The Howie Roseman is Elite and I’ve Never Said Anything Different Thread

[Broadway Joe]

16 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

We had a hole in our roster and we filled it. Wow. Even if I am generous enough to give you an LB as a member of the DL.... We needed an edge rusher and we signed one. What a concept. Another shocker: we have two veterans with one year left on their deals.... we drafted a DT to replace one of them going forward(the DT also happened to be a unique prospect). Again, not denying that Howie highly values the trenches... but you are sitting here acting like because we signed Hargrave three years ago we shouldn't even consider drafting a DT until he is no longer on the team. 

Don't overvalue..... more valuable positions? What? Your acting like this team hasn't had a very good DL for YEARS now. News flash: there aren't many TJ Watts and Myles Garretts out there. Graham has been a productive DE for us for over a decade. Cox was an elite DT his entire career. We have had a very good DL for years. Yes our sack numbers were low last year... but that was also a product of the lack of talent we had elsewhere on the defense. And before you point at that and say "WELL THATS MY POINT". No one is denying that we had years of terrible drafts that robbed us of talent across the board. Of course we are going to be bad in a lot of spots when we missed as bad as we did for three years straight.

Wow. Howie sucked at drafting for numerous years. What a shocker. This has nothing to do with philosophy or ignoring positions. We simply didn't have enough resources to build a good team because we missed so badly in the draft. It sucked but that doesn't mean the philosophy is bad.

They did. They drafted three WR's in the first round three years in a row and used another on AJ Brown the following year. And yes, Howie's philosophy is to focus on the trenches.. that is my entire point. It is a good thing. Build the trenches in the draft(both sides), then fill out the skill positions as needed(QB, WR, TE, CB). Find LB's and Safeties on the cheap because they are by far the least important positions on the entire team.

My issue is you frame it as "typical Howie spending everything on DL/OL instead of building a complete roster". It just isn't true. We don't overvalue the trenches, we put the correct value on the most important positions in football. Just look at what we did this offseason. Howie filled EVERY hole we had. He was aggressive as hell and filled holes at even the least valuable positions(LB/S). Does that mean he is perfect? No. But do I respect that he sticks to his philosophy and understands what makes a good football team? Absolutely. 

I'm having a hard time understanding the point of Howie sucking at drafting as a crutch for justifying his , and unlike you I'm not being sarcastic every two sentences, I truly don't get it. if anything it makes it even worse. Because outside of 2017 we don't even address the back 7 to give him a chance to screw them. We seem to be incapable of even identifying what an outside CB looks like, McPherson was a bad pick at the moment and that doesn't seem that is going to change. For a period of time, we had the roster full of nickel CB.

Yes, we've had a good to very good (on their best day) DLine but that should be elite compared to the amount of resources we have spent(maybe this is the year?). The thing is, a DLine does not a defense make. And often times we see teams three step dropping and killing us all game. Now we have a CB that can play press (finally!) so this might take the defense to another level, but it won't be because we spent more on the DLine. 

Yes, he sucks at drafting and he thinks he is better than what he thinks he is, he is very good with trades and quick rebuilds but his teams always have the same deficiencies. We should be looking at our positions of needs and seeing the same every year. That's my frustration, every year we adress the same areas and go into the draft with the same needs. And oddly enough, this year was not exception, and we came out with the same issues, but Bradberry and Epps fell into our laps and now things are good, but for this season only. Because next year we will still need at least one outside CB, one Safety, one DL but maybe not LB! And my point is, it will not be the end of the world if we go in 2023 with Sweat and Reddick as our edges, finally get one of the other needs out of the way for good. 

[Broadway Joe]

1 minute ago, MikeT14 said:

 

 

To the Vikings!

That just adds insult to injury. To our FO and specially to him. 

Pretty much a salary dump I guess. 

[MikeT14]

Just now, Broadway Joe said:

To the Vikings!

That just adds insult to injury. To our FO and specially to him. 

Pretty much a salary dump I guess. 

I'd like to see the statistical measures he has to hit to not become a 5th. 

[Nabbs4u]

Horrible trade value for Reagor, other then getting him off this team.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Nabbs4u

[Jroc04]

I was looking forward to seeing him operate without any pressure this year. But oh well. That’s a good haul for a guy that never seemed to have anything special about him.  I’m sure he’ll bounce around a couple teams and call it a career in a few years. A 7th and a 5th for, essentially, unproven talent works for me. I guess no one gets cut from the Book pickup now. 

[Scalamania]

It finally happened - somehow we managed to get a decent return for what could be the worst WR in the NFL. 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

Reagor gone is good. Had nothing to do in our offense. Maybe he can pickup something from a real WR(I doubt it).

[EaglesFlySBChampsHigh]

8 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

I was looking forward to seeing him operate without any pressure this year. But oh well. That’s a good haul for a guy that never seemed to have anything special about him.  I’m sure he’ll bounce around a couple teams and call it a career in a few years. A 7th and a 5th for, essentially, unproven talent works for me. I guess no one gets cut from the Book pickup now. 

I wanted to see it too but I'm ok with the return. Hopefully he hits those 4th round stats 

[Jroc04]

To the Vikings. Even with all the jokes, the Vikings still must have liked Reagor enough to draft him. Just not with a 1, I guess. Odd  

Still though, I’m not giving up two football players for Reagor. Even two late rounders. Howie exacts a bit of revenge on this trade. Ultimately a big L though. 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

20 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

I'm having a hard time understanding the point of Howie sucking at drafting as a crutch for justifying his , and unlike you I'm not being sarcastic every two sentences, I truly don't get it. if anything it makes it even worse. Because outside of 2017 we don't even address the back 7 to give him a chance to screw them. We seem to be incapable of even identifying what an outside CB looks like, McPherson was a bad pick at the moment and that doesn't seem that is going to change. For a period of time, we had the roster full of nickel CB.

Yes, we've had a good to very good (on their best day) DLine but that should be elite compared to the amount of resources we have spent(maybe this is the year?). The thing is, a DLine does not a defense make. And often times we see teams three step dropping and killing us all game. Now we have a CB that can play press (finally!) so this might take the defense to another level, but it won't be because we spent more on the DLine. 

Yes, he sucks at drafting and he thinks he is better than what he thinks he is, he is very good with trades and quick rebuilds but his teams always have the same deficiencies. We should be looking at our positions of needs and seeing the same every year. That's my frustration, every year we adress the same areas and go into the draft with the same needs. And oddly enough, this year was not exception, and we came out with the same issues, but Bradberry and Epps fell into our laps and now things are good, but for this season only. Because next year we will still need at least one outside CB, one Safety, one DL but maybe not LB! And my point is, it will not be the end of the world if we go in 2023 with Sweat and Reddick as our edges, finally get one of the other needs out of the way for good. 

I am curious... what exactly is your philosophy for building a team? You sure do complain a lot without offering any solutions other than "draft something else!". You keep acting like we aren't drafting what our team needs and we are just loading up on lineman... that couldn't be further from true. You say we are forced to spend in FA and make trades to cover the holes because we don't draft well outside of the trenches, but wasn't your entire point that it wasn't just the draft you were talking about but also how much money we spend on the trenches?

You discuss results. I discuss philosophy. "We go into the season with the same needs" doesn't really matter. Who cares. Every NFL team has holes to fill every offseason outside of one or two truly elite teams. The goal is to minimize the holes and build a team around what is most important. Going into the draft and drafting a CB because we "need a CB" is how we end up with JJAW, Dillard, and Reagor like players. Drafting for year one is nearsighted and how you kill your roster long term(the thing that I think we struggled the most with under Doug).

Reality is: Howie has kept the Eagles in the conversation as a competitive team for years now. We had down years. We had multiple bad drafts. The Eagles have still been to the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years and before he got pushed out by Chip we went to the playoffs 4 out of 6 years(2 out of 4 after he became GM). His philosophy works. And again this isn't me just blindly saying Howie is perfect. He sucked there for quite a while, but now that he has gone back to his roots he has been doing much better and has built a very complete roster.

[Broadway Joe]

10 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

I am curious... what exactly is your philosophy for building a team? You sure do complain a lot without offering any solutions other than "draft something else!". You keep acting like we aren't drafting what our team needs and we are just loading up on lineman... that couldn't be further from true. You say we are forced to spend in FA and make trades to cover the holes because we don't draft well outside of the trenches, but wasn't your entire point that it wasn't just the draft you were talking about but also how much money we spend on the trenches?

You discuss results. I discuss philosophy. "We go into the season with the same needs" doesn't really matter. Who cares. Every NFL team has holes to fill every offseason outside of one or two truly elite teams. The goal is to minimize the holes and build a team around what is most important. Going into the draft and drafting a CB because we "need a CB" is how we end up with JJAW, Dillard, and Reagor like players. Drafting for year one is nearsighted and how you kill your roster long term(the thing that I think we struggled the most with under Doug).

Reality is: Howie has kept the Eagles in the conversation as a competitive team for years now. We had down years. We had multiple bad drafts. The Eagles have still been to the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years and before he got pushed out by Chip we went to the playoffs 4 out of 6 years(2 out of 4 after he became GM). His philosophy works. And again this isn't me just blindly saying Howie is perfect. He sucked there for quite a while, but now that he has gone back to his roots he has been doing much better and has built a very complete roster.

I'm not sure I would have my own philosophy, but I for real like whatever the Cowboys do at evaluating talent and a building a balanced team. They are much better than us in that regard, but they suck in other aspects, just like we pretty much suck at drafting and are better at trades. Don't misinterpret me for me saying we should be like they are in all aspects. Now if we could have McClay's draft prowess with Howies dealing, that would be a hell of a FO. 

It's not so hard to understand that I don't want DL/OL above all else nor do I want the Chip Kelly version in which we only drafted Lane in that tenure. The thing is, those players were not entirely a product of drafting for need, were completely miss on player evualuation. The right players were there, we just went the wrong route, because drafting is not our forte. 

As I sidenote, I don't think he is "back to his roots". We have been fooled before thinking he has changed. I won't fall again, unless we win a second SB with him. Then he would be the Eli Manning of GM, and I'd be okay with that. 

[Jeezla]

55 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said:

Reality is: Howie has kept the Eagles in the conversation as a competitive team for years now.

Jerry Jones has basically done the same with the Cowboys. Do you think he's a great GM? SB year aside, the Cowboys and Eagles are just about as successful as one another in the playoffs. We're in the conversation for teams competing for playoffs, but we aren't in the conversations for teams considered "powerhouses". When the media talk about us, it's usually as a team you expect to sneak into the playoffs or win their bad division, rather than a team you expect to be capable of going on a deep playoff run, let a lone winning the SB.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Jeezla

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

4 hours ago, Jeezla said:

Jerry Jones has basically done the same with the Cowboys. Do you think he's a great GM? SB year aside, the Cowboys and Eagles are just about as successful as one another in the playoffs. We're in the conversation for teams competing for playoffs, but we aren't in the conversations for teams considered "powerhouses". When the media talk about us, it's usually as a team you expect to sneak into the playoffs or win their bad division, rather than a team you expect to be capable of going on a deep playoff run, let a lone winning the SB.

See here is the thing. I am not going to just remove the fact that we won a SB with Howie from the picture to make a point. That's ridiculous. Winning a championship is hard. No the Eagles haven't been the Patriots, the Packers, or the Chiefs.... but what did those teams all have in common? Being a "SB Favorite" according to the media is equivalent with having an elite QB. We have really never had that. Is that on Howie for not drafting/finding one? Yeah sure. But it isn't like many GMs in the league are much better at it realistically. 

That said, the Cowboys are a successful organization overall. They regularly put out good teams that can compete for playoff spots. The Eagles are the same.

I don't care what the media says. I don't care about your perception of success especially since you have said multiple times if you don't win the SB your season in a failure. I care about living in reality. Howie isn't perfect, he is far from it. That said his strengths are apparent and his philosophy of building through the trenches first has helped us maintain competence for the entire length of my fandom(with some blips of garbage). If Howie can just keep his head straight and continue to draft well, this team is going to be good for a long time assuming the QB position sorts itself out along the way.

[Kiltman]

Howie bringing some spice

 

[AZ_Eaglesfan]

10 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Howie bringing some spice

 

GOAT and I have never said otherwise.