Super Bowl Post Game Discussion

[Kip Smithers]

28 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Ah gotcha, that reeeally clears things up. Here I, and I guess “people”, are pushing narratives to...”not” apparently “fill time”. It all makes so much sense. 

KC absolutely failed to prepare - they also failed to execute. A bunch of elite players failed to execute, a bunch of experienced coaches with SB pedigree failed to prepare. Those experienced coaches and elite players have a history of letting teams play them closer than they ought to. Wonder why that is? Could it be seen in Kelce or Hill’s comments? Or Watkins’? Not 5 rings? Not 7 rings? 

Don’t even blame them for having that confidence, it’s deserved, but this game was only the cherry on top, not the whole sundae.

You keep saying they didn’t prepare and haven’t made a single valid point to back it up. You’ve tried but they’re easily refutable.

[Kip Smithers]

13 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

Here’s a little morsel for everyone saying “Mahomes never had a chance, his line gave up the most pressures in SB history.”

In SB LI the Pats gave up the second most pressures in SB history. They won that game. And I’m not just being a DB here, I’m making a point. It is possible to adjust and move an offense even when the line is being bad.

There are some limitations to the Chiefs offense, and Mahomes game. They can make big plays, run good screens and scheme guys wide open, but they don’t have the ability to move the ball when that doesn’t work. This is stuff a couple of us have been saying for a while, and getting labelled “haters” for.

This is such a simplistic way to look at it. By that logic why wasn’t “GOAT” offense able to overcome the Giants pass rush in 2007? People act like defenses can’t counter what you do. Like the offense has complete control of the outcome and the defense offers no resistance. When you try to adjust and it doesn’t work, of course to us as fans it’s gonna look like they didn’t try to adjust. Yall never ever consider that.
 

Chiefs don’t just rely on the big play, Mahomes and the chiefs offense have shown they can move the ball the down the field numerous times. Confirmation bias is just so annoying. 

[Soko]

49 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

You keep saying they didn’t prepare and haven’t made a single valid point to back it up. You’ve tried but they’re easily refutable.

Well, my main opinion is that the Chiefs come off as lacking a sense of urgency, which I think stems from the earned confidence of their success, their talent, and their experience. But we can focus on that one P-word if you’d like, since it seems you’re stuck on that. 

I mean, sure, the 90%+ of 5-man protections surely could be interpreted as a lack of adapting rather than a lack of preparation (probably both, considering how TB was pressuring Green Bay all day with only a four man rush. And KC knew they’d be having line troubles). Everyone and their mother knew KC was going to have a mixed up line. Everyone and their mother knew TB had a formidable defensive line. Everyone and their mother knew Bowles likes to generate pressure. So what do we do? Play right into a weakness and the other teams’ strength, and not only that, but steer into the storm for 60 minutes. If the plan was for the backups to sufficiently block an obviously superior defensive line on their own, against a DC that likes to generate pressure, then that’s a crap plan. 

Maybe the refusal to stick with the run, even when it was working in a limited capacity, was just an Andy Reid throwback. The Bucs do have good run stuffers, good LBers, so again you might call that a coaching decision more than a game plan. But seems like that was the actual plan, since (by my count) the running backs only carried the ball 5 times in the first half. 

What about Mahomes’ comments? “We want to be ourselves” and “we hadn’t really been stopped with what we had been doing all year long”? That’s a CLEAR indication that, as soon as they couldn’t do what’s always worked (which you can say largely fell on the OL’s play, but KC knew that was going to be an issue going in), they crumbled. I mean, Bowles was dialing a lot of different fronts defensively, but they did a lot of Cover 2. There’s not a secret to beating Cover 2, but that formula isn’t *what the Chiefs always do*, so they didn’t/couldn’t do it. Walking into the SB with a “we’re going to do it the way we’ve always done it, for 60 minutes” attitude is bad game planning and obvious arrogance IMO. 

And before you say it, because I know you will, I’m not basing my opinion or the SB loss solely on KC’s game planning. There were opportunities offensively that were not capitalized on, and that’s the players executing. But you don’t just show up on game day and play well - you prepare and that leads to success in execution.  

Players making dynasty comments. Elite players not executing. Bad game plans by SB winning coaches. #1 seed letting inferior teams hang around, and even take the lead. The QB himself admitting that they basically just did what they always did. The third most 5-man protections (% wise) in the last 5 seasons, against a front that’s been dominating in the postseason, while manning that protection with backups. Yeah, I think there’s enough there to insinuate that the Chiefs play with a little more confidence than you’d maybe want.

But I’m sure you’ll just hammer me more with “lulz ppl and their narratives”, or “lulz idc ESPN”, and of course the “you haven’t made a point” despite....not making any valid points. But I forgive you. 

[Soggust]

1 hour ago, ChazStandard said:

Here’s a little morsel for everyone saying “Mahomes never had a chance, his line gave up the most pressures in SB history.”

In SB LI the Pats gave up the second most pressures in SB history. They won that game. And I’m not just being a DB here, I’m making a point. It is possible to adjust and move an offense even when the line is being bad.

There are some limitations to the Chiefs offense, and Mahomes game. They can make big plays, run good screens and scheme guys wide open, but they don’t have the ability to move the ball when that doesn’t work. This is stuff a couple of us have been saying for a while, and getting labelled “haters” for.

I'm with you everywhere else, but I don't understand this line.  We've certainly ran the ball effectively previously in this offense before and Mahomes is certainly capable of taking underneath routes when the top is covered so I don't get what you are trying to say here. If our offense isn't clicking, we don't move the ball well - sure, but all teams are like that. And certainly a one-game sample size of Mahomes not scoring a touchdown doesn't necessarily validate any takes (good or bad), right?

[JonMcC2018]

He didn't have his best game, but boy did Mahomes make some incredible throws. 3 or 4 circus throws.

I don't think the moment has been too big for him of anything like that, but it is fair to say that 7/8 of his Super Bowl quarters have been under par. And he was poor in the 1st half of the AFC Championship game the year before as well. The Chiefs are kind of like that though, a streaky team in many ways.

[Nightime]

2 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

Here’s a little morsel for everyone saying “Mahomes never had a chance, his line gave up the most pressures in SB history.”

In SB LI the Pats gave up the second most pressures in SB history. They won that game. And I’m not just being a DB here, I’m making a point. It is possible to adjust and move an offense even when the line is being bad.

There are some limitations to the Chiefs offense, and Mahomes game. They can make big plays, run good screens and scheme guys wide open, but they don’t have the ability to move the ball when that doesn’t work. This is stuff a couple of us have been saying for a while, and getting labelled “haters” for.

The Patriots gave up 23 pressures because Brady had 62 attempts. Mahomes had 29 pressures in 49 attempts. The ATL defense was also alot worse than the 2020 Bucs, like not even close

Brady and Belichick weren’t able to overcome this pressure in 2007, despite steam rolling most of their schedule all year. When the other team gets pressure and plays tight coverage, it’s very challenging to move the ball, especially when the OC is calling a bunch of deep shots

[notthatbluestuff]

14 hours ago, Pats#1 said:

This keeps getting repeated. If we are going to mention dropped completions then you should mention that one of those dropped TD passes was also a missed easy INT. 

Who gives a damn? I'll appreciate the way he played regardless. 

[SteelKing728]

6 hours ago, Bolts223 said:

That's a little presumptive of who else might be good in the AFC next year. Nobody would have even guessed Tampa would win the SB this time last year.

Miami could trade for Watson, some QB could break out in a big way. 

I guessed it since August haha. I just had Tampa beating Baltimore instead.

[Magnifico]

12 hours ago, PatriotsWin! said:

Mahomes already back to work. I have no doubt he's going to multiple SBs in the short term, he's beyond impressive.

 

Honestly whilst it hurts to be punched in the mouth and destroyed, he's not even in his prime yet, I think Sunday will be a good thing in the long run. I look forward to the improvement to come from the likes of him and Josh Allen.

Deshaun Watson worked on getting rid of the ball quicker this season (still some way to go) and had a ridiculous season on a 4-12 team.

Future is bright. Those three are all 25 or younger.

If Grand Emperor Brady will just leave some scraps for the young guns it'd be great. 😅

[Pats#1]

1 hour ago, Nightime said:

The Patriots gave up 23 pressures because Brady had 62 attempts. Mahomes had 29 pressures in 49 attempts. The ATL defense was also alot worse than the 2020 Bucs, like not even close

Brady and Belichick weren’t able to overcome this pressure in 2007, despite steam rolling most of their schedule all year. When the other team gets pressure and plays tight coverage, it’s very challenging to move the ball, especially when the OC is calling a bunch of deep shots

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

I think what I and most others are sort of driving home here is the difference in response that other QBs have gotten when this exact situation happened to them. Brady and Belichick had to live with the epic choker title for years after 2007 because the offense dealt with the same challenges Mahomes and Reid did last night. They even made it a much more competitive game than this one.

 

Yet this time around, it seams everyone is circling the wagons around Mahomes to deflect any blame. I think that’s why there’s so much push back here.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Pats#1

[Nightime]

Just now, Pats#1 said:

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

I think what I and most others are sort of driving home here is the difference in response that other QBs have gotten when this exact situation happened to them. Brady and Belichick were had to live with the epic choke title for years because the offense was dealing with the same challenges Mahomes and Reid were last night. Yet this time around, it seams everyone is circling the wagons around Mahomes to deflect any blame.

Part of that was going 18-0 only to lose to the NYG, and of course Brady’s “we’re only going to score 17 points?”

I feel like Mahomes got a lot more criticism for his Super Bowl performance against San Francisco, than he did against the Buccaneers. 

[Broncofan]

Mahomes deserves his share of the blame, so before ppl post - not trying to excuse him.   But the idea his turf toe combined with the OL issues weren’t a problem for this matchup - would be the one take home lesson for future handicapping (pass rush vs OL matchup problem negates the “can’t stop them O”).  

Edited February 9, 2021 by Broncofan

[Pats#1]

1 hour ago, notthatbluestuff said:

Who gives a damn? I'll appreciate the way he played regardless. 

Okay...?

[Kip Smithers]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Well, my main opinion is that the Chiefs come off as lacking a sense of urgency, which I think stems from the earned confidence of their success, their talent, and their experience. But we can focus on that one P-word if you’d like, since it seems you’re stuck on that. 

I mean, sure, the 90%+ of 5-man protections surely could be interpreted as a lack of adapting rather than a lack of preparation (probably both, considering how TB was pressuring Green Bay all day with only a four man rush. And KC knew they’d be having line troubles). Everyone and their mother knew KC was going to have a mixed up line. Everyone and their mother knew TB had a formidable defensive line. Everyone and their mother knew Bowles likes to generate pressure. So what do we do? Play right into a weakness and the other teams’ strength, and not only that, but steer into the storm for 60 minutes. If the plan was for the backups to sufficiently block an obviously superior defensive line on their own, against a DC that likes to generate pressure, then that’s a crap plan. 

Maybe the refusal to stick with the run, even when it was working in a limited capacity, was just an Andy Reid throwback. The Bucs do have good run stuffers, good LBers, so again you might call that a coaching decision more than a game plan. But seems like that was the actual plan, since (by my count) the running backs only carried the ball 5 times in the first half. 

What about Mahomes’ comments? “We want to be ourselves” and “we hadn’t really been stopped with what we had been doing all year long”? That’s a CLEAR indication that, as soon as they couldn’t do what’s always worked (which you can say largely fell on the OL’s play, but KC knew that was going to be an issue going in), they crumbled. I mean, Bowles was dialing a lot of different fronts defensively, but they did a lot of Cover 2. There’s not a secret to beating Cover 2, but that formula isn’t *what the Chiefs always do*, so they didn’t/couldn’t do it. Walking into the SB with a “we’re going to do it the way we’ve always done it, for 60 minutes” attitude is bad game planning and obvious arrogance IMO. 

And before you say it, because I know you will, I’m not basing my opinion or the SB loss solely on KC’s game planning. There were opportunities offensively that were not capitalized on, and that’s the players executing. But you don’t just show up on game day and play well - you prepare and that leads to success in execution.  

Players making dynasty comments. Elite players not executing. Bad game plans by SB winning coaches. #1 seed letting inferior teams hang around, and even take the lead. The QB himself admitting that they basically just did what they always did. The third most 5-man protections (% wise) in the last 5 seasons, against a front that’s been dominating in the postseason, while manning that protection with backups. Yeah, I think there’s enough there to insinuate that the Chiefs play with a little more confidence than you’d maybe want.

But I’m sure you’ll just hammer me more with “lulz ppl and their narratives”, or “lulz idc ESPN”, and of course the “you haven’t made a point” despite....not making any valid points. But I forgive you. 

First paragraph not even gonna address because just filled with same cliches and statements. So gonna leave that there. 
 

Youre looking at it on one side. First off the Chiefs don’t really have a blocking TE and you don’t wanna put Kelce there occasionally because it limits your options in the passing game. And Tyreek was getting doubled regardless. They tried the quick game and the Bucs shut it down. Again you make it seem as if Mahomes was just holding the ball for long and they were looking for big plays which is false. Again it’s easy to sit there in your armchair to say what you are saying. 
 

The Chiefs were down and couldn’t afford to keep running the ball. They tried. Sometimes a quick passing game is a substitute for a run game. Now could they have run the ball a bit more? Sure. But wouldn’t have made a notable difference because at some point they would have needed to have gotten in a rhythm to complete some passes and they couldn’t do that.

As for Mahomes comments lol (which btw I haven’t found quotes anywhere for full context)  that really isn’t saying anything if you don’t have the context of what their offenses consists of. Because contrary to popular belief, they’re not some offense that just throws the ball downfield all game. They’re actually great at those long drives. Mahomes and Chiefs offense statistically was the best in the league in that aspect. the Bucs shut down anything the chiefs tried to do. That’s what you’re not understanding. The Bucs could get pressure with 4 and they were doubling Tyreek and werent able to get the ball to their other weapons. You can’t just consistently alter the protection like that because it cripples the offense and it’s flow. 
 

like I said I’m gonna trust the coaches and their thinking behind their decisions strategically over yours that for damn sure when we as fans get to play the results. So yeah, good luck with that.

[Kip Smithers]

19 minutes ago, Pats#1 said:

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

I think what I and most others are sort of driving home here is the difference in response that other QBs have gotten when this exact situation happened to them. Brady and Belichick had to live with the epic choker title for years after 2007 because the offense dealt with the same challenges Mahomes and Reid did last night. They even made it a much more competitive game than this one.

 

Yet this time around, it seams everyone is circling the wagons around Mahomes to deflect any blame. I think that’s why there’s so much push back here.

That’s kind of a strawman though. I don’t think I’ve ever heard refer to 07 as a choke at all in all honesty. The Giants defense was just dominant and got pressure with 4. A lot of talk goes back to that defense.