FF Big Brother 9: Swoosh wins!!

[The Orca]

13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Incorrect.

I did not know Swoosh was aligned with Ted and Shady.  I already said this in a different answer.  It clicked for me like a literal minute before Swoosh told me.  If I had any inclination whatsoever that Swoosh was going to vote you out, I would have told Jason to put Swoosh up.

And now we're on the subject, I really wish you spoke with me more.  I really wish you communicated about the game with me more.  As you'll see in the diary entries, I had zero intention of getting rid of you throughout this game, but at the same time I had no idea what your thoughts were. 

The first time Swoosh and I really started communicating in this game was when he brought up the need to separate Ted and Shady. 

Before that, we just checked in every now and then. 

That's pretty much all I spoke to Swoosh about, which is probably what set Ted and Shady against me. 

Then again as soon as you, Jason and Swoosh saved me on the block, Swoosh and I spoke about needing to get rid of one of Ted/Shady. 

The plan all along as soon as Jason won HoH was to get rid of Ted or Shady.  The two of us decided it was best to get rid of Ted.  As soon as Ted won PoV, I literally said to Swoosh, "You know this means we're going to have to do the difficult thing here and get rid of Shady."  And Swoosh said he knew. 

In a sense it was a failure on my part.  It was.  I failed you.  But Swoosh lied to and betrayed both of us with that one. 

I do a bad job of communicating and talking in these games. It's not intentional at all. It hurt me a lot in this one for sure and is the aspect which is why i will never win imo (hurt me in past games as well). I'm not a talkative person. This is almost the exact same as IRL as well. Im more of a back of the bus/listen type until there is something I really want to talk about. You are probably the 4th person I have told this to now this game. Dont assume me being quiet is a bad thing (@ everyone), its just who I am. If you want to talk about something, odds are you are going to have to put in extra effort in a way. Im an open book, but a quiet one unless opened.

If you all want to know the biggest difference between myself and @Pickle Rick IRL, its that. He talks much more than me (not extremely different, but different)

Now to the bottom part. I knew where almost everyone was this game and who was going up and out. @swoosh never really lied to me. He did what was best for him at that time and I respect that 

Side note: I thought I did really well being in with everyone that I wanted to be with, but with talking to a very minimal amount of people 

[swoosh]

3 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Orca asked who you told to put up as a replacement, not initially.

That's not true either. After the veto, my initial thought was you. I realized it couldn't be you though and thus the only choice was Orca. He was a last resort. I would have voted to save him in any vote that didn't involve Shady or Ted. I'm not sure why you're acting like you know here when you yourself were out of the loop. You thought I was voting out Shady, so don't claim to know what I was thinking there. 

[swoosh]

1 hour ago, gopherwrestler said:

So HZ didn’t cheat and break the rules, but he basically did? What are your thoughts on this @swoosh

Screenshoting by itself is not shady, it's the content of what is being shared. For example, Outpost sent me several screenshots of messages he was sending to other people. I considered that fine. That was exactly what my screenshot was to him. It was what I said to you, basically saying I have his back. Outpost himself said there was nothing to it. 

[swoosh]

47 minutes ago, The Orca said:

I do a bad job of communicating and talking in these games. It's not intentional at all. It hurt me a lot in this one for sure and is the aspect which is why i will never win imo (hurt me in past games as well). I'm not a talkative person. This is almost the exact same as IRL as well. Im more of a back of the bus/listen type until there is something I really want to talk about. You are probably the 4th person I have told this to now this game. Dont assume me being quiet is a bad thing (@ everyone), its just who I am. If you want to talk about something, odds are you are going to have to put in extra effort in a way. Im an open book, but a quiet one unless opened.

If you all want to know the biggest difference between myself and @Pickle Rick IRL, its that. He talks much more than me (not extremely different, but different)

Now to the bottom part. I knew where almost everyone was this game and who was going up and out. @swoosh never really lied to me. He did what was best for him at that time and I respect that 

Side note: I thought I did really well being in with everyone that I wanted to be with, but with talking to a very minimal amount of people 

This is actually really good to know lol. I thought at times that you didn't trust me because you didn't really say much and I always had to start the conversations. I thought it might be because you thought I lied to you and voted out Pickle when he was on the block against Outpost.

I'm glad you understand too. It really did hurt having to evict you, but the very least I could do was be honest with you. I actually told Shady and Ted that I couldn't do it that very night and needed more time. It was also important I break the news to you first before it actually happened. 

[swoosh]

3 hours ago, Dwight_Schrute said:

@swooshNot taking away the not being nominated achievement. That's a big one, and a fact that Derrick brought up numerous times on his way to BB victory. But at the same time it's easy to see it as the way Outpost alluded to. Not being nominated isn't always a sign of a good social game, it could also be seen as you just not being a threat to the players in the house. Like a safe player to bring to the end like Cody should have done with Victoria. You mentioned having a diary room session with Malf about this "Operation stay off the block." Could you explain the details of this, because I want to hear from you if it was deliberate and strategy on your end that made this happen, or if there were just always bigger fish to fry and you sort of floated in the background.

I get that, but I don't think it was just a case of not being a "threat" in the house. I mean, in a game like this, are there really many threats? I considered Outpost one because he won Survivor and proved to be good in challenges. But I'd be hard pressed to name many threats. I can't speak for others though. It's possible I was kept around for that reason, but I just don't buy it. I think the moves Shady and Ted made at the end, turning down deals that would advance their games, just to keep their word to me is telling. I built genuine bonds with the players I worked with. You don't make it the whole game not sitting on the block once without some luck, but there's a lot more to it than that. It would be one thing if I avoided the block by throwing out lies to everybody, but that's far from what happened. The amount of people I worked with is relatively small. I'd bet a lot less than Outpost. Nothing good or bad with that per se, but I'm just not a fan of making everyone seem like their the one. It's why I'd argue me not sitting on the block was more due to my social game than not being a threat, but again I can't speak for what others thought.

This was my exact line to Malf, on April 21st: "Everything is going according to plan. Mission stay off the block." It was after my veto win and then the gopher eviction. I wouldn't say I came into the game with some sort o strategy to stay off the block. That's just not controllable. It was more of a goal that developed into the game than a strategy. The strategy behind it was using people to weaken everyone's support systems, thus making them rely on me. That helped me stay off the block, but just staying off the block just for the sake of saying that, wasn't the intention behind the quote.

[ET80]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

I've got more questions. Will post later.

@Outpost31, @swoosh...

If you win:

- Will you play in BB X?

- How will you change your strategy?

If you lose:

- Will you play in BB X?

- How will you change your strategy?

[swoosh]

1 minute ago, ET80 said:

@Outpost31, @swoosh...

If you win:

- Will you play in BB X?

- How will you change your strategy?

If you lose:

- Will you play in BB X?

- How will you change your strategy?

My answers are the same for both.

Yes. This is a great time, win or lose. I enjoy just chatting it up with people and the strategy that comes with it. The comps are fun too. It does consume a lot of time though, so if I didn't play it would only be because I couldn't commit to the effort at that time. But who I am kidding? I've got nothing better to do. I'll be in.

As to strategy, this won't change much, win or lose. What you see is what you get. I played my game and got as far as I could, hopefully winning. It's one I can be happy with winning or losing. Sounds corny, but it's true. What I've been toying with doing though is just completely randomizing my alliances. Using a generator to randomize a final 2 or final 3 and a few other smaller ones.  I think that would be a lot of fun. Something new. For the record, I don't think it would work out very well. I still want to give it a try just to see how it would go. I'm relatively new to these games and I can see how quickly it could get repetitive. 

[swoosh]

5 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

This one I knew Ted/Shady/Swoosh were all 100% on wanting Jason out.  I didn't feel any pressure here whatsoever and I played both the HOH and the Veto in such a way as to either win or make sure Jason lost.  I didn't betray Jason per se, but I knew I had to compete in the next one.  If I had won this HOH, I would have 100% gone home the next round if I didn't win HOH or POV.  I didn't throw the HOH and Ted really did beat me, but my heart wasn't really in it anyway because I wanted to play in the next one.  I knew if I won the HOH or the POV I was going to make it to the final two.

You do owe Jason a beer for this if you win, because Shady and myself both voted with our hearts and not our heads there. Ted said he would have voted you out should it got to him tied. Jason's in-thread rants saved you there. And quite frankly, I don't even regret it. 

[TedLavie]

7 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Also, let me peep that jury Discord and see if I'm winning.  I promise I won't screenshot. 

Also, ask me more questions.  I feel like Swoosh is making up plans he never had. 

Or I could just do this:
 

 

@swoosh I would appreciate the same breakdown vote by vote Outpost did. Very insightful 

 

[Shady Slim]

some thoughts as to the orca’s eviction that nobody asked for but i’ll give anyway:

when it was apparent ted was about to win veto i immediately got on to swoosh and said brother you’ve got to tell outpost and jason that if jason puts you up, orca might well vote to save me - and the only way to ensure i go home is to put orca up. which isn’t to say that swoosh wouldn’t come to that plan himself, indeed he would have probably, but i just want to reiterate again to my guy @The Orca about how that was a seriously sucky situation; all of us wanted you at F4 with us and the only way to do that was to trick outpost and jason into throwing you under the bus to save me, i’d calculated; @swoosh can give a comment of course as to the above if he disagrees with any of it but i just wanted to out of respect for orca give my ten bucks as to why that went down as it did given that he’s a bro 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Shady Slim

[Shady Slim]

3 hours ago, swoosh said:

You do owe Jason a beer for this if you win, because Shady and myself both voted with our hearts and not our heads there. Ted said he would have voted you out should it got to him tied. Jason's in-thread rants saved you there. And quite frankly, I don't even regret it. 

this is also entirely true. blapping outpost then and there would’ve been the smarter game move and swoosh ted and i knew that; however i can say for me, and swoosh has said the same too from his pov, we felt that jase had sort of stepped out of the bounds of cool guy behaviour and had to intervene; i stick by it too

Edited May 10, 2021 by Shady Slim

[MacReady]

7 hours ago, swoosh said:

That's not true either. After the veto, my initial thought was you. I realized it couldn't be you though and thus the only choice was Orca. He was a last resort. I would have voted to save him in any vote that didn't involve Shady or Ted. I'm not sure why you're acting like you know here when you yourself were out of the loop. You thought I was voting out Shady, so don't claim to know what I was thinking there. 

You just confirmed what you were thinking.  As soon as you realized it couldn't be me, you knew you were voting Orca out.

It was literally only me, you, Jason, Ted, Shady and Orca left.  So if you were voting anyone out but Shady/Ted, you knew immediately that you were voting Orca out. 

So you lied to me and Jason about putting Orca up by saying you were afraid Orca would vote you out instead of Shady when you knew damn well you were going to vote Orca out. 

[MacReady]

3 hours ago, Shady Slim said:

some thoughts as to the orca’s eviction that nobody asked for but i’ll give anyway:

when it was apparent ted was about to win veto i immediately got on to swoosh and said brother you’ve got to tell outpost and jason that if jason puts you up, orca might well vote to save me - and the only way to ensure i go home is to put orca up. which isn’t to say that swoosh wouldn’t come to that plan himself, indeed he would have probably, but i just want to reiterate again to my guy @The Orca about how that was a seriously sucky situation; all of us wanted you at F4 with us and the only way to do that was to trick outpost and jason into throwing you under the bus to save me, i’d calculated; @swoosh can give a comment of course as to the above if he disagrees with any of it but i just wanted to out of respect for orca give my ten bucks as to why that went down as it did given that he’s a bro 

This is exactly what I've been saying, so I don't know why Swoosh has been denying this. 

 

[MacReady]

7 hours ago, swoosh said:

You do owe Jason a beer for this if you win, because Shady and myself both voted with our hearts and not our heads there. Ted said he would have voted you out should it got to him tied. Jason's in-thread rants saved you there. And quite frankly, I don't even regret it. 

 

3 hours ago, Shady Slim said:

this is also entirely true. blapping outpost then and there would’ve been the smarter game move and swoosh ted and i knew that; however i can say for me, and swoosh has said the same too from his pov, we felt that jase had sort of stepped out of the bounds of cool guy behaviour and had to intervene; i stick by it too

At the same time, let's not act like I didn't play this perfectly. 

I know that Jason has a tendency to get a little bit heated when things don't go his way in these games. 

When you, Ted and Jason got into it, I kept my mouth TF shut.  Didn't say a damn thing.  Didn't try to smooth things over.  You know how many times I intervened and tried keeping the peace between certain players all game?  But this time I just let him let loose. 

When he was yelling at me and Dwight and saying we were his enemies and I was giving him an ultimatium, behind the scenes I was calming him down, telling him I wasn't his enemy...

Not only that, but I got every single one of you, @TedLavie and Swoosh to give me your word that you would get Jason out as long as Jason didn't win POV. 

So yes, although it was a better call to get me out, I was not helpless there and I took agency in that whole thing to ensure Jason went there instead of me.

[MacReady]

7 hours ago, swoosh said:

I get that, but I don't think it was just a case of not being a "threat" in the house. I mean, in a game like this, are there really many threats? I considered Outpost one because he won Survivor and proved to be good in challenges. But I'd be hard pressed to name many threats. I can't speak for others though. It's possible I was kept around for that reason, but I just don't buy it. I think the moves Shady and Ted made at the end, turning down deals that would advance their games, just to keep their word to me is telling. I built genuine bonds with the players I worked with. You don't make it the whole game not sitting on the block once without some luck, but there's a lot more to it than that. It would be one thing if I avoided the block by throwing out lies to everybody, but that's far from what happened. The amount of people I worked with is relatively small. I'd bet a lot less than Outpost. Nothing good or bad with that per se, but I'm just not a fan of making everyone seem like their the one. It's why I'd argue me not sitting on the block was more due to my social game than not being a threat, but again I can't speak for what others thought.

This was my exact line to Malf, on April 21st: "Everything is going according to plan. Mission stay off the block." It was after my veto win and then the gopher eviction. I wouldn't say I came into the game with some sort o strategy to stay off the block. That's just not controllable. It was more of a goal that developed into the game than a strategy. The strategy behind it was using people to weaken everyone's support systems, thus making them rely on me. That helped me stay off the block, but just staying off the block just for the sake of saying that, wasn't the intention behind the quote.

Psh.  Can't name any threats.  Must be nice.

I had Finn after me at the start of the game because I made fun of his tummy.

I had Jason, ET, Finn going against me because my alliance of Orca and Pickle wouldn't nominate me and instead made enemies.

I had BCB against me because I called him out for his strategy and told him I was coming after him while you just said so behind the scenes.

I had Josh and Daboyle after me because of how I eliminated them in Survivor and because I admitted my strategy from the beginning. 

I had Gopher, Shady and Ted after me because they wanted to get rid of me as soon as we hit the jury portion.

And I had Jason after me because Dwight and I tried to win an HoH and he took offense to that. 

Also, @Dwight_Schrute, I am calling baloney on Swoosh's strategy of attacking support systems. 

Throughout the entire jury portion he was commiserating on how Ted and Shady got his people into the jury portion and he missed out on getting Daboyle/Josh into the jury portion. 

So going back...

TLO - I got rid of him because he would hold up the game.
Nazgul - This was Shady's baby.  Shady led the charge to get Nazgul out. 
Mission - Me again.  Very quietly me.  I very subtly suggested to Pickle that he would have to put someone up on the block that wouldn't make him another enemy.  Knowing the full time that I would be safer with the ET/FINN/JASON alliance than I would be with the Shady/Ted/Mission alliance (I already had reason to suspect Gopher was with the Shady alliance), I got Mission put up and I got Mission voted out.  So far, I've crumbled more support systems than Swoosh.
BCB- This was the one vote that Swoosh could claim credit for.  At the same time, I helped him because I also wanted BCB gone.  This had nothing to do with a support system. 
Finn - I had full control on this one.  ET and I both knew that if I took him off the block, Finn would escape.  I won veto here, kept nominations the same, Finn went home, I sucked ET in and got him away from Finn.
Pickle - This one he tried to get me out.  He failed. 
Josh - All me.
Daboyle - Don't know how he could claim credit for this as taking away a support system when he told me that Daboyle was part of his.
ET80 - This wasn't his idea.  It was Shady's and Ted's idea. 
Dwight - Again, I don't know how he can say he was attacking my support system.  I was up against you here.  Why attack my support system when you can instead just vote me out? 
Gopher - My baby.  Went after Gopher from the very beginning this cycle.  The plan was ALWAYS to get rid of Gopher.  This one was all me.
Orca - This was just a flat betrayal/lie and had nothing to do with destroying a support system, but maintaining his own.

So I don't see anywhere in any eviction where Swoosh could possibly have taken agency in having a strategy of destroying support systems.  It doesn't add up.  He's great at plotting, but he wasn't a puppetmaster this game.