2021 Raider Depth Chart

[Dessie]

15 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

If Thomas couldn't unlock his potential on one of the most talented, well coached defenses in the league.... I'm not optimistic he does it in Vegas. 

DT is still a problem. Jefferson was cut in Buffalo, Thomas is a bust. Irvin had a moment 3 seasons ago. Philon was average before signing in AZ.

I don't see anyone who's going to dramatically change the Dline personally. 

Hard to argue with tbh. D-line is a huge question mark but hoping Bradley has identified the guys he needs and he’s happy with what he’s got. Realistically this defense isn’t going to be fixed in one off season. I’ll be happy if it’s just one part of the D that needs fixing in a year, worry is it could be all 3 levels. 

[big_palooka]

7 minutes ago, Dessie said:

Hard to argue with tbh. D-line is a huge question mark but hoping Bradley has identified the guys he needs and he’s happy with what he’s got. Realistically this defense isn’t going to be fixed in one off season. I’ll be happy if it’s just one part of the D that needs fixing in a year, worry is it could be all 3 levels. 

I think they improve from bottom 3 to bottom 3rd of the league.

Bradley brings a better element and Yannik brings at least promise to the pass rush, but no one else on the team is capable of being a consistent rusher. I still see issues at DT as addressed. The LBs suck and have little depth (some fans will hang on to the Littleton dream another year). Corners are suspect. Heyward helps, but he is 31 and coming off a down year. Safeties are young and inexperienced and Abram will get way more time than he deserves to sort his game out before a rookie takes over. 

I'm pessimistic clearly. The defensive talent just sucks. It plain sucks. Everything is predicated on "hope" of development, change of scenery, returning to form or rookies filling big roles. WAAAAAY to many question marks to be a solid unit. 

[drfrey13]

12 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

You're right. That's what the video i posted above shows.

Pro Football Reference has him as a DE in 2018 and a DT/lolb in 2019.  I have less of an issue with Jefferson than I do with Thomas.  Jefferson is the closest to a starter that we have and his contract is reasonable.  I think it is a little to much in the guarantee department but if you think he makes the team no matter what then it is fine.

Edited May 7, 2021 by drfrey13

[drfrey13]

7 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Understand the sentiment regarding guaranteed money but it's also a negotiation and if you want your guy sometimes you have to give a little. Maybe the guys we really wanted demanded that guaranteed money or else they sign elsewhere. And whilst it's fine for fans to just say, fine, just sign someone else for less guaranteed as they're all about he same skill level the team likely targeted Thomas for example for a specific reason and hopefully really did their homework and thought this is the player we want for our scheme. I don't have a problem with it so long as the numbers are realistic, for example, I wouldn't want to sign him for 7mil just because we think he's our guy.

The contract amount was not outrageous but the guarantee forces your hand.  They knew as soon as him and Jefferson signed he was gone.  We need to sign Thomas' agent to negotiate contracts for us.  He is probably the best talent of that entire negotiation to get him almost 100% fully guaranteed.  Must be a great poker player.

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

If Thomas couldn't unlock his potential on one of the most talented, well coached defenses in the league.... I'm not optimistic he does it in Vegas. 

DT is still a problem. Jefferson was cut in Buffalo, Thomas is a bust. Irvin had a moment 3 seasons ago. Philon was average before signing in AZ.

I don't see anyone who's going to dramatically change the Dline personally. 

I think Jefferson and Philon are average starters. Thomas played end in 3-4 defense, and now stictly going focus on interior pass rusher. I don't feel like DT is a strength or confident. I just think we could get by with the first two, and hopefully Thomas breaks out. I feel alot more confident Max, Ferrell, Mullen, and Abram will develop this year. I also think Littleton will look more like his Ram self. 

[Humble_Beast]

I knew we signed another guard. feel like we could have did better. That new guy and Cotton are just jags

[Humble_Beast]

[big_palooka]

42 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said:

I think Jefferson and Philon are average starters. Thomas played end in 3-4 defense, and now stictly going focus on interior pass rusher. I don't feel like DT is a strength or confident. I just think we could get by with the first two, and hopefully Thomas breaks out. I feel alot more confident Max, Ferrell, Mullen, and Abram will develop this year. I also think Littleton will look more like his Ram self. 

Just hope baby! Same thing every offseason with this fan base. No actual talent, just hope someone breaks out or develops despite the fact they've shown little to give fans hope. 

[Dessie]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I think they improve from bottom 3 to bottom 3rd of the league.

Bradley brings a better element and Yannik brings at least promise to the pass rush, but no one else on the team is capable of being a consistent rusher. I still see issues at DT as addressed. The LBs suck and have little depth (some fans will hang on to the Littleton dream another year). Corners are suspect. Heyward helps, but he is 31 and coming off a down year. Safeties are young and inexperienced and Abram will get way more time than he deserves to sort his game out before a rookie takes over. 

I'm pessimistic clearly. The defensive talent just sucks. It plain sucks. Everything is predicated on "hope" of development, change of scenery, returning to form or rookies filling big roles. WAAAAAY to many question marks to be a solid unit. 

I’m sensing you are not a fan of Abram @big_palooka? 😂

I’m hopeful with a better scheme and better players on D he doesn’t feel as though he has to make the play all the time and just does his job and as a result we see an improved Abram. 

No doubt he’s a huge question mark atm. 

[big_palooka]

3 minutes ago, Dessie said:

I’m sensing you are not a fan of Abram @big_palooka? 😂

I’m hopeful with a better scheme and better players on D he doesn’t feel as though he has to make the play all the time and just does his job and as a result we see an improved Abram. 

No doubt he’s a huge question mark atm. 

I've made no bones about how I feel about Abum. He's trash and needs to be taken to the curb before he stinks up the place. 

He's been the same player since college. Fans thinking the staff will reign him in are kidding themselves. Remember Hard Knocks Gruden talking to him about calming down because he was going get someone hurt. That was in training camp as a rookie. How's reigning him in going?

The fact Bradley added multiple safeties this offseason tells me they are one step closer to realizing he needs replaced. 

I hate it, because it was a wasted pick. But he's shown you who he is and you might as well believe him because it isn't changing.  He's not made for todays game. He'll be in the XFL where he can suck but make big hits for people who crave it soon as The Rock gets that up and running.

[Humble_Beast]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Just hope baby! Same thing every offseason with this fan base. No actual talent, just hope someone breaks out or develops despite the fact they've shown little to give fans hope. 

you expect an all star at every position? idk about online Raider fans, always seem so lost 

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I think they improve from bottom 3 to bottom 3rd of the league.

Bradley brings a better element and Yannik brings at least promise to the pass rush, but no one else on the team is capable of being a consistent rusher. I still see issues at DT as addressed. The LBs suck and have little depth (some fans will hang on to the Littleton dream another year). Corners are suspect. Heyward helps, but he is 31 and coming off a down year. Safeties are young and inexperienced and Abram will get way more time than he deserves to sort his game out before a rookie takes over. 

I'm pessimistic clearly. The defensive talent just sucks. It plain sucks. Everything is predicated on "hope" of development, change of scenery, returning to form or rookies filling big roles. WAAAAAY to many question marks to be a solid unit. 

So defensive players don't make improvement from their 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd year?

 

[NYRaider]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Just hope baby! Same thing every offseason with this fan base. No actual talent, just hope someone breaks out or develops despite the fact they've shown little to give fans hope. 

Commitment to mediocrity - Mark Davis

[MrOaktown_56]

I think the missing piece on this team is an impact DT. I think LB, edge, and safety make marked improvements this year. Still will be some inconsistency at CB.

[Jeremy408]

18 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Just hope baby! Same thing every offseason with this fan base. No actual talent, just hope someone breaks out or develops despite the fact they've shown little to give fans hope. 

let’s look at the roster differences by playing a game of would you rather?
Offensive Differences

#2 running back: Devonta Booker or Kenyan Drake?

Veteran Wide Receiver: Nelson Aguilar or John Brown?

Center: Rodney Hudson or Andre James? 

Left Guard: Denzel good(Richie incognito didn't play last year) or Richie incognito?

Right Guard: Gabe Jackson or Denzel Good?

Right Tackle: Sam young(Trent Brown didn't really play last year) or Alex Leatherwood?

Defensive Differences

Defensive end: Max Crosby or Yannick Ngakoue?

Third down pass rusher: Arden key or Max Crosby?

3 technique defensive tackles: Malik collins/Maurice hurst/David Irving(straight out of retirement) or Solomon Thomas/Darius Philon(hasn't played football in two years)/ Quinton Jefferson/ David Irving(with a full off-season to get in shape)?

Linebackers: Cory Littleton/ Nick Morrow/Nick Kwiatkoski(under DC Paul Guenther and LB coach David Lippicott) or Cory Littleton/ Nick Morrow/Nick Kwiatkoski(under DC Gus Bradley and LB coach Richard Smith)?

Cornerbacks: Trayvon Mullen/ Damon Arnette(With the defensive line we had last year) or Trayvon Mullen/Casey Hayward(With the defensive line we have this year)?

Jonathan Abrams: In an interchangeable safety role(with the no possibility that anyone can take his job) or in a strictly box safety role(with the possibility that Gilespie can take his job?

Free Safety: Jeff Heath/Erik Harris or Trayvon Moehrig?

I'm curious to know your guys thoughts.