Barry it is.....

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

We're assuming that. Silverstein went out of his way to say that isn't clear yet.

From what Silverstein mentioned yesterday about not hearing anything about any of the defensive staff being terminated and all are under contract, to what Leonhard said mentioning guys he'd worked with on our staff currently, I'm 98% sure we aren't changing. The 2% is because Gray could say screw this since he got passed over or Smith could because Pettine was his bestie.

[Chili]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

We'll see. I disagree. The Rams staff is already picked over and I bet McVay blocks any additional attempts to pick at it. Add to the fact that Montgomery is very well regarded, is responsible for developing Clark, and survived the McCarthy purge, I think LaFleur is a big fan. Smith might be the absolute best OLB coach on the game, you'd be a total moron to move on there. Gray is a top 5 DB coach in the league, and is the only guy should things go south who could step in and be interim DC. And our ILB coach was already on Barry's staff. Leonhard mentioned in his interview with the Madison Journal that he knew a lot of members of our staff already, which sounds like LaFleur made it clear "you take the job, you're working with these guys." I agree with LaFleur, you don't fire good coaches for the sake of change. 

Wow you got a very high opinion of Pettine's staff.

Jerry Gray I will give you that.

Montgomery...not so much. He was here at the end of Capers time, Pettine kept him on and our DL performed ok, however could be much better. Will we keep him on under a 3rd coordinator? Apart from Clark he has been unable to develop any of the DL. I was actually surprised he remained with the Packers after the 49ers playoff game.

Mike Smith, I would like him to stay but he's 100% Pettine's guy. They are best mates. Will he be willing and flexible enough to work under a new boss? LaFleur didn't even give him the opportunity to interview for DC. I'm less optimistic about him staying.

Oliviadotti is someone Barry knows and most likely will retain but there is always the possibility he wants nothing to do with the staff he had at Detriot and Washington, instead perhaps preferring to start over with a brand new slate and build a different kind of coaching staff inspired from his time with the Rams.

McVay will likely block some staff members if he can but if it's a promotion then there's little he can do about it. For example a promotion for Evero from Safeties to Defensive Back coach, is that even blockable?

Edited February 8, 2021 by Chili

[Smidgeon]

Barry is such an odd hire for an optimist to try to figure out.  Any positives I hear regarding the hire all seem to fall under the "damning with faint praise" type at best or mental gymnastics of the most egregious sort at the worst.  I want to be optimistic, but the best, practical reason for it is "his talent was atrocious at his previous stops".  Not exactly a hopeful description.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong.  I hope we're all wrong.  But there has to be something I'm missing here.

[Packerraymond]

13 minutes ago, Chili said:

Wow you got a very high opinion of Pettine's staff.

Jerry Gray I will give you that.

Montgomery...not so much. He was here at the end of Capers time, Pettine kept him on and our DL performed ok, however could be much better. Will we keep him on under a 3rd coordinator? Apart from Clark he has been unable to develop any of the DL. I was actually surprised he remained with the Packers after the 49ers playoff game.

Mike Smith, I would like him to stay but he's 100% Pettine's guy. They are best mates. Will he be willing and flexible enough to work under a new boss? LaFleur didn't even give him the opportunity to interview for DC. I'm less optimistic about him staying.

McVay will likely block some staff members if he can but if it's a promotion then there's little he can do about it. For example a promotion for Evero from Safeties to Defensive Back coach, is that even blockable?

We've gotten the most out of Lowry and Lancaster, they've maxed their skillset and become useful players. Keke is coming along nicely and of course Clark is a stud. Adams is really his only miss. I think he's done a great job with the hand he's been dealt.

Like you said with Smith and Gray, I think they're back unless it's themselves who want to leave. I don't think there's any reason to desire moving on there.

Believe you can block anything that's not coordinator, head coach, GM. We were going to promote little LaFleur and Shanahan blocked it. The Packers never block anything that's a promotion, but some teams do. I would think McVay might start, or it'll just be him on that staff.

[deathstar]

20 minutes ago, Smidgeon said:

Barry is such an odd hire for an optimist to try to figure out.  Any positives I hear regarding the hire all seem to fall under the "damning with faint praise" type at best or mental gymnastics of the most egregious sort at the worst.  I want to be optimistic, but the best, practical reason for it is "his talent was atrocious at his previous stops".  Not exactly a hopeful description.

Anyway, I hope I'm wrong.  I hope we're all wrong.  But there has to be something I'm missing here.

I think it’s obvious that LaFleur has very particular ideas about what his defense should look like. As fans we aren’t used to that because MM largely let his DCs do whatever they wanted. I don’t think I look at Barry as coming in to implement his ideas of what the defense should look like, more so making sure that LaFleur’s vision becomes a reality. Now whether that is a positive or a negative remains to be seen and it will take a year to fully determine. But I like that our 28-8 head coach is taking the reigns on that side of the ball.

[Brit Pack]

Just reflecting about the hire and trying to be positive as possible here.

1) Barry was better than Evero
If Barry hadn't had the two stints as DC he would have been viewed so much more positively. Take Evero, if he got the gig we would have been much happier here. The fact though in every category Barry trumps him: a) 19 years in the NFL vs. Evero's 13 years b) Assistant head coach for last three years vs. Evero only being a position group coach for the past three years c) Barry coaches a position of weakness for the Packers and he has coached some good/great LBs over last 19 years vs. Evero whose speciality is a group that already has Gray in place as a DB coach  d) Actually those defensive coordinator stints gave Barry experience (hopefully third time is a charm) vs. Evero who has never been considered for that role because he is still so inexperienced which carries more risk of the unknown 

2) Talent is key over coaching
His failures as a DC where down to lack of talent. Was MM a great coach or did Rodgers make him look good, was McDaniels a good coach or did Brady make him look good. The more I watch the NFL the more I come away feeling that coaching gets so far but the main thing is letting players play. Bit like what happened in Tampa and Arians and Brady. What I found over last year was our defence got better not because of Pettine but because the players matured and just played better. The reason Pettine was let go was that he lacked connection with the players. I mean no player has come out to say they were sad to see Pettine go, not one. 

3) Energy, communication and likeability is underrated in the NFL.  
Take the offence, they love Hackett primarily for just being a laugh. Rodgers changed as a player because he focused on being positive, good energy, blah blah. Working in place where the energy is good and the coach likes you and you like them, the emotional side is very underrated as a performance driver.  MLF embodies that as being a friend to players and connecting with them and working with them as was evidenced in Year 2 of his tenure where he spent a lot of time on Zoom with Rodgers forming together what they wanted to do.

Writing that was a bit of therapy for me. I still hate the hire but I hated the LeFleur hire too, especially after his first press conference and the coaches he brought in and letting Campen go.

[Arthur Penske]

Anyone with premium got cliff notes?

 

 

[Packerraymond]

Joe Barry got his first DC gig because he was married to the HC's daughter. 

Joe Barry got his 2nd DC gig because he became good friends with Jay Gruden when they worked many years together in TB under Jon Gruden.

Joe Barry got his 3rd DC job because he befriended Matt LaFleur when they worked together in LAR.

This guy's literally made his career by knowing people and not having much success. McCarthy is damn proud of this hire.

[Striker]

15 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Anyone with premium got cliff notes?

 

 

-MLF likes the Fangio system because of the complexities up front that makes it hard to read.
-Staying in this 3-4 look means the Packers won't have to mess with their front 7.
-The missing component to really make the Fangio system work is a big play ILB.
-MLF says it's tough to game plan against.
-Safeties will play further back and will have chances to make plays on the ball.
-Probably will play a lot more base and only shift to nickel/dime on 3rd downs.

[PACKRULE]

10 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Joe Barry got his first DC gig because he was married to the HC's daughter. 

Joe Barry got his 2nd DC gig because he became good friends with Jay Gruden when they worked many years together in TB under Jon Gruden.

Joe Barry got his 3rd DC job because he befriended Matt LaFleur when they worked together in LAR.

This guy's literally made his career by knowing people and not having much success. McCarthy is damn proud of this hire.

Ray are you staying at Outposts house? To suggest these were the only reasons is to discredit more than just Barry he likey has some other qualifications he's been working ever since. 

[PACKRULE]

5 minutes ago, Striker said:

-MLF likes the Fangio system because of the complexities up front that makes it hard to read.
-Staying in this 3-4 look means the Packers won't have to mess with their front 7.
-The missing component to really make the Fangio system work is a big play ILB.
-MLF says it's tough to game plan against.
-Safeties will play further back and will have chances to make plays on the ball.
-Probably will play a lot more base and only shift to nickel/dime on 3rd downs.

So we're going ILB early this year in the draft.

[Chili]

31 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Anyone with premium got cliff notes?

 

 

 

Quote

According to sources who have connections to LaFleur, the decision came down to the Packers coach wanting to run the Vic Fangio scheme that Barry was a part of last year as linebackers coach for Rams coordinator Brandon Staley.

It is the scheme Staley used in producing the NFL’s No. 1-ranked defense, which in turn helped him land the Los Angeles Chargers head-coaching job after one year as a coordinator. It is the same scheme Fangio perfected during stints in San Francisco and Chicago that earned him the Denver Broncos head-coaching position.

 

Quote

The reason LaFleur likes the Fangio/Staley system, one source said, is the complexity of the looks it presents upfront. The Packers saw that firsthand when they played the Rams in the divisional round of the playoffs.

The Packers had a lot of trouble getting the Rams to show what coverage they were in even with some of the motion they use to force the defense to declare it. Sometimes the Rams played man coverage out of a zone look, which made it tougher for quarterback Aaron Rodgers to determine where to go with the football.

LaFleur has said it was extremely difficult to game plan against that defense.

The Fangio scheme plays a lot with what coaches say is “vision to the football,” meaning the safeties are back and have a chance to make more plays on the ball. The Packers will probably be more consistent with their personnel on first and second down and save their nickel and dime packages for third down.

I always liked Fangio's defences more than Capers defences. He showed levels of dominance with the 49ers and Bears that we never really got to see under Capers.

Quote

According to one of the sources, the job then came down to Barry, Washington defensive backs coach Chris Harris and Rams safeties coach Ejiro Evero.

The question facing LaFleur was which of the three would be able to install the Fangio scheme the best. Barry and Evero had been in it only one year and Harris had not been in it at all, working mostly in the Pete Carroll Cover-3 scheme that started in Seattle.

The source said LaFleur ran all three through discussions about the Fangio scheme and Barry had the most in-depth knowledge. Given he served as linebackers coach, he had been responsible for tying together the way things ran up front with the way coverage was played. His linebackers were responsible for playing the run, rushing the passer and dropping into coverage.

This part of the article is completely wrong. Evero would have the most indepth knowledge having been on Fangio's staff for 4 years with the 49ers.
 

Quote

The source said LaFleur was acutely aware of how the Barry hire might look like cronyism, given he was hiring a middle-aged white coach with two failed opportunities as a coordinator over two up-and-coming Black assistants.

He was also passing over secondary coach Jerry Gray, a 58-year old, two-time defensive coordinator who is also Black.

The source said LaFleur spent a great deal of time thinking it over before picking Barry.

LaFleur has been one of the most outspoken head coaches in supporting the Black Lives Matter movement and in light of the Jacob Blake shooting Aug. 23, canceled practice and set aside time for his players and other members of the organization to engage in discussion about racial inequality.

However, it will be difficult for him to convince people this wasn’t a comfort hire, a matter of picking a buddy over picking someone deserving of their first shot in charge of a defense.

And don’t underestimate how the players will react to the hire. The failure of any Black coordinators to land a head-coaching job this offseason has not been lost on a league that is 70% Black, and it’s logical to wonder what Black players will think about another middle-aged white guy coaching the defense instead of Gray, Harris or Evero.

Yes. It's definitely not a good look. When I drew up my initial list of coaches the vast majority of them just so happened to be black. I took that to mean there was a very good chance we would hire a black defensive coordinator. Imagine my surprise when the list of names for Packers interviews came out, most of them were white.

Barry had his opportunities and he failed. We know he sucked. So why not risk hiring the lesser experienced black guy who knows Fangio's system far more than he does.

The fact of the matter is the stuff we cant see on paper such as personality, mentality, eloquentness, confidence, knowledge, charisma all carry lot of weight in interviews and this is where Barry may have shined.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Chili

[FinneasGage]

21 minutes ago, Arthur Penske said:

Anyone with premium got cliff notes?

 

 

lmao akin to signing matt cassell to be tom brady 

[cannondale]

Call me crazy, but if I'm a head coach, no way in hell I'm hiring a DC whose resume reads:

Safeties coach - 2 years

I don't give a rats azz if he's black or white or purple

[Chili]

7 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Call me crazy, but if I'm a head coach, no way in hell I'm hiring a DC whose resume reads:

Safeties coach - 2 years

I don't give a rats azz if he's black or white or purple

He was a safeties coach for 4 years.  Plenty of other position coaches made coordinator in less time.

Gray himself was a position coach for just two years before he was named defensive coordinator.

Look at how quickly McVay worked his way up the ladder.

Edited February 8, 2021 by Chili