Official 2021 OL Thread

[THE DUKE]

3 minutes ago, Techbert said:

I exaggerated, but Munoz was on some dog teams. My point is those two labored a lot of losing seasons through no fault of their own.

8 winning seasons, 5 losing seasons, two of those coming at the end of his career, so until it fell apart at the end of Munoz career (not coincidentally when Mike Brown took over) where he missed 11 games over those two years , so really 8 winning (including 2 Super Bowls) and 3 losing seasons over the bulk of his career. I know the Bengals reputation, well earned over the 90's, but pretty much in the wrong here.

[Techbert]

47 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

8 winning seasons, 5 losing seasons, two of those coming at the end of his career, so until it fell apart at the end of Munoz career (not coincidentally when Mike Brown took over) where he missed 11 games over those two years , so really 8 winning (including 2 Super Bowls) and 3 losing seasons over the bulk of his career. I know the Bengals reputation, well earned over the 90's, but pretty much in the wrong here.

I count 6 losing season and only 5 winning seasons in those 13 years.  Soooo... discrepancy.

Love Munoz, which is why I used him. He kept Kenny Anderson and Boomer Esiason healthy but despite his awesome run blocking and pass protection he was not enough to get the Bengals into consistent winning status, even with their all-time two greatest quarterbacks.

Loved your use of the Mike Brown card, by the way, but I only count 1992 as a single losing season when he was not able to play his best late in his career. I think we can agree that Mike Brown had a bigger impact on that team's won-loss than perhaps the greatest left tackle ever.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Techbert

[THE DUKE]

2 minutes ago, Techbert said:

I count 6 losing season and only 5 winning seasons in those 13 years.  Soooo... discrepancy.

My bad, I only counted the losing seasons (80, 83, 85, 97, 91, 92) and two of those years were 8-8, not exactly basement dwellers.  The one I overlooked was '83. Even with the disastrous last two years, a career record of 98-102 (and a 90-78 record before those bad last two years, of which he only played 21 of 32 games).  Until the last couple years there was only two seasons under 7 wins, 80 and 87.  Eight playoff games and two super bowl appearances

Compare that to Joe Thomas' 48-128, no playoff appearances

[Techbert]

On 4/5/2021 at 11:34 PM, Chiefer said:

With that arm length he might slip to early day 2

All the tackles it seems have 33 inch arms this year. I'd say LE is 50/50 for day 2, but it may depend on who the Chiefs like.

[Techbert]

2 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

My bad, I only counted the losing seasons (80, 83, 85, 97, 91, 92) and two of those years were 8-8, not exactly basement dwellers.  The one I overlooked was '83. Even with the disastrous last two years, a career record of 98-102 (and a 90-78 record before those bad last two years, of which he only played 21 of 32 games).  Until the last couple years there was only two seasons under 7 wins, 80 and 87.  Eight playoff games and two super bowl appearances

Compare that to Joe Thomas' 48-128, no playoff appearances

So neither has a winning record despite their greatness. I don't want to argue about tackles anymore, cuz my point with Sewell was about great guard play.

 

[Forge]

I've been thinking about it, and I think Brady Christensen is a DND for me. I mean, if you take a flier on anyone in round 6 / 7 it's whatever, but I don't think I'm drafting him. 

[CWood21]

34 minutes ago, Forge said:

I've been thinking about it, and I think Brady Christensen is a DND for me. I mean, if you take a flier on anyone in round 6 / 7 it's whatever, but I don't think I'm drafting him. 

Because?

[Forge]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Because?

Traits. Seems like a bad combo. I don't know where he's successful in the nfl. Barely 32 arms, don't like his strength for the interior,  25 years old so he's probably maxed physically. Just not digging that. 

There are others I'd prefer to work with

[Chrissooner49er]

On 4/25/2021 at 4:51 PM, Forge said:

Traits. Seems like a bad combo. I don't know where he's successful in the nfl. Barely 32 arms, don't like his strength for the interior,  25 years old so he's probably maxed physically. Just not digging that. 

There are others I'd prefer to work with

I get the strength and arm length, but why would being 25 be such a negative? I've seen this many times, especially with prospects connected to BYU (for missions) but not exclusively. In many cases, you are likely getting a more mature prospect. 

Shrug. 

[Forge]

14 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I get the strength and arm length, but why would being 25 be such a negative? I've seen this many times, especially with prospects connected to BYU (for missions) but not exclusively. In many cases, you are likely getting a more mature prospect. 

Shrug. 

Older prospects give far less room for improvement and they are full grown men playing 19 / 20 year old sometimes.  Of course they should have success, so the tape can be misleading. Age is a big flag.  History shows they generate lower career AVs, NEPs,  etc. In his case specifically, if he can't hang at tackle, he needs to move inside. He's not strong enough / big enough as it is and at his age, he's likely maxed out physically. You're not likely to see huge growth from him in that regard. 

Age is also a prominent talking point in the NHL draft...sometimes even more so. A difference of months can be hotly debated. 

[BRANDON26841X]

3 minutes ago, Forge said:

Older prospects give far less room for improvement and they are full grown men playing 19 / 20 year old sometimes.  Of course they should have success, so the tape can be misleading. Age is a big flag.  History shows they generate lower career AVs, NEPs,  etc. In his case specifically, if he can hang at tackle, he needs to move inside. He's not strong enough / big enough as it is and at his age, he's likely maxed out physically at his age. You're not likely to see huge growth from him physically. 

Age is also a prominent talking point in the NHL draft...sometimes even more so. A difference of months can be hotly debated. 

It's a big deal in the MLB draft too. Teams don't love drafting 19 year old high schoolers. 

[MOSteelers56]

The guy who cemented the age debate to me was Danny Watkins. Man, that guy stunk. I don't want a physically mature prospect. I want someone who is going to continue growing. 

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, MOSteelers56 said:

The guy who cemented the age debate to me was Danny Watkins. Man, that guy stunk. I don't want a physically mature prospect. I want someone who is going to continue growing. 

I think Danny Watkins had bigger issues. My recollection is that he didn't like playing football and didn't give much effort in the NFL. Kyle Long was an older prospect who turned into a great OL. Obviously, there's a risk to it. But I think you just have to trust your eyes. Just assume there isn't the same potential to grow physically as there is in a younger prospect. (Cooper Kupp is another example of an older prospect who is a very good pro.)

[BoltsFan937]

Garrett Bolles has joined the chat...

[BayRaider]

My OT Rankings - 

1) Penei Sewell - #2 Prospect in draft

2) Christian Darrisaw - #12 Prospect in draft

3) Rashawn Slater - #14 Prospect in draft

4) Samuel Cosmi - Late 1st Round Grade

5) Liam Eichenberg - Late 1st Round Grade

6) Teven Jenkins - Early 2nd Round Grade

7) Walker Little - Mid 2nd Round Grade

8 ) Alex Leatherwood - Late 2nd Round Grade

9) Stone Forsythe - Late 2nd Round Grade

10) Dillion Radunz - Early 3rd Round Grade

11) Jalen Mayfield - Mid 3rd Round Grade

12) Spencer Brown - Late 3rd Round Grade

13) Jackson Carman - Late 3rd Round Grade

14) Brady Christensen - Early 4th Round Grade

Notes:

- Sewell I see as a Franchise LT for the next ten years pretty easy.

- Darrisaw I see as a Franchise RT for the next decade, but could also play LT if you really need him too.

- Slater to me is better suited as a Center in the NFL, but he could be an Above-Average Tackle at either spot.

- Cosmi I think will be a very solid starting RT for a decade and the draftnik community is sleeping on him. He's battle tested, extremely good run blocker, and also a very good pass protector who shut down many elite rushers. 

- Forsythe I think teams will be higher on than the draftnik community. 34" arms and outstanding pass protection. Needs to be coached on run blocking. 

- Radunz I'm a little lower on than most. Pretty raw, and pretty undersized. Boom or Bust LT.

- Teven Jenkins, Jalen Mayfield, Jackson Carman, and Brady Christensen are all guards to me in the NFL. I feel Jenkins is getting massively overhyped because of his "mean streak" and play style. He would need a lotttt of coaching, and technique is not very good, including his footwork. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by BayRaider