NYRaider Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 13 hours ago, drfrey13 said: I agree with Ferrell not being a great athlete and it shows in his games at Clemson but Arnette I do not. I would have liked for him to have done more at the combine but you can see from his play at OSU he was a good athlete. We can sit here and talk about conspiracy theories on how the clock started early and he actually has 4.3 speed, etc. At the end of the day his official 40 time from the combine was 4.56, he's the only CB in NFL history to run that slow/have 30" arms and be selected in the 1st round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said: That's not even optimism, it's blind faith lol Ferrell has 6.5 sacks through 26 games and 4.5 of them came in two games against the Chargers his rookie season and the Jets last season, two of the worst OL's in the league. Look I personally would love nothing more than for Ferrell to transform into Khalil Mack Jr and Damon Arnette to transform into Jalen Ramsey Jr. But I'm realistic, neither of them has shown anything that gives me hope, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Ferrell has 6.5 sacks through 26 games and 4.5 of them came in two games against the Chargers his rookie season and the Jets last season, two of the worst OL's in the league. Look I personally would love nothing more than for Ferrell to transform into Khalil Mack Jr and Damon Arnette to transform into Jalen Ramsey Jr. But I'm realistic, neither of them has shown anything that gives me hope, lol. Trade block. Years 1-3 were Gruden screwing everything up. Year 4 should start fixing it Literally what he did in Tampa lol. Give the guy a solid base, he'll erode it ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Trade block. Years 1-3 were Gruden screwing everything up. Year 4 should start fixing it Literally what he did in Tampa lol. Give the guy a solid base, he'll erode it ASAP. The biggest complaint I have with Gruden is that we're in year 4 and we still lack an identity as a team. We tore the roster down and rebuilt it, yet still don't have any one positional group on the team you can look at and say that's what makes us good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 hours ago, NYRaider said: You were saying that he missed tackles because his arm was broken and he was 175 pounds. What's his excuse for missing tackles 20 pounds heavier when his arm isn't broken? That was the whole thing I just showed you. Sometimes people just miss tackles because they missed tackles. No one is guaranteed to make the tackle because the other guy gets paid too. That said the reason why he missed so many tackles last year is because he was 175 pounds with a cast trying to tackle receivers that if they’re at least 190 have 15 pounds on him. And that’s only 190. Imagine when they’re 225. Keep in mind all of the corners & safeties I just showed you that missed tackles at their actual playing weight and then think of a guy playing 175 out of college with essentially one arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 13 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: That was the whole thing I just showed you. Sometimes people just miss tackles because they missed tackles. No one is guaranteed to make the tackle because the other guy gets paid too. That said the reason why he missed so many tackles last year is because he was 175 pounds with a cast trying to tackle receivers that if they’re at least 190 have 15 pounds on him. And that’s only 190. Imagine when they’re 225. Keep in mind all of the corners & safeties I just showed you that missed tackles at their actual playing weight and then think of a guy playing 175 out of college with essentially one arm. I would love nothing more than for Arnette to be an elite player. I just personally don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 19 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I think we can all agree that CF was over drafted and is an average athlete at best. He was surrounded by superior talent in Clemson and that gave the illusion that he was a better player than he actually was. I was not a fan of this pick on draft day and wanted either Allen or Oliver. Both would have been a better pick than CF. When you look at the best edge defenders in the league, what do they all have in common? Elite athleticism, burst, and great bend off the edge. Which is why Maxx Crosby has had success despite being super raw from a technical aspect, he's a freak athlete. Ferrell not doing a full workout at the combine worked out in his favor because if he had done a full workout his average athleticism would've been on full display. The numbers from the few drills he did participate in were extremely underwhelming, he was in the 42nd percentile in 3-cone drill, 54th percentile in 20-yard shuttle, and 30th percentile in the 60 yard shuttle. There were 3 other edge prospects in the class with elite athleticism and similar production to Ferrell in college on the board. But we went with Ferrell because he "fit the scheme." For comparisons sake, let's look at those 3 edge players college production/combine numbers in comparison to Ferrell's. Ferrell (6'5" 265): 11.5 sacks, 20 TFL in the ACC Montez Sweat (6'5" 260): 12.0 sacks, 14.5 TFL in the SEC Combine numbers: 99th percentile in 40 yard dash, 81st percentile in vertical leap, 91st percentile in broad jump, 84th percentile in 3-cone drill, 78th percentile in 20-yard shuttle Brian Burns (6'5" 249): 10 sacks, 15.5 TFL in the ACC Combine numbers: 97th percentile in 40 yard dash, 81st percentile in vertical leap, 97th percentile in broad jump, 83rd percentile in 3 cone drill Josh Allen (6'5" 262): 17 sacks, 21.5 TFL in the SEC Combine numbers: 89th percentile in 40 yard dash, 65th percentile in broad jump, 63rd percentile in 3 cone drill, 88th percentile in 20 yard shuttle Allen, Sweat, and Burns all look like guys that can be premier pass rushers in the NFL, Ferrell does not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 19 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Arnette's athleticism is questionable and what bothered me most was his age. He is now 25, ran a 4.5 40, no matter what excuses fans come up with, that is all we have to go off of. 25 years old, was supposed to be pro ready and was flat out horrific last year. Arnette had a 3rd round grade by most people and we reached out of desperation after missing on Byron Jones in free agency. As I've said before I hope that Arnette develops into an All-Pro, I just don't think he has that type of talent. A lot of players have bad/okay rookie seasons, but they'll still flash high end talent. Arnette was 23 years old at Ohio State on a stacked defense and came in as an older rookie and never showed anything that made you say, wow this kid might be something special. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dessie Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: When you look at the best edge defenders in the league, what do they all have in common? Elite athleticism, burst, and great bend off the edge. Which is why Maxx Crosby has had success despite being super raw from a technical aspect, he's a freak athlete. Ferrell not doing a full workout at the combine worked out in his favor because if he had done a full workout his average athleticism would've been on full display. The numbers from the few drills he did participate in were extremely underwhelming, he was in the 42nd percentile in 3-cone drill, 54th percentile in 20-yard shuttle, and 30th percentile in the 60 yard shuttle. There were 3 other edge prospects in the class with elite athleticism and similar production to Ferrell in college on the board. But we went with Ferrell because he "fit the scheme." For comparisons sake, let's look at those 3 edge players college production/combine numbers in comparison to Ferrell's. Ferrell (6'5" 265): 11.5 sacks, 20 TFL in the ACC Montez Sweat (6'5" 260): 12.0 sacks, 14.5 TFL in the SEC Combine numbers: 99th percentile in 40 yard dash, 81st percentile in vertical leap, 91st percentile in broad jump, 84th percentile in 3-cone drill, 78th percentile in 20-yard shuttle Brian Burns (6'5" 249): 10 sacks, 15.5 TFL in the ACC Combine numbers: 97th percentile in 40 yard dash, 81st percentile in vertical leap, 97th percentile in broad jump, 83rd percentile in 3 cone drill Josh Allen (6'5" 262): 17 sacks, 21.5 TFL in the SEC Combine numbers: 89th percentile in 40 yard dash, 65th percentile in broad jump, 63rd percentile in 3 cone drill, 88th percentile in 20 yard shuttle Allen, Sweat, and Burns all look like guys that can be premier pass rushers in the NFL, Ferrell does not. You thought Ferrell was a good pick at the time and that he had good athleticism. A lot in here were concerned about his explosiveness and that at #4 he was not a value pick. He’s a decent DE but as a top 5 pick he was always going to struggle to justify his draft status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: I would love nothing more than for Arnette to be an elite player. I just personally don't see it happening. I have no idea what’s gonna happen with Arnette. I was just saying that last year couldnt have been indicative of the type of player that he’s going to be Edited August 29, 2021 by Jeremy408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 19 hours ago, NYRaider said: We can sit here and talk about conspiracy theories on how the clock started early and he actually has 4.3 speed, etc. At the end of the day his official 40 time from the combine was 4.56, he's the only CB in NFL history to run that slow/have 30" arms and be selected in the 1st round. It is not a conspiracy theory. The starter stops guys all the time because the make a movement that would throw there time off. He just did not catch Arnette's. Someone here posted a video once that showed the movement. Scouts from multiple teams clocked him between 4.3 and 4.7. All of this points to his time being off. None of this is to defend his play on the field however. Just saying that his struggles on the field do not come from his athletic ability which he has plenty off. Both struggles and athletic ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 17 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: That was the whole thing I just showed you. Sometimes people just miss tackles because they missed tackles. No one is guaranteed to make the tackle because the other guy gets paid too. That said the reason why he missed so many tackles last year is because he was 175 pounds with a cast trying to tackle receivers that if they’re at least 190 have 15 pounds on him. And that’s only 190. Imagine when they’re 225. Keep in mind all of the corners & safeties I just showed you that missed tackles at their actual playing weight and then think of a guy playing 175 out of college with essentially one arm. My beef with Arnette wasn't just getting shrugged off tackles. Dude looked like he was tacking Lennay Kekua out there, eating a faceful of turf, and he was hardly a factor in coverage. 175 and a broken arm or 190 with both T-Rex'ers working, he was taking horrible angles and blowing coverages. I can forgive a one-armed guy not being as effective at wrapping up as would be ideal, but that wasn't what I saw most of the time. I saw him face planting and leaving guys wide open in the flats and looking about as poised as Leavitt out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 4 hours ago, Dessie said: You thought Ferrell was a good pick at the time and that he had good athleticism. No I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 6 hours ago, NYRaider said: When you look at the best edge defenders in the league, what do they all have in common? Elite athleticism, burst, and great bend off the edge. Which is why Maxx Crosby has had success despite being super raw from a technical aspect, he's a freak athlete. Ferrell not doing a full workout at the combine worked out in his favor because if he had done a full workout his average athleticism would've been on full display. The numbers from the few drills he did participate in were extremely underwhelming, he was in the 42nd percentile in 3-cone drill, 54th percentile in 20-yard shuttle, and 30th percentile in the 60 yard shuttle. There were 3 other edge prospects in the class with elite athleticism and similar production to Ferrell in college on the board. But we went with Ferrell because he "fit the scheme." For comparisons sake, let's look at those 3 edge players college production/combine numbers in comparison to Ferrell's. Ferrell (6'5" 265): 11.5 sacks, 20 TFL in the ACC Montez Sweat (6'5" 260): 12.0 sacks, 14.5 TFL in the SEC Combine numbers: 99th percentile in 40 yard dash, 81st percentile in vertical leap, 91st percentile in broad jump, 84th percentile in 3-cone drill, 78th percentile in 20-yard shuttle Brian Burns (6'5" 249): 10 sacks, 15.5 TFL in the ACC Combine numbers: 97th percentile in 40 yard dash, 81st percentile in vertical leap, 97th percentile in broad jump, 83rd percentile in 3 cone drill Josh Allen (6'5" 262): 17 sacks, 21.5 TFL in the SEC Combine numbers: 89th percentile in 40 yard dash, 65th percentile in broad jump, 63rd percentile in 3 cone drill, 88th percentile in 20 yard shuttle Allen, Sweat, and Burns all look like guys that can be premier pass rushers in the NFL, Ferrell does not. Good post. I was a big proponent of Montez Sweat at the time but admit I was suckered in with the 'scheme fit' spin put out by the front office. I still think Ferrell can be a solid DE at the NFL level but that's really what you look for in the 2nd and 3rd round not a top 5 pick obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, Darbsk said: Good post. I was a big proponent of Montez Sweat at the time but admit I was suckered in with the 'scheme fit' spin put out by the front office. What exactly was our scheme? To generate pressure once in a blue moon and kinda stop the run? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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