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Rumor: Raiders pursuing a 3 team deal to acquire Dehshaun Watson


NYRaider

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2 hours ago, Jerry said:

A 30 year old QB is hardly an issue in today's NFL IMO.  There are QBs in their mid 30s still putting up respectable numbers.  Rivers, Roethlisberger, Stafford, Ryan, Brees, a lot of QBs.  Brady is clearly a robot so he doesn't count.  But for us to consider trading him during what I would consider are his peak years, is just crazy.  

I meant more that I can see Carr retiring by 35. I don't think he's long for this game and has callings outside the game. 

2 hours ago, Jerry said:

The rest of your post is just speculation and prediction.  I predict we win the SB in 2-3 years.  I'll speculate that DC will win MVP and Jon Gruden will win coach of the year after we go 15-2 and defeat KC in a week 17 match that has #1 seed implications.  I'll have 50 yard line tickets to the SB.  It will be glorious.

Sure, it's prediction based on the facts that are afforded. This organization as a whole has been terrible for 2 decades. Gruden's team collapsed 2 seasons in a row. Their defensive roster is a joke. They've spent a ton of high draft picks on defense and not one looks like a future star. 

What is there that points to this being a playoff team in 2021 and beyond? They do not have a top 7 roster in the AFC currently. 

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3 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I meant more that I can see Carr retiring by 35. I don't think he's long for this game and has callings outside the game. 

Sure, it's prediction based on the facts that are afforded. This organization as a whole has been terrible for 2 decades. Gruden's team collapsed 2 seasons in a row. Their defensive roster is a joke. They've spent a ton of high draft picks on defense and not one looks like a future star. 

What is there that points to this being a playoff team in 2021 and beyond? They do not have a top 7 roster in the AFC currently. 

Hope.  That and essentially the possibility that we can become a top 7 team during this offseason.  We went 8-8.  Just need to find 2-3 more wins to make it next season.  I think we can get that by improving our defense by 10 spots, taking it from 29th to 19th.  I think it can be done.  I think that can be done and I think our offense can improve even more.  Especially if we get D. Good and N. Agholor resigned.  I just think its really possible.  Like a 75% chance that we can greatly improve.  I know everyone is saying that the Chargers will hop us because of Herbert and him going into his second year, but he already played really, really well.  For him to improve in his second year is questionable.  He also has to deal with a new HC and new OC, which may backfire.  I just think there are a lot of factors to consider when it comes to next season.  I'm not counting us out.  Not until we're actually out of playoff contention.  Especially if we find a way to sign 2-5 players for our defense that help us turn it around overnight.  It can happen, it has before in the NFL, it can happen for us.  (OPTIMISM!)

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2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Which is horrifying because we've had 5 first round picks the last two draft classes and we're still 2-3 good drafts away from being competitive. 

That's what happens when you draft horribly. They had a load of resources and did nothing with it. Didn't try to trade and get the right players and reached for their needs.

It still blows my mind that with 5 frps, the didn't make a single trade up or down in the draft. They did nothing with those resources. It's baffling. Zero creativity.  Gruden hired Mayock and did..... that. 

1 hour ago, G said:

We either need to go all in and get the defenders we need to in it now

Problem with this, going all in free agency never plays out the way you hope (see 2020). The type player they need, which are impact players on each level of defense are hard to find. And the ones out there (Watt as example) isn't coming to this team. That is why the draft is so important for teams like the Raiders.

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3 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Hope.  That and essentially the possibility that we can become a top 7 team during this offseason.  We went 8-8.  Just need to find 2-3 more wins to make it next season.  I think we can get that by improving our defense by 10 spots, taking it from 29th to 19th.  I think it can be done.  I think that can be done and I think our offense can improve even more.  Especially if we get D. Good and N. Agholor resigned.  I just think its really possible.  Like a 75% chance that we can greatly improve.  I know everyone is saying that the Chargers will hop us because of Herbert and him going into his second year, but he already played really, really well.  For him to improve in his second year is questionable.  He also has to deal with a new HC and new OC, which may backfire.  I just think there are a lot of factors to consider when it comes to next season.  I'm not counting us out.  Not until we're actually out of playoff contention.  Especially if we find a way to sign 2-5 players for our defense that help us turn it around overnight.  It can happen, it has before in the NFL, it can happen for us.  (OPTIMISM!)

To each there own. I've seen enough of this team to know hope and optimism often never materialize. 

Improving the defense 10 spots is really optimistic. They were a bottom 3 defense! They talent sucks and they will likely get second tier free agents. But it comes down to who's going to rush the passer for me? That guy isn't on the roster, I don't see him in FA, so where is the pass rush coming from? I see the defense improving, being bottom third in the league. 24-26. Offense, I think it's more likely they 10-12 range.  

In the AFC right now the Bills, Chiefs, Colts, Titans, Ravens, Steelers, Browns, Dolphins all have better rosters than the Raiders. And I'd argue better coaching. And the Patriots are better coached and have to think they don't stay down.

Certainly feasible if things break right they can get in. But they need to crush this offseason. 

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19 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Equally as funny as assuming Tom Brady would've whipped our lackluster troupe of practice squadders into some kind of transcendent team as he did the Bucs who had at least 5× the overall talent we did on both sides of the ball. A HoF TE, 2 HoF level WRs, 2 RBs who have top 10 of their time potential, a HoF caliber DT, a potential top 5-10 DT, a potential HoF EDGE, one of the most dynamic sack masters in the NFL, a low key to 10-15 LB, one of the best LBs currently playing.....yeah definitely not even close to the 07 Patriots......riiiiight.

I wasn't one of the ones saying Brady would've came to our team and transformed us into a SB contender. 

But yeah i think you're overrating the Bucs this past year based off name value. Gronk of 2020 is not a HOF caliber player. Mike Evans could make the HOF, but he's never been universally considered a top 5 receiver in his 7 year career. Godwin is a great player but has one 1,000 yard season in his career in a season where Jameis threw the ball the most out of any QB in the league last year. AB came in late fresh out the rap studio and was a role player for them. Ronald Jones and Leonard Fournette were both considered busts before this year. Jones was a high 2nd round pick averaging 3.8 ypc with less then 800 yards in his career. Fournette was cut by the jags and almost got cut again by the Bucs in december. Suh is a HOF player for his career, but he's been on 3 teams his last four years. Still a good player. Vea was injured most of the year. Devin white is a one dimensional player according to @oakdb36 😆

Where would you rank the Bucs for SB winners of the past decade? I feel like you believe we just watched one the greatest teams all time.

19 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

From a talent perspective, this is one of, if not the most talented team Brady has ever been a part of. 

Sure from name value standpoint. However, they were not the most cohesive team brady has been apart of. Cohesion beats pure talent in most team sports. I feel like next year they will be even better with more chemistry.

19 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

The 07 team was great, but they were also heavy favorites in a division with the 1-15 Dolphins, 4-12 Jets, and 7-9 Bills. There's 6 wins right there. Going 16-0 will forever be impressive, but lets be real- they were also within 13 points of going 12-4  with 2 losses against the 8-8 Eagles and 5-11 Ravens. It's not like they were flawless. 

The 2020 Bucs played in a much tougher division competing with New Orleans and still came within a mere 9 points of going 14-2. So simply citing the 07 Patriots because they went 16-0 isn't going to prove much at all in terms of Brady having more or less talent around him this year.

It's beyond obvious that he had far more talent this year and managed lesser regular season results. Probably because he's a 43 year old QB and not a 28 year old one. Which is why it's hilarious for anyone to pretend he would've come here and made a big difference. He landed in a perfect situation. 28 year old Tom Brady would've probably had the 2020 Bucs 16-0 with blowout performances. 

To say that it took Brady for the Bucs to get there this year is severely overrating Brady if nothing else. A decent enough QB should've gotten them there. Considering Brady's last couple of seasons in New England and some of his dud performances this year, it's not a disservice at all to say that Brady probably kept that squad from reaching their full potential in the W/L column and statistics. His body hasn't gone full Manning yet, but strip away his aura and he's an average QB physically anymore. It's impressive at his age, but average nonetheless. Saying otherwise is disrespectful to the rest of the players on that team. 

In perhaps the most challenging abnormal season to date, a strong, respected, proven leader like Brady was needed to bring a team like the Bucs with a collection of stars all together. Looking at the roster and saying "oh they had such and such, of course they should've won the SB. Any QB could've done that!" is a disservice to the job brady did. Its like saying "oh well of course Mahomes puts up the numbers he does. He has Kelce and Hill! anybody could do that"

The fact that Brady kept AB in check for weeks is worth a nobel prize nomination. 

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6 minutes ago, Jerry said:

Good news for us.  Don't need our division getting any tougher.

Hopefully McClain is right.

But yeah, if we don’t get Watson then the one team I really don’t want to see him on is Denver. This division would be brutal.

Edited by Nightmare
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On 2/20/2021 at 10:36 AM, Jerry said:

Last place I want him is in Miami.  They're a QB away from being a contender IMO.

I think they're still lacking in terms of offensive weapons and the draft capital and pieces they'd have to give up to acquire Watson would limit their ability to add more. 

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1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

I think they're still lacking in terms of offensive weapons and the draft capital and pieces they'd have to give up to acquire Watson would limit their ability to add more. 

Texans didn't have a lot of offensive firepower either, so I could see him doing just fine with Miami.  Biggest difference is going from a bottom 5 defense to a top 5 defense.  They could find talent in FA at WR too.  They'd make the playoffs IMO.

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