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Where do the 2020 Buccaneers rank among SB Champions?


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13 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I should have clarified - best team he won a SB with.

Yeah, it's ironic 2007 was the best team TB12 ever played for.

But absolutely the most balanced team - other than ST, a perfectly constructed team.

GM Jason Licht should get Exec of the Year even if TAM hadn't won the SB, now it's an absolute travesty if he doesn't get it.    How he's built the team with Day 1-2 hits is so impressive, a model for a 3-year team rebuild.

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The slow start and 5 losses doesn’t affect how I view them much. They were loaded with FA’s in the worst offseason ever.

 

They had a sky-high ceiling and were able to play to it for much of the past couple months.

 

For sure they’re behind 13 Seahawks... maybe 16 Patriots. But I think that’s it.

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Right when the playoffs started, how many posters here thought they'd be putting the 2020 bucs as the 2nd best (or 3rd best) team of the decade? Note: this isn't an attempt to discredit them, it's just how quickly opinions can change in a matter of weeks.

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3 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Yeah, it's ironic 2007 was the best team TB12 ever played for.

But absolutely the most balanced team - other than ST, a perfectly constructed team.

GM Jason Licht should get Exec of the Year even if TAM hadn't won the SB, now it's an absolute travesty if he doesn't get it.    How he's built the team with Day 1-2 hits is so impressive, a model for a 3-year team rebuild.

A model everyone can definitely follow.

Just pick up a 6 time winning qb and pull your ~ 8-8 team to a SB.

Ez pz.

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2 minutes ago, Zalixar said:

A model everyone can definitely follow.

Just pick up a 6 time winning qb and pull your 8-8 team to a SB.

Ez pz.

Vita Vea, Lavonte David, Devin White, their top 3 CB's, both safeties, RT Wirfs / RG Cappa (and LG Ali Marpet in 2015), both starting WRs - all drafted guys.   All impact guys.

GM Licht built the most complete team around Brady except for NE 2007.    That's his model that teams should try to emulate.    

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2 hours ago, Jotun_Fan said:

Right when the playoffs started, how many posters here thought they'd be putting the 2020 bucs as the 2nd best (or 3rd best) team of the decade? Note: this isn't an attempt to discredit them, it's just how quickly opinions can change in a matter of weeks.

Well, there were 3-4 posters who picked the Bucs to win straight up in the Playoff Bracket contest.   And most Tampa backers pointed out that NO & Tampa were the 2 most complete teams this year.    

But yes, it's fair to say there's always some recency bias.   

More to the point, though - well-balanced, complete teams are far more likely to win SB's than O-heavy teams.   Denver 2015 is the only recent D-heavy team to win the SB in 2015.   But since 2002, IIRC there are only 5 teams who've won the SB with a bottom-half D by DVOA (2003 IND, 2009 NO, 2011 NYG & 2012 BAL & 2018 NE) - and in 1 case, both teams were bottom-half D's (NO vs. IND).    Even KC 2019 was a top half D.    KC 2020's run D was 31st by DVOA (which took them from middle of the pack to 24th) - and I think we all saw that come home to roost yesterday.  BUF wasn't good enough to exploit it, and CLE got behind 2+ scores too early to take advantage.  

Tampa is the only team in the last 10+ years to finish in the top 5 in both O and D by DVOA.   To be fair, there are about 6-7 teams in the last 20 years to finish top 8 in both cats - but it's just pointing out how balanced the 2020 Bucs were.    I don't know if history will view them as one of the best in the era - but they may go down as one of the most balanced.

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17 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Vita Vea, Lavonte David, Devin White, their top 3 CB's, both safeties, RT Wirfs / RG Cappa (and LG Ali Marpet in 2015), both starting WRs - all drafted guys.   All impact guys.

GM Licht built the most complete team around Brady except for NE 2007.    That's his model that teams should try to emulate.    

Yeah, all great players.  Nothing without a decent QB.  Didn't specifically build around Brady, just had a team and needed a QB to take them to the next level.

At the end of the day it's a QB league.

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1 minute ago, Zalixar said:

Yeah, all great players.  Nothing without a decent QB.

At the end of the day it's a QB league though.

Sure, and the 7-8 other great QB's who play today aren't 2020 winners because the rest of their teams weren't good enough to beat the Bucs' complete team.   It's not like it's a binary equation - you don't get a SB winner without a great team.   A great QB makes it easier to cover a few holes, but a complete team with a good QB often beats a great QB on a more uneven team.  

We didn't just see it yesterday, we saw it with SEA vs. DEN 2013, DEN vs. CAR 2015.   And it's a lot easier when the talent is homegrown.   That's the part that every GM and team can control each year.   Building a complete roster and getting a difference maker are not mutually exclusive tasks - ideally, you get both.   If you only get 1 of those 2 components done, it's rare to take home the crown (and it's actually more common for the good QB - great team vs. better QB - lesser rest of team).

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7 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Sure, and the 7-8 other great QB's who play today aren't 2020 winners because the rest of their teams weren't good enough to beat the Bucs' complete team.   It's not like it's a binary equation - you don't get a SB winner without a great team.   A great QB makes it easier to cover a few holes, but a complete team with a good QB often beats a great QB on a more uneven team.  

We didn't just see it yesterday, we saw it with SEA vs. DEN 2013, DEN vs. CAR 2015.   And it's a lot easier when the talent is homegrown.   That's the part that every GM and team can control each year.   Building a complete roster and getting a difference maker are not mutually exclusive tasks - ideally, you get both.   If you only get 1 of those 2 components done, it's rare to take home the crown (and it's actually more common for the good QB - great team vs. better QB - lesser rest of team).

A good team minus QB can maybe get you to the playoffs.

A good QB can get you to the playoffs but will struggle with a SB.

He's done well, of course.  But without a good QB, not sure they make an actual playoff run with their core.

Many teams have decent blueprint, but lack the QB / coaches.

Licht built a decent team and got a 6 time winning QB (and a great DC, I know).  Not one you could exactly follow.

Also, and sometimes most importantly,  injuries matter.

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Winning on the road really shouldn't be used as a reason for placing them highly IMO, you never see anyone rank the '07 Giants high (who had an even harder path). You played on the road for a reason, and we're judging the entire team and season, not just the playoff run, correct? That was an all time playoff run, top 5 all time for sure, but if I'm ranking SB teams overall:

 

Last 20 winners

  1. 2013 Seahawks
  2. 2004 Patriots
  3. 2016 Patriots
  4. 2019 Chiefs
  5. 2020 Bucs
  6. 2002 Bucs
  7. 2017 Eagles
  8. 2009 Saints
  9. 2003 Patriots
  10. 2014 Patriots
  11. 2008 Steelers
  12. 2010 Packers
  13. 2005 Steelers
  14. 2006 Colts
  15. 2018 Patriots
  16. 2015 Broncos
  17. 2001 Pats
  18. 2007 Giants
  19. 2012 Ravens
  20. 2011 Giants

I'd say I'm ranking teams on about 55% regular season performance, 30% playoff performance, 15% iTest. Separated into 3 tiers, weak SB winners, average SB winners, strong SB winners. 

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4 hours ago, Jotun_Fan said:

Right when the playoffs started, how many posters here thought they'd be putting the 2020 bucs as the 2nd best (or 3rd best) team of the decade? Note: this isn't an attempt to discredit them, it's just how quickly opinions can change in a matter of weeks.

Not to tip my own hat, but I thought they’d win the Super Bowl and be one of the better SB Winners of the decade. 
 

People focused way too much on record. They were one of the best teams in DVOA of all time. Also, had a Top 5 Offense + Defense. Plus, had a QB who finished with a Top 5 season. They were really a 12-14 caliber win team and all indicators point to that. And they proved it with absolute dominance in every playoff game. 

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