Who do you want at #7?

[StLunatic88]

I get the allure of Wilson, and I will not deny his arm talent. But He just isn’t close to Lawrence for me, and I think he and Fields are bing artificially inflated due to all the QB holes at the top of this draft.

I know most get enamored with the “wow” throws, but seeing them against such atrocious defenses really has me wondering, would they even be completions against some decent defenses, not to mention good CBs? He is rarely under any real pressure, and get to have his plays develop for 4-5-6+ seconds before he has to get throws off. And while he will still be a mobile QB, he will not be able to be a running QB in the Pros, and he defaults to that far too quickly for my taste right now, which is what allows them to freeze lower quality defenses long enough/hold off an extra rusher.

He will always have the arm talent, I will not doubt that, but its his style of play that would make me stay away.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

I get the allure of Wilson, and I will not deny his arm talent. But He just isn’t close to Lawrence for me, and I think he and Fields are bing artificially inflated due to all the QB holes at the top of this draft.

I'd argue it's the other side of that argument.  If Trevor Lawrence wasn't in this draft, how would you evaluate them?  I think they're being unfairly compared against Lawrence.

[StLunatic88]

13 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'd argue it's the other side of that argument.  If Trevor Lawrence wasn't in this draft, how would you evaluate them?  I think they're being unfairly compared against Lawrence.

I would have the same evaluation of them. I mean Ive stopped even looking at Lawrence nearly a year ago, thats how clear cut he is as the #1 pick, so the 2021 draft always started at #2. 

I’m not saying I’m right, but I see people pulling up Highlight “wow” throws, which are impressive arm talent throws, but would all likely be incompletions against most above average college defenses, and I’m sure we would have seen interceptions (due to bad decisions, not lack of talent) against some draft level CBs.

You start taking away his rushing threat, and I’m worried we are already looking at his ceiling right now.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

I would have the same evaluation of them. I mean Ive stopped even looking at Lawrence nearly a year ago, thats how clear cut he is as the #1 pick, so the 2021 draft always started at #2. 

I’m not saying I’m right, but I see people pulling up Highlight “wow” throws, which are impressive arm talent throws, but would all likely be incompletions against most above average college defenses, and I’m sure we would have seen interceptions (due to bad decisions, not lack of talent) against some draft level CBs.

You start taking away his rushing threat, and I’m worried we are already looking at his ceiling right now.

Again, you're probably preaching to the choir on this one.  There's a LOT of inherent risk involved with Fields, and probably have him as QB3 when it's said and done. But if you're looking for the perfect QB prospect, you're going to be sitting on the sidlines and consistently being a 5-6 win team.  They don't come out very often.  You draft someone who has the required skillset to make things work, you believe in what is between his ears, and you develop the hell out of them.  If you don't trust your QB room to develop Fields, you don't take him.  It's that simple.

[StLunatic88]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Again, you're probably preaching to the choir on this one.  There's a LOT of inherent risk involved with Fields, and probably have him as QB3 when it's said and done. But if you're looking for the perfect QB prospect, you're going to be sitting on the sidlines and consistently being a 5-6 win team.  They don't come out very often.  You draft someone who has the required skillset to make things work, you believe in what is between his ears, and you develop the hell out of them.  If you don't trust your QB room to develop Fields, you don't take him.  It's that simple.

Yep, I’m usually risk adverse when it comes to QB prospects as it is. And when it comes to Wilson, I see a lot of “cowboy” tendencies that I don’t like, and I’m not sure he will get away from those any time soon.

I think Fields has immense talent, but he needs the perfect situation around him, and he might need to sit for a couple of years (which is a waste of half a rookie contract). 

I think the Lions are in a great spot to cash in a draft haul for whoever the last of the Top 3 QBs on the board. Because probably multiple teams behind them will still be without the QB they want by Draft time, and I don’t think any of them “love” Lance

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, StLunatic88 said:

Yep, I’m usually risk adverse when it comes to QB prospects as it is. And when it comes to Wilson, I see a lot of “cowboy” tendencies that I don’t like, and I’m not sure he will get away from those any time soon.

I think Fields has immense talent, but he needs the perfect situation around him, and he might need to sit for a couple of years (which is a waste of half a rookie contract). 

I think the Lions are in a great spot to cash in a draft haul for whoever the last of the Top 3 QBs on the board. Because probably multiple teams behind them will still be without the QB they want by Draft time, and I don’t think any of them “love” Lance

I really don't think we're going to see any of the top 3 QBs available at 7.  Jacksonville is obviously taking Lawrence.  I still don't see a situation where the #2 pick isn't used on a QB.  It's either take a QB there or trade down for a team who wants a QB (i.e Carolina, Denver, or San Francisco).  Miami probably entertains trade offers for their pick and could move back.  Same with Atlanta.  I just have a hard time fathoming one of the top 3 QBs being on the board at 7.

[StLunatic88]

22 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I really don't think we're going to see any of the top 3 QBs available at 7.  Jacksonville is obviously taking Lawrence.  I still don't see a situation where the #2 pick isn't used on a QB.  It's either take a QB there or trade down for a team who wants a QB (i.e Carolina, Denver, or San Francisco).  Miami probably entertains trade offers for their pick and could move back.  Same with Atlanta.  I just have a hard time fathoming one of the top 3 QBs being on the board at 7.

Maybe not, but theres is easily a scenario that Lawrence goes 1, the next QB goes 2 to either the Jets or the Texans (only two in play I believe) and then after that, Miami already has a bunch of draft capital and may just rather insure that they get the talent they want at #3 instead of hoping they get someone they like at 8 or later. The Falcons could very well move down as well, or they could look at what they have, say we can make one more run before we really hit the reset button and get a Day 1 impact guys. And then if the right Lineman is still there for Cincinnati, they need to protect Burrow more than anything and then its just Philly, and do you trust them to do anything correctly/smart right now?

Sure all three could go 1-2-3/4 but its no where close to a lock. Remember how much rumored movement there was going into last years draft? And then none of it happened?

[CWood21]

10 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Maybe not, but theres is easily a scenario that Lawrence goes 1, the next QB goes 2 to either the Jets or the Texans (only two in play I believe) and then after that, Miami already has a bunch of draft capital and may just rather insure that they get the talent they want at #3 instead of hoping they get someone they like at 8 or later. The Falcons could very well move down as well, or they could look at what they have, say we can make one more run before we really hit the reset button and get a Day 1 impact guys. And then if the right Lineman is still there for Cincinnati, they need to protect Burrow more than anything and then its just Philly, and do you trust them to do anything correctly/smart right now?

Sure all three could go 1-2-3/4 but its no where close to a lock. Remember how much rumored movement there was going into last years draft? And then none of it happened?

It was also a pretty stagnant first round IIRC.  And I think a LOT of that had to do with the the whole COVID situation putting everything on lockdown.  And the only team inside the top 6 that needed a QB but didn't take one was Washington who opted for BPA.  The Lions drafted a CB and the Giants drafted an OT.  But the Lions were supposed to be the team that wanted to move down for extra picks, but didn't.  I think the offseason process is going to be a bit closer to normal, although not completely.  Investing in a QB in last year's draft was a really risky trasnsaction.

[jrry32]

11 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I get the allure of Wilson, and I will not deny his arm talent. But He just isn’t close to Lawrence for me, and I think he and Fields are bing artificially inflated due to all the QB holes at the top of this draft.

I know most get enamored with the “wow” throws, but seeing them against such atrocious defenses really has me wondering, would they even be completions against some decent defenses, not to mention good CBs? He is rarely under any real pressure, and get to have his plays develop for 4-5-6+ seconds before he has to get throws off. And while he will still be a mobile QB, he will not be able to be a running QB in the Pros, and he defaults to that far too quickly for my taste right now, which is what allows them to freeze lower quality defenses long enough/hold off an extra rusher.

He will always have the arm talent, I will not doubt that, but its his style of play that would make me stay away.

Yeah, I think so. His ball placement is legit. Dude reminds me of Aaron Rodgers with his play style and physical attributes. There's some backyardness to his game, but if Mahomes has taught us anything, it's that backyardness is not a negative if the guy can play within structure. Wilson can play within structure.

[Millenhater]

14 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

There are 4 top ten QBs in this draft but there’s only one “great” QB prospect and he’s going number 1 overall. There may be a second in the bunch that turns out to be something special. But out of the four QBs, there’s only going to be one that falls to us. I’m not rolling the dice on a QB that 6 other teams valued 3 better than. 

I know it was only 2 QBs but 6 teams passed on Herbert last year and so far it looks like the Chargers are happy with him.

[Millenhater]

13 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I get the allure of Wilson, and I will not deny his arm talent. But He just isn’t close to Lawrence for me, and I think he and Fields are bing artificially inflated due to all the QB holes at the top of this draft.

I know most get enamored with the “wow” throws, but seeing them against such atrocious defenses really has me wondering, would they even be completions against some decent defenses, not to mention good CBs? He is rarely under any real pressure, and get to have his plays develop for 4-5-6+ seconds before he has to get throws off. And while he will still be a mobile QB, he will not be able to be a running QB in the Pros, and he defaults to that far too quickly for my taste right now, which is what allows them to freeze lower quality defenses long enough/hold off an extra rusher.

He will always have the arm talent, I will not doubt that, but its his style of play that would make me stay away.

When I first watched Wilson that’s what I thought as well.  He reminded me so much of Manziel that I wrote him off just has I did Johnny (Hated him as a prospect) but like you said he has arm talent.  I mean the ball jumps off his hand.  And he’s pretty accurate with the football.  I don’t know his frame does bother me but he has great touch, timing and anticipation with his throws.

[HashtagFTW]

8 hours ago, Millenhater said:

I know it was only 2 QBs but 6 teams passed on Herbert last year and so far it looks like the Chargers are happy with him.

And if we were at #7 last year looking for a QB like this year, we’d be stuck with Jordan Love. You pulling that trigger? 

[Karnage84]

10 hours ago, Millenhater said:

When I first watched Wilson that’s what I thought as well.  He reminded me so much of Manziel that I wrote him off just has I did Johnny (Hated him as a prospect) but like you said he has arm talent.  I mean the ball jumps off his hand.  And he’s pretty accurate with the football.  I don’t know his frame does bother me but he has great touch, timing and anticipation with his throws.

Manziel didn't fail because of a lack of talent. Manziel failed because of a lack of work ethic. I've been reading Bruce Feldman's "The QB: The Making of the Modern Quarterback" and it details Manziel's time coming out of high school, freshman year at A&M, winning the Heisman, living in the spotlight afterwards, etc. Johnny bought into his own hype right from his freshman/Heisman year. Guys were travelling across the country to work with him (George Whitfield was his private QB coach), he'd show up late, unprepared (didn't even have his cleats with him, they were in the car while his buddies went off to get tacos), was asked to leave as a counselor at the Manning Passing Academy because of a late night drinking + showing up late the next day (had more so to do with the lateness than the drinking). Manziel himself had admitted that his work ethic just plain sucked. 

[Millenhater]

9 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

And if we were at #7 last year looking for a QB like this year, we’d be stuck with Jordan Love. You pulling that trigger? 

The difference for me (FOR ME) is I didn’t think Love was a good prospect.  I think the Lawrence, Lance, Fields and Wilson are.  All have their flaws to be sure, but I like all of them WAY more than I like Love, which was not that much.  

[Millenhater]

7 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Manziel didn't fail because of a lack of talent. Manziel failed because of a lack of work ethic. I've been reading Bruce Feldman's "The QB: The Making of the Modern Quarterback" and it details Manziel's time coming out of high school, freshman year at A&M, winning the Heisman, living in the spotlight afterwards, etc. Johnny bought into his own hype right from his freshman/Heisman year. Guys were travelling across the country to work with him (George Whitfield was his private QB coach), he'd show up late, unprepared (didn't even have his cleats with him, they were in the car while his buddies went off to get tacos), was asked to leave as a counselor at the Manning Passing Academy because of a late night drinking + showing up late the next day (had more so to do with the lateness than the drinking). Manziel himself had admitted that his work ethic just plain sucked. 

I know his off-field was like 80% the reason but I didn’t think his game would translate.  I just remember him running backwards and throwing off his back foot jump balls to Mike Evans.  But to your point, yes that dude was a mess.