HH650 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Browns follower since Paul Warfield days. Follower of all AFL/NFL drafts since 1965. Written during the first half of the Houston game. I submit this team is the worst since 1999, and not because it is young and getting to know each other. It is the worst because as constituted there is no basis for hope of winning except by a fluke. Facts: three quarterbacks, none who are NFL competent. We have one "maybe" in Kizer. Mediocre runing game with possible better backs on the bench. Very questionable coaching including play calling and time management. Etc. I really would like answers to the following questions: 1. Who made the draft selections in 2016? It is starting to look like 2014 with a couple of players but no stars. 2. Who decided to pass on Wentz and Watson and were they competent to make those decisions? 3. Is a degree from Harvard a sufficient basis for being Director of Personnel? What evidence suggests it is sufficient? Enough for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Do you honestly think Watson or Wentz would be as good as they are currently if they were the QB on this Browns team. Those two are on teams that were a QB away from being competitive. The browns are not a QB away from be competitive. Dont give up that this regime had the stones to do what was needed. A complete tear down was needed for this team and franhcise. I was sick and tired of seeing merely cosmetic fixes to major issues. Those kind of years got your hopes up. If you got your hopes up for this season then you truly were looking at this team with brown and orange colored classes. Yea this team is worse and should be worse than last year. It’s the youngest team in the league, rookie QBS, and lost talent last year to this year. Growing pains are a ******! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Saying 'Watson or Wentz would be the same' is a stupid argument. Part of the argument for saving all this cap room is 'we aren't ready to compete yet, why waste it'. We have sat on $50m back to back years that could have helped our team. Part of the argument for passing on franchise QBs (who are in MVP consideration) is 'we aren't ready for a rookie QB, we are rebuilding'. We have successfully delayed our rebuild by 2 years by being afraid to take a QB who can be the answer, and by not wanting to sign players who could help us win. If we kept #2, drafted Wentz, and used the cap space to sign capable offensive players I absolutely think Wentz could be the same or better than hes been in Philadelphia, which has been a far from ideal situation. Instead we have used the 'lets lose on purpose' strategy. Its a bold strategy cotton, lets see how it works out for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgattack Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, roger murdock said: If we kept #2, drafted Wentz, and used the cap space to sign capable offensive players I absolutely think Wentz could be the same or better than hes been in Philadelphia, which has been a far from ideal situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I think Hue is done or Sachi is done, most likely Hue unless thigns turn around. i think we need to go back to Kizer, cos Hogan was awful 3ints no yards, passes off target and a safety. I really like what Kizer can be. Our probklem is the two players that touch the ball the most are not that good. Crow plays poorly to good, but very inconsistent. Our B is obviousluy a problem. thanks for your post, and long suffering. We have missed out on a bunch of QB's Trub, Watson, Wentz and mahommes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 21 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: I think Hue is done or Sachi is done, most likely Hue unless thigns turn around. i think we need to go back to Kizer, cos Hogan was awful 3ints no yards, passes off target and a safety. I really like what Kizer can be. Our probklem is the two players that touch the ball the most are not that good. Crow plays poorly to good, but very inconsistent. Our B is obviousluy a problem. thanks for your post, and long suffering. We have missed out on a bunch of QB's Trub, Watson, Wentz and mahommes. Again, Watson and Wentz went to far better situations than Cleveland. And Trubisky and Mahommes have proven absolutely nothing. Also, there was no way we could have gotten Trubisky unless we passed on Garrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Just now, DawgX said: Again, Watson and Wentz went to far better situations than Cleveland. And Trubisky and Mahommes have proven absolutely nothing. Sure. our QB's are worse than JF. and they are wrse than Weeden. and they are worse than Colt McCoy. better than Charlie Frye though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 those guys are better by deafult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, dawgattack said: The reason the Eagles offense is so much better than our offense is.... wait for it.... Carson Wentz. Their supporting cast is nothing special, last year they had the worst WR core in the NFL, mediocre running backs, and a mediocre offensive line. If we drafted Wentz and actually invested our cap space into trying to win, I don't have any doubt we would have a better supporting cast. Our offensive line is better. We could have signed RBs and WRs to round the core out better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HH650 Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 3 hours ago, buno67 said: Do you honestly think Watson or Wentz would be as good as they are currently if they were the QB on this Browns team. Those two are on teams that were a QB away from being competitive. The browns are not a QB away from be competitive. Dont give up that this regime had the stones to do what was needed. A complete tear down was needed for this team and franhcise. I was sick and tired of seeing merely cosmetic fixes to major issues. Those kind of years got your hopes up. If you got your hopes up for this season then you truly were looking at this team with brown and orange colored classes. Yea this team is worse and should be worse than last year. It’s the youngest team in the league, rookie QBS, and lost talent last year to this year. Growing pains are a ******! After 54 years, I do not have a short term view of the Browns. What I see now is that the team passed two apparently viable NFL quarterbacks in the past 2 years and have none on the team now as far as I can see. Had Watson or Wentz been drafted they could have sat and learned if needed while the team got built up in supporting areas. If the plan is to do that, it appears there are two possible flaws. First is missing on draft choices the last two years (four receivers) and the second is assuming as good or better quarterbacks will be on the draft board when your turn comes. Remember Matt Barkley? As of today, it looks like Darnold, Allen and Rosen are regressing. Any way, my concern remains are the personnel decision-makers capable of making the best choices in 2018? I can support the contention that there are at least some doubts about that. For example, will we trust another trade down scenario? Thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, HH650 said: After 54 years, I do not have a short term view of the Browns. What I see now is that the team passed two apparently viable NFL quarterbacks in the past 2 years and have none on the team now as far as I can see. Had Watson or Wentz been drafted they could have sat and learned if needed while the team got built up in supporting areas. If the plan is to do that, it appears there are two possible flaws. First is missing on draft choices the last two years (four receivers) and the second is assuming as good or better quarterbacks will be on the draft board when your turn comes. Remember Matt Barkley? As of today, it looks like Darnold, Allen and Rosen are regressing. Any way, my concern remains are the personnel decision-makers capable of making the best choices in 2018? I can support the contention that there are at least some doubts about that. For example, will we trust another trade down scenario? Thanks to all. What makes you think Watson would of sat this year when Kizer didn’t have the chance to sit. I’m not killing a draft class when it’s been only two years. CC looks like he could be at least a solid #2 but is unlucky right now with the hand injuries. I’m just glad he isn’t hurting major joints like ankles and knees. Some of those young WRs are making some strides. Not huge but something is better than nothing at this moment. Darnold is a tad bit overrated. I don’t think Rosen is regressing his supporting cast isn’t all that great and Allen is just extremely raw. I still think Rosen is the #1 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 hours ago, roger murdock said: Their supporting cast is nothing special If you're talking about last year, then I guess I can get on board, but if you are talking about this year, then I have to disagree. Last year it was so-so. The offensive line was good, especially when Lane Johnson played. Ertz was a good TE and Matthews was a solid slot. The outside receivers and running backs were weak. This year the supporting cast we have around Wentz is pretty good. We have one of the best o-lines in the league. Blount is running it really well. Ertz and Agholor have taken their game up a level. Jeffery and Smith are big upgrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Things are what they are. We've passed on QBs because we've had to. Why? No legit FA's want to come here, especially considering our QB history. Zeitler came because of Hue. FO accrued as many draft picks as possible because there is no other way for us to get enough talent. They tried to get Tony Jefferson. He'd be a huge upgrade over Ibraheim. Who knows who else they tried to get but couldn't. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Two years of picking at the top of the draft and trading down, signing Collins and Zeitler and there are still players out there that shouldn't be. Campbell, Meder, Schobert, the WRs. Hue, Greg, and the FO have made persistent mistakes but they were all put in an impossible situation. Give them time and talent. There's no guarantee that even if we land the 1st pick that Darnold, Rosen, or Jackson will come out. Furthermore, there's no guarantee we can put the team around them for them to have success. This is why I hope these everyone unifies, things start clicking, and we finish the season with a couple wins. Take Barkley or the best defender, sign a WR and DB and draft whatever you need to keep the nobody's off the field. Then we will actually be able to get an accurate gauge on this coaching staff, FO, and the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I have no doubt Wentz would look better here than the garbage we have here. We will regret passing on him. Errrr we already do. He probably wouldn't look like he does in philly, but we could build around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Btw Trubisky was pretty good today. Not saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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