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2021 off-season discussion


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1 hour ago, BEASToftheEAST4 said:

No thanks to Ertz. The guy is not what he used to be and I don’t see him helping out this team enough to warrant the draft capital we’d need to give up and the amount of cap space he’d eat.

Pass

Plus I'm hopeful that Brycen Hopkins can fill in the TE2 role. I would guess the team is going that route. 

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23 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Plus I'm hopeful that Brycen Hopkins can fill in the TE2 role. I would guess the team is going that route. 

I agree with this. I want to see what Hopkins can do. I just find it very interesting to see where Snead/McVay's interest lies considering our cap situation. 

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9 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

I agree with this. I want to see what Hopkins can do. I just find it very interesting to see where Snead/McVay's interest lies considering our cap situation. 

If it's to fit Stafford's skillset, a deep threat should be the top need for skill positions. But I think the main approach to the offseason would be making sure we can protect Stafford (OL) and helping the defense. I think McVay thinks Goff was holding the offense back and the QB swap will be all we need to reboot the offense. We'll see if he is right but I would guess that is the direction.

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2 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

If it's to fit Stafford's skillset, a deep threat should be the top need for skill positions. But I think the main approach to the offseason would be making sure we can protect Stafford (OL) and helping the defense. I think McVay thinks Goff was holding the offense back and the QB swap will be all we need to reboot the offense. We'll see if he is right but I would guess that is the direction.

From an O-Line perspective, we really need a long term replacement for Whit and another G or C. Blythe is gone. But Havenstein, Corbett, Whit I really like and also, I'm excited to see a full season of Edwards or Evans. 

I'd love to see D-Jax on a vet minimum deal vs a mid-late round speed guy in the draft.

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1 hour ago, BStanRamFan said:

From an O-Line perspective, we really need a long term replacement for Whit and another G or C. Blythe is gone. But Havenstein, Corbett, Whit I really like and also, I'm excited to see a full season of Edwards or Evans. 

I'd love to see D-Jax on a vet minimum deal vs a mid-late round speed guy in the draft.

I couldn’t agree more with the Oline, definitely need some pieces there.

With Djax, he’s always hurt and I’d rather take a flyer on a guy in the draft who has the potential to play 16 games.

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13 hours ago, BEASToftheEAST4 said:

No thanks to Ertz. The guy is not what he used to be and I don’t see him helping out this team enough to warrant the draft capital we’d need to give up and the amount of cap space he’d eat.

Pass

The price will really be the issue - $-wise - because there was already talk in-season that the Eagles were preparing to cut Ertz and move forward with Goedert as the TE1, so there would be no trading for him.  Stafford utilizes the TE considerably more than Goff did - and was extremely effective when he had one that could consistently catch (drops were a huge issue for Ebron in Detroit, whereas Hoeckenson flourished there).  Can Higbee be that guy?  Certainly.  However, if Ertz is willing to come in on one of the aforementioned rehab contracts - the vet minimum of thereabouts for a player with his level of accrued veterancy - I'm not going to argue with it.  We have a hole at TE; this would allow us to devote draft assets (even late) somewhere different than TE2/3.  It brings in a TE that is a very good in-line blocker.  And - this is something I think that gets overlooked - it brings us another veteran leader who has "been there" (i.e. winning a Super Bowl) a la what Talib was for us or what Chris Long was for the Eagles.

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11 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

If it's to fit Stafford's skillset, a deep threat should be the top need for skill positions. But I think the main approach to the offseason would be making sure we can protect Stafford (OL) and helping the defense. I think McVay thinks Goff was holding the offense back and the QB swap will be all we need to reboot the offense. We'll see if he is right but I would guess that is the direction.

There's one thing to consider though... if you're getting a deep threat to fit Stafford's skillset, give a look to who has actually been the deep threat for him in the post-Megatron (because we're not picking in the Top 10 anytime soon - which is the kind of pick you need to get an uber-athlete the caliber of Calvin Johnson).  By and large, Marvin Jones, who was the faster (track-speed) outside receiver for the Lions was utilized less as the deep-threat for the Lions and rather it was Kenny Golladay - who is not a burner; the guy ran a 4.5s forty, which was a pretty consistent time through his spell at Nebraska, he excelled at getting separation in other ways (which is one of the main reasons why I think Van Jefferson can actually be that guy for Stafford, but I digress).  Outside of Megatron, Stafford really didn't have a ton of success throwing to speed-demon types; arguments can be made for Golden Tate and Titus Young, but they were also lining up opposite Calvin and were rarely getting the safeties shaded their way on account of that.

I think people looking at the guys who can uncork low-4.4s or sub-4.4s are looking at the wrong kind of receiver for the skillset/preference of the QB we have.  If you're intent on getting a guy with legit "game-breaking" speed, you want a veteran who already has the polish and nuance to his route-running and beating press-coverage at the line.  Stafford has actually found some success with that type of guy (see Nate Burleson and, to a degree because he didn't get a ton of playing time, Bryant Johnson).  That's why D-Jax fits better than a flier on a rookie with speed, but again it comes to salary demands.

Edited by Dr LBC
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10 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

There's one thing to consider though... if you're getting a deep threat to fit Stafford's skillset, give a look to who has actually been the deep threat for him in the post-Megatron (because we're not picking in the Top 10 anytime soon - which is the kind of pick you need to get an uber-athlete the caliber of Calvin Johnson).  By and large, Marvin Jones, who was the faster (track-speed) outside receiver for the Lions was utilized less as the deep-threat for the Lions and rather it was Kenny Golladay - who is not a burner; the guy ran a 4.5s forty, which was a pretty consistent time through his spell at Nebraska, he excelled at getting separation in other ways (which is one of the main reasons why I think Van Jefferson can actually be that guy for Stafford, but I digress).  Outside of Megatron, Stafford really didn't have a ton of success throwing to speed-demon types; arguments can be made for Golden Tate and Titus Young, but they were also lining up opposite Calvin and were rarely getting the safeties shaded their way on account of that.

I think people looking at the guys who can uncork low-4.4s or sub-4.4s are looking at the wrong kind of receiver for the skillset/preference of the QB we have.  If you're intent on getting a guy with legit "game-breaking" speed, you want a veteran who already has the polish and nuance to his route-running and beating press-coverage at the line.  Stafford has actually found some success with that type of guy (see Nate Burleson and, to a degree because he didn't get a ton of playing time, Bryant Johnson).  That's why D-Jax fits better than a flier on a rookie with speed, but again it comes to salary demands.

While this is all true I look at Marvin Hall as someone that had really good success with Stafford running 10-15 routes a game. That type of receiver will be cheap (either draft or FA) and doesn't force our skill guys to be something they are not. Though I agree, I think there is something there with Van that we didn't see at all in 2020.

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10 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

There's one thing to consider though... if you're getting a deep threat to fit Stafford's skillset, give a look to who has actually been the deep threat for him in the post-Megatron (because we're not picking in the Top 10 anytime soon - which is the kind of pick you need to get an uber-athlete the caliber of Calvin Johnson).  By and large, Marvin Jones, who was the faster (track-speed) outside receiver for the Lions was utilized less as the deep-threat for the Lions and rather it was Kenny Golladay - who is not a burner; the guy ran a 4.5s forty, which was a pretty consistent time through his spell at Nebraska, he excelled at getting separation in other ways (which is one of the main reasons why I think Van Jefferson can actually be that guy for Stafford, but I digress).  Outside of Megatron, Stafford really didn't have a ton of success throwing to speed-demon types; arguments can be made for Golden Tate and Titus Young, but they were also lining up opposite Calvin and were rarely getting the safeties shaded their way on account of that.

I think people looking at the guys who can uncork low-4.4s or sub-4.4s are looking at the wrong kind of receiver for the skillset/preference of the QB we have.  If you're intent on getting a guy with legit "game-breaking" speed, you want a veteran who already has the polish and nuance to his route-running and beating press-coverage at the line.  Stafford has actually found some success with that type of guy (see Nate Burleson and, to a degree because he didn't get a ton of playing time, Bryant Johnson).  That's why D-Jax fits better than a flier on a rookie with speed, but again it comes to salary demands.

For me, a deep threat is not necessarily a WR who’s just fast, but someone who forces a secondary to back off of the LoS, keep guys from sitting on the short/intermediate routes that Kupp and Woods thrive off of. We let Cooks go without a proper replacement and the offense suffered for it.  IF Van Jefferson is that guy, then that’ll be great, but I’m not completely sold just yet..

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5 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

While this is all true I look at Marvin Hall as someone that had really good success with Stafford running 10-15 routes a game. That type of receiver will be cheap (either draft or FA) and doesn't force our skill guys to be something they are not. Though I agree, I think there is something there with Van that we didn't see at all in 2020.

And most of Hall's success came while Golladay was out with that hamstring injury.  Dude was running Kenny's routes and was still 3rd or 4th on Stafford's read-list to Hoeckenson, Jones, Danny Almonds, and arguably Swift once they took the reins off him.  Cephus was the first guy they turned to when Golladay went down and was getting those 9's and posts.

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47 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

 

 No clue who this source is and wouldn't trust it until we saw someone more reputable share it, but we knew it was possible. 

It makes sense based on need, cost, and Cali/McVay ties but calling it a prove-it deal for Desean is a bit weird. Even if he balls out with the Rams, is anyone going to give him a bigger contract in 2022 when he'd be 35?

Edited by LeotheLion
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