jrry32 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Brees only play 1 game as a rookie. But from 2-6: 5 4 7 6 7 Manning: 5 7 7 6 6 Rivers started Year 3: 7 6 8 8 8 Goff 3 8 8 6 6 ANY/A. Rounded up/down because I am lazy and just wanted to quickly prove my point that you are wrong. And you failed miserably to do so. Because you conveniently ignored my point about AGE. If you're going to prove me wrong, at least stick to the parameters in the discussion. Don't create a straw man, defeat your own straw man, and then declare victory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Manning before age 27 has the exact same trend Goff does. Ben Roethlisberger had no clear trend. His play was up and down, with his age-26 season being a rather poor one. Brees's play started off poorly, trended massively upwards, and then trended down a bit at 26. Stafford's play started off poor, trended way up, and then trended down again until he hit the prime window. Philip Rivers became a starter at 25 with a good year, saw his play trend down at 26, and then watched his play take off when he entered his prime window. I have more examples. How many do you need? Well this is not what you said at all, and its different people, so try to say what you mean the first time the next time you say it. That said - by trend line are you talking bulk production? If so, I will drop it now because thats a terrible argument. Secondly, this whole point is silly because we all know that QB stat lines are changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jrry32 said: And you failed miserably to do so. Because you conveniently ignored my point about AGE. If you're going to prove me wrong, at least stick to the parameters in the discussion. Don't create a straw man, defeat your own straw man, and then declare victory. Funny. Let me read this post again. 2 hours ago, jrry32 said: Too late. I'm doing it. People don't seem to get that pocket passers are volatile and inconsistent from year to year until they hit that window. They remember Brees, Brady, Manning, Rivers, etc. in their primes, but they don't remember the QBs before their primes. Nowhere does it say AGE. Who failed miserably again? Edited February 1, 2021 by Matts4313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: Well this is not what you said at all, and its different people, so try to say what you mean the first time the next time you say it. That said - by trend line are you talking bulk production? If so, I will drop it now because thats a terrible argument. Secondly, this whole point is silly because we all know that QB stat lines are changed. Yes, it is. I've been hammering this point for years now. There is a prime window for pocket passers. It's 27 to 30 years old. That's when they typically stop being volatile from year to year, make a jump, and tend to be consistent. That's not true in every case (Flacco, Ryan, and Dalton being three examples to the contrary), but it has been true in a fairly significant number of cases over the past 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Funny. Let me read this post again. Nowhere does it say AGE. Who failed miserably again? Except that's exactly what the discussion was. You jumping in during the middle of it isn't my fault. This is in the quote: "People don't seem to get that pocket passers are volatile and inconsistent from year to year until they hit that window." What did you think "that window" meant? It is the 27 to 30 year old window I have referenced a number of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: Yes, it is. I've been hammering this point for years now. There is a prime window for pocket passers. It's 27 to 30 years old. That's when they typically stop being volatile from year to year, make a jump, and tend to be consistent. That's not true in every case (Flacco, Ryan, and Dalton being three examples to the contrary), but it has been true in a fairly significant number of cases over the past 20 years. I dont care who or what youve hammered for years. I am directly talking about what you said in a post and I responded to. So, since you dont even know what you wrote, I encourage you to reread the past few pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Just now, jrry32 said: Except that's exactly what the discussion was. You jumping in during the middle of it isn't my fault. This is in the quote: "People don't seem to get that pocket passers are volatile and inconsistent from year to year until they hit that window." What did you think "that window" meant? It is the 27 to 30 year old window I have referenced a number of times. Window is an indescriptive term. I just assumed you meant past the rookie wall that some guys hit. Different for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) Not worth it. Edited February 1, 2021 by jrry32 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On the plus side, at least we're having an all-out argument about Jared Goff in a Goff-related thread. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 9 hours ago, Ragnarok said: One thing that would worry me if I was a Rams fan is that it seems like they are gonna have studs and duds without those mid-level guys that make up the majority of the roster. Yes, Donald is a beast, but if he is the only viable pass rusher on the DL, you're going to have issues. And they won't have 1st round picks or the cap space to fill in those gaps. Studs - AD, Ramsey Good starters - Stafford, Woods, Kupp, Whitworth, Darious Williams, Akers Average to above average starters - Fuller, Brockers, Joseph-Day, Havenstein, David Edwards, Higbee Young guys with potential - Van Jefferson, Taylor Rapp, Terrell Burgess, Austin Corbett, Terrell Lewis, Bobby Evans, Micah Kiser, Greg Gaines, A'Shawn Robinson Developing as depth - Justin Hollins, Obo, Darrell Henderson, Johnny Mundt Duds or trending toward duds - David Long, Troy Reeder, Kenny Young, Noteboom, Allen Young unknowns - Bryce Hopkins, Anchrum, Deayon This is leaving out almost every free agent this year. Rams will have obvious needs at DB (S or CB - whichever Burgess doesn't play, he can play S or NCB), C, EDGE, WR and ILB - DB and WR for depth, C, ILB and EDGE for starters. Had the youngest team in the NFC last year and are actually a pretty deep team. These five positions will likely be the targets for the draft, with a free agent or two sprinkled in. We've drafted very well overall even without the first round picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Not worth it. Well, I already read this. And I am curious now: Goff: 52 121 120 102 100 Manning: 96 120 127 109 113 Brady: 102 105 107 Brees: 95 81 129 Rivers: 116 102 < 26 128 Thats within your 26 yr old window. Its ANY/A+. This stat is ANY/A but its only compared to peers for that year. 100 is completely average. Still no one with the trend line. Am I still wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 hours ago, CWood21 said: Robert Woods really isn't doing anything that he wasn't doing in Buffalo. The only difference is that the volume of targets he's getting with the Rams is significantly higher than it was in Buffalo. And his catch rate going up is probably a byproduct of having Jared Goff throwing to him as opposed to the likes of Tyrod Taylor, Kyle Orton, and EJ Manuel. The Whitworth signing was a bit surprising, because he's managed to stay relatively healthy given his age with the exception of this season. I think people were more skeptical of McVay because of his short track record. Not because he was young. B The Watkins trade was bad at the time, and it still is bad now. Four years of guys like DJ Chark, Carlton Davis, Fred Warner, etc. or one year of Sammy Watkins. Dumb move was dumb then, it's still dumb now. The Brandin Cooks' trade was blasted because you don't trade a FRP for a slot receiver when you can find a cheap one in the draft. And it turned out significantly better because the Texans were dumb enough to throw their SRP on it. So they "rented" Cooks for 2 years and downgraded from the first round to the second round. But I'll pose the question, are they better off with 2 years of Cooks and then Jefferson or someone like Calvin Ridley? They traded a SRP for Marcus Peters and then dealt him for a 5th round pick and IIRC he graded out terribly during that time. I'm not sure how that's a win. Not sure anyone really had issues with the Talib pickup. And the Rams signed Suh for a 1 year deal, so really not a whole lot of risk there. Yet for how forward thinking this franchise is, they've got 1 Super Bowl appearance, 3 playoff trips, and two divisional titles to show for it. The Watkins trade was not bad - we gave up a second round pick, he led the team with 10 or 11 TD catches, then left and we got a 3rd round comp pick for him. Peters was apart of a secondary that shut down Brady in the Super Bowl - so while that one is questionable, if Goff plays better in the Super Bowl this isn't a conversation. Getting Cooks allowed us to increase our PPG and be generally better on offense, then produced a 2nd round pick (for a 4th). Ramsey value is obvious Stafford remains to be seen - but it's worth noting that under McVay and Snead, the Rams have improved the season after making a trade each time. And four straight winning seasons for the Rams for the first time since the 80s is incredible for us. There's probably just a few teams who have more wins than us in the last four years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 2 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Well, I already read this. And I am curious now: Goff: 52 121 120 102 100 Manning: 96 120 127 109 113 Brady: 102 105 107 Brees: 95 81 129 Rivers: 116 102 < 26 128 Thats within your 26 yr old window. Its ANY/A+. This stat is ANY/A but its only compared to peers for that year. 100 is completely average. Still no one with the trend line. Am I still wrong? Yep. Still wrong. If we were to use a different stat like passer rating, you know what the answer is. For whatever reason, 27 to 30 years old is when pocket passers tend to hit their primes. Many successful ones had underwhelming age-26 seasons, including Matthew Stafford. I think the Rams shouldn't have made this deal at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 37 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Against Green Bay, Goff's top weapons were Woods, Van Jefferson, Higbee, and Akers. So yeah, I think it's quite a fair comparison to make. Prime Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, end of his career Boldin, and last season in Detroit Ebron are certainly not worse than what Goff had. I mean, I don't agree at all, and we likely won't see eye to eye, but you really think there's any comparison between Zach Zenner and Cam Akers? The difference is massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said: I mean, I don't agree at all, and we likely won't see eye to eye, but you really think there's any comparison between Zach Zenner and Cam Akers? The difference is massive. Do you think there's a comparison between rookie Van Jefferson and prime Marvin Jones? To answer your question, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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