantic in that situation. Their team next year is an absolute mess as it is with no early first and a miserable cap situation. Take Watson out of the equation without getting a return and they are screwed in the short term and the long term. I’m just saying, if I’m the Texans owner, I absolutely refuse to be bullied into taking a bad deal. Watson is worth 4 1sts and a QB. He’s almost untradeable. If someone wants to give me that, cool. I refuse to let someone who signed a contract for me, force a bad deal. No deal is better than a bad deal in just about every business decision in the world. I’d rather chalk it up as a retirement. Deshaun will play though. Texans have ALL the leverage. Edited January 30, 2021 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: Players are not qualified nor should they have significant influence over picking their bosses. Can they be part of the interview? sure. Or maybe recommend a college coach they enojyed? okay. But Watson trying to pick his bosses (QB coach), Bosses (OC), Boss (HC) *AND* that guys boss (GM) is pure lunacy. Thats like a really crazy good harvard grad techie trying to tell Bill Gates how to make his executive staff after he worked for Microsoft for a few years. Insert whatever analogy you want. Maybe a young Lawyer trying to tell the partnership who should make partner? I dont know. But you get the point. It has more to do with the owner promising things that he shouldn’t have, including that Watson would be a big part of the process. And then reneging on it, as well as reneging on his statement that Easterby wouldn’t be involved either. If both of those things did not happen, then we wouldn’t be here with Houston and Watson. https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/11/mmqb-wild-card-weekend-lamar-jackson-wins-cleveland-browns-overcome Quote Also, there’s no question this whole thing was sloppy. It had been communicated they weren’t going down the Patriot road again, and a search firm was hired to turn over new rocks. That search firm, Korn Ferry, discussed the idea of tapping John Dorsey as GM, which would’ve lined up with QB Deshaun Watson (more on him in a minute) wanting the team to take a look at Chiefs OC Eric Bieniemy. When the Dorsey idea died on the vine, Korn Ferry advocated for Steelers exec Omar Khan on the GM side and Colts defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus on the coaching side. And then, word got to McNair that Caserio had knocked his interview out of the park in Carolina, EVP Jack Easterby reentered the picture and, to the shock of many there, the Caserio hire was fast-tracked. A mess? Yup, that handling of all this was a mess. But that does not mean that the Texans didn’t get it right. Caserio’s smart as a whip, and has experience in every facet of a football operation. He was the Patriots’ receivers coach in 2007, the year Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Donte’ Stallworth were acquired, and the New England offense exploded. He worked on both the scouting and coaching sides before that. He took Scott Pioli’s place in 2009, and since has been charged with negotiating trades and contracts, while staying true to his football roots (he’s even remained on the offensive headset during games). Make no mistake, there’s a reason why he was so sought after the last few years, and one bad season and a few shaky drafts doesn’t change that. Houston did well to land him, even if it stepped on a lot of rakes before getting there. Caserio should involve Watson in the coaching search. That doesn’t mean, by the way, letting Watson pick the next guy, which is not something Watson ever asked to do. It does mean treating him like an important piece of the Texans’ future, which he is. Here’s the thing: This whole fiasco is of Houston’s own doing. The team didn’t have to tell Watson he’d be involved. They did. Then, they consulted with him right up until they got close to making a hire, and once they got close to making a hire, Watson’s involvement ended. A candidate he’d discussed with them, Bieniemy, was out of the picture. Caserio was in it, as was Easterby. So it’s easy to see why Watson’s upset here. Anyone in that scenario would probably feel like they were being patronized and lied to, and the truth is that the team would’ve been better off not involving Watson at all than letting this go the way it did. Which has left a flaming bag of you-know-what on Caserio’s doorstep as he starts his new job. The answer going forward is pretty simple. Whether it’s Bills OC Brian Daboll, Rams DC Brandon Staley or someone else, just do your best to keep Watson updated. Let him know he’s valued. It’s not that hard, and if it had been done before, this mess would’ve been avoided before the Texans got to this very weird place with their most important player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, biggie. said: Houston did the wrong thing by not openly communicating the Caserio hire to Watson. I can understand him being upset about that. However, he doesn't get a say who the organization hires. That’s not what happened. It was much more complicated. The first step should have been firing Easterby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Tk3 said: I sort of think the market should let itself play out "Power" is fluid and dynamic. If there are certain individuals (let's use LeBron, since you invoked the NBA) who provide more benefit of value than a coach, GM, etc. then you need to do the things to make them happy. If you don't, then you risk losing said asset. As an owner, you have to decide which risk is bigger, the risk of losing the player asset, or the risk of allowing that player to have some control over the situation. I'm fully against the notion that players should just be happy with whatever is given to them. If they are able to wield and command power (and I think we have less than half a dozen in the NFL who really can), I don't think they are out of line to use it. Houston made the choice to choose the back office over the star player, and these are the repercussions Houston chose to listen to someone who was completely unqualified to give advice. And I’m not talking about Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Watson signed a contract to play football. He has no right to absolutely 1000% demand a trade if his team does not agree with it. There is also no powers in Watson’s contract that allow him to have input on coach or GM’s decisions. This is still in the Texans ballpark. Watson has every right not to play, but the Texans have every right not to trade him. If I’m the Texans I’m going full Mike Brown here like he did with Carson Palmer. Absolutely no way I trade Deshaun unless I get like four 1st’s and a decent QB. It just wouldn’t be worth it to take anything less than that. Not good for Houston to be compared with one of the worse owners in the NFL. Edit: given everything that already happened, if I was Cal McNair, I would have moved Easterby somewhere outside of the NFL if I’m unwilling to fire him. Then I would work with Casserio to find a way to reach Watson and get him to stay. If it still doesn’t work, then I would trade him to a place like Miami so he doesn’t have to deal with this dysfunction right now. Edited January 30, 2021 by Xenos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, Xenos said: It has more to do with the owner promising things that he shouldn’t have, including that Watson would be a big part of the process. And then reneging on it, as well as reneging on his statement that Easterby wouldn’t be involved either. If both of those things did not happen, then we wouldn’t be here with Houston and Watson. https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/01/11/mmqb-wild-card-weekend-lamar-jackson-wins-cleveland-browns-overcome Which is why Watson was stupid to sign a contract with them. He should have seen how incompetent the FO is. As I said in another thread: Watson knew that they just traded Hopkins. Watson knew that Easterby was gaining power and some players hated him. Watson knew BoB was likely to be fired soon. Watson knew that they had no draft capital. Watson knew the young talent wasnt there. So if Watson couldnt read the tea leaves, he is an idiot. Everyone else knew things were bleak. So he is either blinded by money or ignorant to what was happening on his own team. Both are not a good look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Xenos said: That’s not what happened. It was much more complicated. The first step should have been firing Easterby. Should have been, he is incompetent. 4 minutes ago, Xenos said: Houston chose to listen to someone who was completely unqualified to give advice. And I’m not talking about Watson. Atleast the other guy has 16 years of being around the NFL. Which is more than 4.... Watson is also completely unqualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Should have been, he is incompetent. Atleast the other guy has 16 years of being around the NFL. Which is more than 4.... Watson is also completely unqualified. He’s more qualified than Easterby. And he wouldn’t have been upset if they had just hired Omar Khan like the search firm recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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