Jotun_Fan Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 11 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Not to tip my own hat, but I thought they’d win the Super Bowl and be one of the better SB Winners of the decade. People focused way too much on record. They were one of the best teams in DVOA of all time. Also, had a Top 5 Offense + Defense. Plus, had a QB who finished with a Top 5 season. They were really a 12-14 caliber win team and all indicators point to that. And they proved it with absolute dominance in every playoff game. Would we be calling them one of the best teams to not win the super bowl had they lost? Also I'm not that familiar with the dvoa stat, but how sensitive is it? Football seasons are such a small sample size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jotun_Fan said: Would we be calling them one of the best teams to not win the super bowl had they lost? Also I'm not that familiar with the dvoa stat, but how sensitive is it? Football seasons are such a small sample size. No. But Seattle 2013 almost always leads these lists and 99% percent of that is people remembering them for dominating the 13 Broncos. Going into that game, the Broncos were the hype of the league and if they won, the 13 Seahawks would have been remembered about the same as the Bucs if they lost. How you perform in that game matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, lancerman said: No. But Seattle 2013 almost always leads these lists and 99% percent of that is people remembering them for dominating the 13 Broncos. Going into that game, the Broncos were the hype of the league and if they won, the 13 Seahawks would have been remembered about the same as the Bucs if they lost. How you perform in that game matters. 2013 Seahawks were a great team entering the Super Bowl though. #1 seed, ridiculously balanced team (offense was super good and beyond underrated), and defense obviously pretty legendary. Second best defense of the decade behind the 2015 Broncos, and Top 10-15 Defense ever. The Super Bowl blowout is definitely a factor though, yes. Imo playoff/SB dominance is very important. To me, this decade is 2013 Seahawks > 2020 Bucs > whichever team you want from the ‘18 Pats or ‘16 Pats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awsi Dooger Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Jotun_Fan said: Right when the playoffs started, how many posters here thought they'd be putting the 2020 bucs as the 2nd best (or 3rd best) team of the decade? Note: this isn't an attempt to discredit them, it's just how quickly opinions can change in a matter of weeks. Exactly. Recency bias is comical. That Seattle team had a YPPA Differential of +2.9, if I remember correctly. It was the only recent team to resemble the prior greats in that category. 2020 Tampa Bay was +1.2, which is nothing special at all. They faced Kansas City which likewise was nothing special at +1.0 as I mentioned last week. Mediocre teams with great quarterbacks flourish given the rules of this era. Winning playoff games on the road doesn't hold nearly the same value in 2020 as a typical year, given lack of fans. Not exactly a coincidence that 2020 was the first season in league history with the road teams winning more regular season games than the home team. Tampa Bay deserved enormous amount of credit but 5 losses cannot be wished away. The point differential equates to an estimated record of 10.9-5.1. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/2020.htm Those foundational formulas have been around for a long time and are hardly irrelevant just because everyone is desperate to coddle DVOA. Bottom line when a team surrenders a lazy 7.0 YPA over the course of a season it is not anywhere near the all-time greats. Seattle 2013 was 5.8 YPA. Last year's 49ers allowed 5.9 YPA, which is fantastic given the way the league has evolved. It was really sickening the way that Super Bowl played out over the final 7 minutes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I already ranked teams of the decade, but as for Brady's Super Bowl Teams.... 1. 2004 New England Patriots 2. 2020 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3. 2003 New England Patriots 4. 2018 New England Patriots 5. 2016 New England Patriots 6. 2014 New England Patriots 7. 2001 New England Patriots I know I'm in the minority with 2018 > 2016. It's close for me. However, I like the 2018 Playoff Performance much better. They destroyed the Chargers, then beat a seemingly unstoppable looking Kansas City team on the road in OT. Then they CRUSH the Rams in the Super Bowl. It may have only been 13-3, but the Rams were never in that game for a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, BayRaider said: I already ranked teams of the decade, but as for Brady's Super Bowl Teams.... 1. 2004 New England Patriots 2. 2020 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 3. 2003 New England Patriots 4. 2018 New England Patriots 5. 2016 New England Patriots 6. 2014 New England Patriots 7. 2001 New England Patriots I know I'm in the minority with 2018 > 2016. It's close for me. However, I like the 2018 Playoff Performance much better. They destroyed the Chargers, then beat a seemingly unstoppable looking Kansas City team on the road in OT. Then they CRUSH the Rams in the Super Bowl. It may have only been 13-3, but the Rams were never in that game for a second. 14 is way too low. It's arguably the most stacked one he's had overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, lancerman said: 14 is way too low. It's arguably the most stacked one he's had overall. This teams roster is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Its hard to split hairs but they have a lot going for them. They killed Goliath in 26-1 Mahomes trying to repeat. They are loaded and highly ranked on both sides of the ball. 3/7 on O and 8/6 on D They have the GoaT at QB and TE. Of Brady's 10 teams its hard to say what position groups I'd want over this Tampa team besides defensive secondary and special teams. 2007 WRs might edge them out but not 2007 receivers including TEs This was a really good team. It just took a while for them to mesh. (AB was not even there until game 9) Brady was better in 2007, but he had 54 TDs counting the playoffs this year. (He had 58 in 2007) *passing + rushing This team never trailed in the playoffs in the 4th. That's pretty rare. 31-9 is a pretty impressive win, but they barely tried to score in the 4th. It could have been worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, Broncofan said: Vita Vea, Lavonte David, Devin White, their top 3 CB's, both safeties, RT Wirfs / RG Cappa (and LG Ali Marpet in 2015), both starting WRs - all drafted guys. All impact guys. GM Licht built the most complete team around Brady except for NE 2007. That's his model that teams should try to emulate. So draft well? I’d assume that’s what every GM tries to do. Edited February 9, 2021 by vikingsrule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) I would consider them slightly above average. I think when you read about how little prepared Brady was at the beginning of the season due to covid/lack of preseason it puts it in perspective of how good this team might have been in a normal season. Could have easily won 13-14 games and been the 1-seed. I think the 2013 Seahawks and 14/16 Pats rank higher. I think you have to put them above the 2019 Chiefs considering they just destroyed more or less the same team. (With some O-line injuries of course) Since 2011 1) 2013 Seahawks 2) 2014 Patriots 3) 2016 Patriots 4) 2020 Bucs 5) 2019 Chiefs 6) 2017 Eagles 7) 2018 Patriots 8 ) 2015 Broncos 9) 2012 Ravens 10) 2011 Giants Edited February 9, 2021 by Bolts223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Broncofan said: Vita Vea, Lavonte David, Devin White, their top 3 CB's, both safeties, RT Wirfs / RG Cappa (and LG Ali Marpet in 2015), both starting WRs - all drafted guys. All impact guys. GM Licht built the most complete team around Brady except for NE 2007. That's his model that teams should try to emulate. I actually agree that this might be the most talented team Brady has had except for 2007. Difference is that I think Belichick is a better coach than Arians is. If this was a Brady/Belichick team with this stacked of a roster this would be an all-time great team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, BayRaider said: Lol the 2011 Giants don’t come anywhere close to the 2020 Bucs. Bucs had a Top 5 Offense and Defense basically all season long (DVOA), and a QB who had a Top 5 QB season. Giants Offense was average and Eli was barely in that 11-13 range of QB’s. 2011 Giants are arguably the worst SB Winner in the history of the sport. I'm as big an Eli critic as any but Eli was borderline top 5 in 2011. That was his one truly good year. But yes the Bucs defense is much better than the 2011 Giants was and they have better weapons than the Giants did. Plus Brady is still better than 2011 Eli was. Edited February 9, 2021 by Bolts223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 13 hours ago, ET80 said: I'll say this is the best team Tom Brady has been a part of. I think this is the most talented roster Brady has had besides 07. I think if you replace Belichick with Arians this team goes 14-2, 15-1 or even 16-0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 12 hours ago, Pugger said: I have to say this is one of the best defenses to win a SB in recent memory. 2015 Broncos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolts223 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 7 hours ago, lancerman said: No. But Seattle 2013 almost always leads these lists and 99% percent of that is people remembering them for dominating the 13 Broncos. Going into that game, the Broncos were the hype of the league and if they won, the 13 Seahawks would have been remembered about the same as the Bucs if they lost. How you perform in that game matters. I mean I think that Seattle team was legitimately great. I think the 2004 Pats were better. I think that the 2014 Pats were arguably about equal. But I can't think of any other teams in the last 20 years that I'd put ahead or equal to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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