The Trade Chat Thread 🔄

[Bitty 2.0]

1 hour ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Why would Wilson's agent list us as a potential destination? I thought @Frankie2Gunz said we're a talentless, dysfunctional, undesirable franchise no one wants to come to? 🤔

It has nothing to do with talent. It's Vegas, every weekend Wilson will get paid 250,000 to have dinner with some highroller.

[Frankie2Gunz]

28 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

We should probably assume that if his agent said it he had discussed it with Wilson. Or are you saying the report is false?

I’m saying that there is zero proof that Russ said that. Who knows what motivations his agent has. Like I said explain why a perennial winner like Russ would want anything to do with a franchise that has been a dumpster fire for over two decades? 

[oakdb36]

17 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I’m saying that there is zero proof that Russ said that. Who knows what motivations his agent has. Like I said explain why a perennial winner like Russ would want anything to do with a franchise that has been a dumpster fire for over two decades? 

I don't really have to explain anything when the whole discussion stems from the report. You can't really expect fans not to talk about the agent for a top 5 QB mentioning their team as a possible trade destination. We'll see what happens and the most likely outcome is probably nothing at all.

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I don't really have to explain anything when the whole discussion stems from the report. You can't really expect fans not to talk about the agent for a top 5 QB mentioning their team as a possible trade destination. We'll see what happens and the most likely outcome is probably nothing at all.

I'm trying to look at these rumors logically.  I see no reason for a proven winner like Russ giving his blessing to come to a franchise that has been a disaster for over 20 years, to a team that has no direction, a bottom 3 D, a terrible salary cap situation, no proven talent at WR...  Do you want me to keep going because I can and it gets worse. 

Fans eat up these rumors any time a player is cut or is unhappy and like I said zero chance Russ comes here and Russ is one of my favorite players in the NFL.  He nor his agent are not that stupid to really consider going to a team with no direction and has 1 winning season in the last 20 years.  

[oakdb36]

Ok i'll bite. He'd finally have a good oline. He knows Cable and Bradley from their time in Seattle. He'd have an elite player to throw to at TE. Gruden has been high on him since day 1 and, if the reports are true, the main issue between him and Carroll is he wants the offense to be "Wilson centered".

Quote

“I love this pick,” he said at the time. “I’m jealous of Seattle. I wish I could coach this kid.”

“He can run. You can put some creative passes and runs in for Russell Wilson. He can really hurt you scrambling. He plays his best football when the game is on the line,”

“He has tremendous anticipation and touch. A lot of courage. If I were Matt Flynn or Tarvaris Jackson, I’d be weary of this kid… If you give this kid a legitimate chance to win the job, he’ll win it.”

Gruden's comments on draft day.

And the business value of playing in Las Vegas is probably more important than all that.

[Nightmare]

I think it’s easy to question why Wilson would pick the Raiders, a perennial loser. Because in spite of a few average seasons recently, that’s what we’ve been for the longest time. So I totally get that side of Frankie’s (and others’) argument.

That said, Tom Brady joined a Bucs team who last summer had the longest active playoff drought and are still the team with the lowest historical win percentage in the NFL. Brady didn’t look at that and think, “nah, I want to go somewhere they’ve won recently.” These Brady and Wilson types know that their ability and presence can change a culture. Some players in this situation would only want to sign for contenders, but not all.

Look at Wilson’s (apparent) 4 choices. Bears, Cowboys, Raiders, Saints. Whatever his rationale behind these selections are, it doesn’t appear to be recent success...

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

I think it’s easy to question why Wilson would pick the Raiders, a perennial loser. Because in spite of a few average seasons recently, that’s what we’ve been for the longest time. So I totally get that side of Frankie’s (and others’) argument.

That said, Tom Brady joined a Bucs team who last summer had the longest active playoff drought and are still the team with the lowest historical win percentage in the NFL. Brady didn’t look at that and think, “nah, I want to go somewhere they’ve won recently.” These Brady and Wilson types know that their ability and presence can change a culture. Some players in this situation would only want to sign for contenders, but not all.

Look at Wilson’s (apparent) 4 choices. Bears, Cowboys, Raiders, Saints. Whatever his rationale behind these selections are, it doesn’t appear to be recent success...

The Bears, Cowboys, and Saints aren't recent successes by most metrics? The Cowboys looked pretty solid on O before Prescott went down during what was year 1 without the Clap. The Bears are a QB away from solid contention with Green Bay. And as much as I despise Sean Payton, he's an offensive genius who finds weapons in places most people don't even know are places. 

Nothing is keeping the Cowboys out of perennial playoff contention if healthy (NYG and Philly are bad and Washington is a wildcard). 

The Bears could be in a position to overtake Green Bay before long. Detroit is in disrepair. Minnesota is as reliable as Sam Bradford. 

The Saints have some moves to make, but they restock and reload like no other. Tampa won't be able to keep their pace of going for broke for long due to age and salary cap space. Carolina is meh. The Falcons will be in a rebuild for a bit as well. 

All of those make sense as none are a clear cut 3rd best team in their division. 

We're solidly behind KC and likely to be behind LA. If not for Lynn's terrible coaching, the Chargers could have very easily snuck themselves into at least the 7th seed last year. And if Denver finds a QB soon, we could be the worst team in the division. 

Brady went with Tampa solely because they rolled the red carpet out and had the money to add practically whomever Brady demanded. That, too, is not us without getting rid of the few cornerstone type players we have. 

The only reason I can see him listing the Raiders is because of the supposed Gruden magic or anticipating a Tampa-like rolling out of the red carpet for him once we trade away enough guys to build up the capital it would take to get him in the first place. And in that case, he can go away. I'm certainly not giving up the house for him. 

For one, I don't think it would be a good fit. If he thinks Carroll is megalomaniac, he clearly doesn't really know Gruden. What happens when they butt heads? It's the same reason I'm skeptical of Watson. We aren't a particularly stable franchise, and a little bit of better good QB play isn't going to change that. 

And we can't keep citing our O-line. That's ridiculous. We could be replacing 3/5 of it this year alone. 

If he wants to come here, it's not for the team. It MIGHT be for the money potential. It MIGHT be for his wife to play Cher for a bit. It MIGHT be a mix of the two. But it's clearly not a matter of "I believe in what the Raiders are doing right now" because NOBODY knows. No D answers yet, a rebuilding O-line, no alpha WR, and a run game that took a step back is what we have. Again, in that case, he can kindly go fleece someone else. I want guys who see us as destination #1, not a piggy bank concession for if better teams aren't biting. 

Moreover, I still think it would be bad business for us. He would be an extra expensive shiny new toy. He's not a long term answer. After what we'd give up for him, we wouldn't get much better elsewhere. Honestly, and same goes for Watson, my fear is trading valuable assets for him and being stuck in purgatory where Gruden doesn't get canned despite us not improving because our future HoF QB wins us just that 1 or 2 extra games from what Carr scraps us to, only to routinely get shown up come playoff time. 

If we were a solid team being held back by an average-slightly above average QB, sure, I'd pull the trigger on a trade. But the truth is, we're a pretty crappy team buoyed by an average-slightly above average QB. A pretty crappy team winning enough to stay crappy thanks to a HoF caliber QB is all we'd be. G,G,T,WR,RB2*, DT,DT,EDGE,LB,CB,FS. That's a lot of holes that need filling, and not with backup/replacement level talent. Gruden and Mayock should focus on that, not a pricey upgrade at the one skill position we've actually been consistent at. 

 

[Frankie2Gunz]

4 hours ago, Nightmare said:

I think it’s easy to question why Wilson would pick the Raiders, a perennial loser. Because in spite of a few average seasons recently, that’s what we’ve been for the longest time. So I totally get that side of Frankie’s (and others’) argument.

That said, Tom Brady joined a Bucs team who last summer had the longest active playoff drought and are still the team with the lowest historical win percentage in the NFL. Brady didn’t look at that and think, “nah, I want to go somewhere they’ve won recently.” These Brady and Wilson types know that their ability and presence can change a culture. Some players in this situation would only want to sign for contenders, but not all.

Look at Wilson’s (apparent) 4 choices. Bears, Cowboys, Raiders, Saints. Whatever his rationale behind these selections are, it doesn’t appear to be recent success...

Likening the Bucks and the Raiders in terms of talent is downright laughable.  The Bucks had a playoff base in tact that was being held back by a terrible, turnover prone, joke of a QB.  Brady knew it as did anyone who understands football.  Case and point of how bad Ol' Crab legs is, he went to the Saints, Brees got hurt and he didn't see the field...

The Bucks had a very good Oline, two tp 15 WR's in Evans and Godwin, a very talented young TE who was underutilized by Winston and a D littered with talent such as JPP, White, Suh, Via, David and Barrett.  Expalin to me how our talent level is in the same universe as the Bucks?

Now to Wilsons choices... The Bears are similar to the Bucks in that they are close and have been held back by poor QB play, the Saints are clearly a contender and there is no need to explain, the Cowboys have a ton of talent Zeke, Lamb, Gallup, Cooper on O and on D the have Dlaw, LVE, Smith X2...  We have nothing close to this.

Explain to me what we have that would lure Russ to LV?  A new stadium?  Who cares?  No state income tax?  So does his current state of Washington. As @ronjon1990 points out above so his wife can dance around on stage like Cher?  Possibly...

We have been a dumpster fire for twenty years and since Gruden has come back we have shown nothing different.  We have zero proven talent outside of Waller and are in salary cap hell as we are currently about 10 million over the cap with a dumpster fire D.  Zero chance he comes here.  

Edited February 27, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz

[G]

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

Look at Wilson’s (apparent) 4 choices. Bears, Cowboys, Raiders, Saints. Whatever his rationale behind these selections are, it doesn’t appear to be recent success...

Bears for years have looked like a QB away from really making a run for a trophy.

Cowboys are 'America's Team' and it's true that being the starting QB for the Cowboys gives you clot in retirement.

Raiders in Vegas?!? The amount of people who would want a piece of him would be off the charts Hollywood style. Even Gruden's EGO wouldn't be a problem because king in Vegas will feel a lot better than king of Seattle. 

Saints are contenders and had a good D. Brees not a tall guy so the Oline is use to opening windows accordingly. He'd be a great fit there too. 

If I had to choose...I'd chose for him to go to Dallas. Dak's injury is an unknown and he wants more than Russ will be getting. Dallas can 'tag' Dak to trade him as part of the deal so Seattle holds the rights and Jerry would probably give up 3 1sts on top of that to have a shot a two Super Bowls in a three year span. Dallas easily wins the East every year with Russ. The Oline is better than Wilson is use to and the WR's are targets any QB would love. Defense can hold better than ours so...

I'd be shocked if Jerry didn't make a serious offer or two for Wilson.

[agarcia34]

 

[SBXISBXVSBXVIII]

14 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

 

unfair to the bears cowboys and saints because everyone looks good in raider gear

[BackinBlack]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:43 PM, Frankie2Gunz said:

Zero proof Russ has said this... 

Explain to me why Wilson who is seeking success and Championships would want to come to a team with zero direction, one of the leagues worst D's, no proven talent at WR, has a bad salary cap situation and a now questionable Oline with 2 possible holes to fill?  

Do you really think Russ is that stupid?  Like I said keep dreaming because there is zero chance he ends up here.

do you realize there are other things in life than football?
Wilsons wife, Ciara, is a performer - she could do a show every week in vegas and make tonnssssss of money. With no state tax. 
The Wilsons would be the king and queen of Vegas.

I think calling Russ stupid for 'wanting' to go to the raiders is an extremely limited view. The possibilities for his family are endless there. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

7 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

do you realize there are other things in life than football?
Wilsons wife, Ciara, is a performer - she could do a show every week in vegas and make tonnssssss of money. With no state tax. 
The Wilsons would be the king and queen of Vegas.

I think calling Russ stupid for 'wanting' to go to the raiders is an extremely limited view. The possibilities for his family are endless there. 

Explain to me what would motivate Russ to want to come to the Raiders from a football point of view?  

Once again we have no direction, questionable leadership, have had one winning season in the last 20 years, an Oline in turmoil, a RB who averaged 3.9 YPC last year and no depth behind him, unproven WR's and a bottom three D. 

[BackinBlack]

3 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

Explain to me what would motivate Russ to want to come to the Raiders from a football point of view?  

Once again we have no direction, questionable leadership, have had one winning season in the last 20 years, an Oline in turmoil, a RB who averaged 3.9 YPC last year and no depth behind him, unproven WR's and a bottom three D. 

my point is that, maybe its not purely about football. 
why do you think Russell will only base things on football alone?

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 minute ago, BackinBlack said:

my point is that, maybe its not purely about football. 
why do you think Russell will only base things on football alone?

I think Russ is a top two QB but if his motivation isn't to come here and win a championship, rather he is coming here so his wife can cash in and dance around on stage, that would be a hard pass considering the capital we would have to give up to land him.