Questions the Saints need to answer this off-season:

[whodatworm23]

Questions the Saints need to answer this offseason:

 

 

#1. Are we all in on Winston?

The Saints and Sean Payton are putting the full court press on Jameis Winston right now, anyone and everyone now knows that the organization wants a Winston to return and that he’s basically in the driver’s seat for the teams starting quarterback job. The only thing that could derail Winston’s return IMO is if he starts to get wind that the team truly isn’t all in on him in 2021. I’m sure Winston understands that next year would be basically a trial run for both parties to see how it works out with hopes of a future long-term lucrative deal but at the very least Winston will want to know that Payton is committed to giving him his opportunity to win this job but if he begins to feel like Payton isn’t as committed as he claims then he will have no other option than to at least listen to other options in free agency that may offer him more money and a more direct path to a long-term extension.

 

 

#2. What to do with Taysom Hill if he’s not the guy?

After Drew Brees restructured his contract the Saints are now 75 million over the projected cap. If the Saints resign Winston, how can you justify as an organization losing potential young veteran free agents due to cap issues while at the same time paying Hill 16 million in 2021? The answer is you can’t! If Hill is not the Saints starting quarterback in 2021 then his contract will have to be addressed. The issue is that Hill does not have to comply with an extension if its clear the team no longer views him as their future starting quarterback. Hill can easily refuse to enter negotiations with the Saints opting to make his money in 2021 and hit the free agent market in 2022 in hopes of a team willing to give him an opportunity to earn a starting quarterback job Understanding that , that path for Hill is potentially his most lucrative option. In that case the Saints could be forced to place Hill on the trading  block in which the team could acquire draft assets and free up over 12 million in cap space in 2021. However, if for some reason, Hill accepts his fate as the teams backup moving forward and is content with his utility role in the Saints offense, the Saints could extend Hill for another 2-3 seasons at top backup money which would free up around 10-11 million in 2021. Either way the team slices it, Hills contract has now become the big elephant in the room.

 

 

#3. Is the relationship between Mike Thomas and the franchise repairable?

Don’t kid yourself… the relationship between Thomas and the team is strained at the moment. Also trading Thomas this off-season just isn’t smart business right now. For better or worse both parties will be together in 2021 and hopefully they can kiss and make up. I think a major part of this union moving forward will be how the Saints quarterback position plays out next season. Mike Thomas is a different dude and he’s dead set on establishing a Hall of Fame worthy career. If Thomas decides in 2021 that the Saints current state at quarterback isn’t on par with his personal goals, I could very well see Thomas trying to force his way out of New Orleans and he has the type of personality to make it very detrimental to the team which would lead the team to eventually move him as they did with Brandin Cooks a few years ago.

 

 

#4. Is Terron Armstead a part of the teams long-term future?

Armstead is one of the best left tackles in the NFL… when healthy. That latter part is a big issue. Still Armstead is a great player who will only be 30 years old when the 2021 season begins. The problem is that Armstead is entering the final year of his contract and the going rate to extend a player of his caliber is around 17-20 million per year. Will Armstead want to be paid as a top Left Tackle? Will the Saints be willing to pay him as such? Do the Saints value Armstead over retaining the likes of Marcus Williams or Trey Hendrickson? If the answer is yes and Armstead is willing to accept a team friendly extension to remain in New Orleans then I think this deal gets hammered out fairly easily but if the Saints feel their money is better invested elsewhere in younger players with their eye toward the future the Saints could then trade Armsted for a treasure trove of draft picks and free up an additional 6.8 million in cap space.

 

 

#5. Will Ryan Ramczyk and his agent want Left Tackle money?

Ramczyk’s asking price will directly accept how the team views Armstead’s future. Ram is the younger and more consistently available player between the two and is clearly the one the Saints would choose if put into a position where they are forced to. Questions remain, is Ramczyk content at Right Tackle? We are seeing right now in Baltimore where their Right Tackle Orlando Brown is demanding a trade because he wants to be a Left Tackle. The left side is a far more lucrative spot to cash in on and Ram was a Left Tackle at Wisconsin. What will he and his agent demand privately in contract negotiations? Ram has a lot of leverage in these negotiations because of the obvious need for the Saints to open cap space so expect his agent to push their agenda at contract time.

 

 

#6. Should they move Erik McCoy to Guard and Cesar Ruiz to Center?

This is the first issue that’s not about money. The Saints drafted Cesar Ruiz 24^th overall last year and let’s just say his time at Right Guard was less than stellar. Erik McCoy who was drafted the year before in the 2^nd round was the returning starter at Center and word was that Brees was not keen on going through his final season learning a new rookie Center again. Both Ruiz and McCoy have posit I n flexibility but McCoy possesses the physical traits to excel at Guard more so than Ruiz. McCoy, at 6’4” 315 lbs has the size, power and athleticism to really become a all-pro Right Guard where as Ruiz body stature and talent is most suitable back at Center where he played at Michigan.

 

 

#7. Is Adam Troutman ready to be the teams starting Tight End?

The Saints will be thin at Tight End in 2021 regardless but the bigger question is whether or not Sean Payton is willing to give Troutman the opportunity to develop into the teams starter on the fly. Troutman was an impressive small school prospect last year and he showed flashes in 2020 as a good player. Veteran Josh Hill will provide a nice veteran presence behind Troutman and I think due to their cap restraints this is a position where the Saints will have to ride with what they have and hope that Troutman establishes himself in 2021 or do they have to look for another starter in 2022.

 

 

#8. Is Cameron Jordan in a decline?

Jordan is still a stout edge setter and run defender but he went through a down year by his standards as a pass rusher. After scouting his tape in 2020 this wasn’t due to excessive double teams but more so simply poor play. In fact towards the end of the season opposing teams actually began using their backs to chip on Trey Hendrickson, not Jordan. More than once Jordan was handled by rookies and backups one on one, at one point Jordan getting ejected in a game for throwing a punch. Was he playing through an injury? I’m not so sure… did he just have a down season or is this a glimpse of what is the beginning of a sharp decline for Jordan? Jordan will be 32 years old in 2021 and is one of the Saints top 3 in terms of pay. He will be entering his 11^th season in 2021 and is clearly on the backend of his career. I have little doubt that Jordan will be back next year but 2021 will be a huge year for him as far as his future in New Orleans is concerned regardless if the team is able to retain Hendrickson or Marcus Davenport shedding the bust label.

 

 

#9. Is Trey Hendrickson a one year wonder?

This one is fairly simple… if the Saints believe that Hendrickson isn’t a one year wonder and feel he is a top NFL edge rusher who just hitting his peak then it’s a no brainer, you do whatever you have to, to retain him. However if the Saints brass feel that Hendrickson is merely a 6-8 per year sack guy and rotational player that hit it big in a contract year then you simply let him walk in free agency. I personally feel Hendrickson falls somewhere in the middle of that but the Saints aren’t in a position to over pay an average player and Hendrickson will get PAID when and if he hits the open market.

 

 

#10. Who plays next to Demario Davis next year?

It seems like ever since the Saints acquired Davis in free agency a few years ago they have been trying to find him a running mate. They had AJ Klein for a while until he priced himself out of New Orleans, then the team drafted Alex Anzalone who never really paned out. Last year they traded up for Zach Baun who went MIA during the 2020 season which lead the Saints to trading a 5^th round pick during the season for Kown Alexander who played well but eventually tore his Achillesis and has a 13 million dollar 2021 cap hit. Its pretty clear that the Saints will enter this off-season once again searching for that guy either in free agency or the draft.

 

 

#11. How much is Marcus Williams really worth?

I understand the Saints have a history under Mickey Loomis of not resigning safeties. Malcolm Jenkins, Kenny Vaccaro and Vonn Bell to name a few but Williams is a different case. The Saints employ the single high safety look as their last line of defense and they covet a player with ball skills in that position. Payton has coveted that since he had Darren Sharper help propel this team to a Superbowl with his ball hawking ability, it’s a major reason the Saints took a gamble on free agent bust Jairus Byrd a few years ago. Yes strong safeties and nickel linebackers are interchangeable but safeties with Williams range and ball skills are rare. The question is though, how much does the Saints value Williams financially? Do they value him enough to make him the NFLs highest paid player at his position? For comparison, Arizona Budda Baker is currently the NFLs highest paid safety at 14.75 million per year and plays a similar style to that of Williams, over the last 4 seasons Baker has amassed 20 pass defends, 5 forced fumbles and 2 interceptions on the back end. During that same time Williams has 30 pass defends, 2 force fumbles and 13 interceptions. Those numbers are going to get a safety PAID in unrestricted free agency especially when you factor in the fact that Williams just turned 24 years of age and still has tremendous upside.

 

 

#12. How to handle Marshon Lattimore’s contract moving forward?

I have little doubt that Lattimore is in the Saints long-term plans, the issue is that he has been somewhat inconsistent and the Saints might want to see how he responds in a contract year before committing the type of dollars its going to take to get him signed long-term. I feel the Saints would prefer to allow Lattimore to play out his current deal in 2021 and try to work out an extension next off-season if all goes well and even be in position to place the franchise tag on him in 2022 if need be. Lattimore has all the ability to be one of the better corners in the NFL but he needs to do it consistently and stop playing down to the level of his competition before the Saints reward him with the long-term deal he wants.

 

 

#13. Should we bring back Janoris Jenkins for one more season?

Everyone knows by now that the Saints have a ton of cap space to shed before the start of the leagues new year. High priced veterans with high cap numbers and cap savings will all be potential cap casualties for the Saints from here on out. Jenkins clearly fits into that category especially at his age. The issue is that Jenkins actually played fairly well in 2020 as the counterpart to Lattimore and the Saints 3^rd and 4^th corners will be unrestricted free agents this off-season. Can the Saints convince Jenkins to return on a restructured team friendly deal that doesn’t tie them to the 34 year old beyond the 2021 season or will Jenkins look to hit the open market and try to cash in one last time before his career is over?

 

 

#14. Is their a better, cheaper option at Nose Tackle besides restructuring Malcolm Brown?

The Saints made their decision on Sheldon Rankins when they resigned David Onyemata long-term last off-season. The question now becomes what to do at the Nose Tackle position. The team can save close to 6 million by cutting starter Malcolm Brown, but Brown is still a young solid player that could likely be restructured and brought back. However the Saints have a couple promising cheaper options behind Brown in Shy Tuttle and Malcolm Roach. The one thing the Saints hung their hat on this past season was their depth along the defensive line, are they willing to take a major hit to that depth this off-season or will they look to keep as much of it intact as possible?

 

 

#15. Is it time to turn the page on Thomas Moorestead?

Thomas Moorestead had maybe his worst season of his career in 2020 at 34 years old the Saints can opt to either restructure Moorestead or decide to go with Blake Gillikin whom they stashed on injured reserve and even went as far as keeping on the 53 man roster in 2020 in order to keep him for getting scooped up by another team. Clearly the Saints think very highly of Gillikin which could mean it’s the end of the line for Moorestead with the Saints.

 

 

 

WHODAT

[tyler735]

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

Questions the Saints need to answer this offseason:

 

 

#1. Are we all in on Winston?

The Saints and Sean Payton are putting the full court press on Jameis Winston right now, anyone and everyone now knows that the organization wants a Winston to return and that he’s basically in the driver’s seat for the teams starting quarterback job. The only thing that could derail Winston’s return IMO is if he starts to get wind that the team truly isn’t all in on him in 2021. I’m sure Winston understands that next year would be basically a trial run for both parties to see how it works out with hopes of a future long-term lucrative deal but at the very least Winston will want to know that Payton is committed to giving him his opportunity to win this job but if he begins to feel like Payton isn’t as committed as he claims then he will have no other option than to at least listen to other options in free agency that may offer him more money and a more direct path to a long-term extension.

I think they take a hard look at Mac Jones in the draft. If they can't land him (even with a potential trade up), then I think Winston is the guy with a 1 year audition as our starter.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

 #2. What to do with Taysom Hill if he’s not the guy?

After Drew Brees restructured his contract the Saints are now 75 million over the projected cap. If the Saints resign Winston, how can you justify as an organization losing potential young veteran free agents due to cap issues while at the same time paying Hill 16 million in 2021? The answer is you can’t! If Hill is not the Saints starting quarterback in 2021 then his contract will have to be addressed. The issue is that Hill does not have to comply with an extension if its clear the team no longer views him as their future starting quarterback. Hill can easily refuse to enter negotiations with the Saints opting to make his money in 2021 and hit the free agent market in 2022 in hopes of a team willing to give him an opportunity to earn a starting quarterback job Understanding that , that path for Hill is potentially his most lucrative option. In that case the Saints could be forced to place Hill on the trading  block in which the team could acquire draft assets and free up over 12 million in cap space in 2021. However, if for some reason, Hill accepts his fate as the teams backup moving forward and is content with his utility role in the Saints offense, the Saints could extend Hill for another 2-3 seasons at top backup money which would free up around 10-11 million in 2021. Either way the team slices it, Hills contract has now become the big elephant in the room.

Payton loves him in that gadget role with ability to fill in at QB in a pinch. I think he'll be back in that capacity.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

 #3. Is the relationship between Mike Thomas and the franchise repairable?

Don’t kid yourself… the relationship between Thomas and the team is strained at the moment. Also trading Thomas this off-season just isn’t smart business right now. For better or worse both parties will be together in 2021 and hopefully they can kiss and make up. I think a major part of this union moving forward will be how the Saints quarterback position plays out next season. Mike Thomas is a different dude and he’s dead set on establishing a Hall of Fame worthy career. If Thomas decides in 2021 that the Saints current state at quarterback isn’t on par with his personal goals, I could very well see Thomas trying to force his way out of New Orleans and he has the type of personality to make it very detrimental to the team which would lead the team to eventually move him as they did with Brandin Cooks a few years ago.

I'd imagine a healthy season with a younger QB will likely do wonders for that relationship. If Thomas has a healthy season, I'm guessing this will be an irrelevant discussion piece going forward.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

 #4. Is Terron Armstead a part of the teams long-term future?

Armstead is one of the best left tackles in the NFL… when healthy. That latter part is a big issue. Still Armstead is a great player who will only be 30 years old when the 2021 season begins. The problem is that Armstead is entering the final year of his contract and the going rate to extend a player of his caliber is around 17-20 million per year. Will Armstead want to be paid as a top Left Tackle? Will the Saints be willing to pay him as such? Do the Saints value Armstead over retaining the likes of Marcus Williams or Trey Hendrickson? If the answer is yes and Armstead is willing to accept a team friendly extension to remain in New Orleans then I think this deal gets hammered out fairly easily but if the Saints feel their money is better invested elsewhere in younger players with their eye toward the future the Saints could then trade Armsted for a treasure trove of draft picks and free up an additional 6.8 million in cap space.

I could see him being a guy that gets moved on from in the coming seasons. He turns 30 this year and doesn't have a great track record staying healthy. I think it's getting close to the end for him here.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#5. Will Ryan Ramczyk and his agent want Left Tackle money?

Ramczyk’s asking price will directly accept how the team views Armstead’s future. Ram is the younger and more consistently available player between the two and is clearly the one the Saints would choose if put into a position where they are forced to. Questions remain, is Ramczyk content at Right Tackle? We are seeing right now in Baltimore where their Right Tackle Orlando Brown is demanding a trade because he wants to be a Left Tackle. The left side is a far more lucrative spot to cash in on and Ram was a Left Tackle at Wisconsin. What will he and his agent demand privately in contract negotiations? Ram has a lot of leverage in these negotiations because of the obvious need for the Saints to open cap space so expect his agent to push their agenda at contract time.

Either way he needs to be back. It likely won't be cheap, but elite tackles are hard to come by and he's still got plenty of football ahead of him at 27 years old when the season starts.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

 #6. Should they move Erik McCoy to Guard and Cesar Ruiz to Center?

This is the first issue that’s not about money. The Saints drafted Cesar Ruiz 24^th overall last year and let’s just say his time at Right Guard was less than stellar. Erik McCoy who was drafted the year before in the 2^nd round was the returning starter at Center and word was that Brees was not keen on going through his final season learning a new rookie Center again. Both Ruiz and McCoy have posit I n flexibility but McCoy possesses the physical traits to excel at Guard more so than Ruiz. McCoy, at 6’4” 315 lbs has the size, power and athleticism to really become a all-pro Right Guard where as Ruiz body stature and talent is most suitable back at Center where he played at Michigan.

I think we need to give Ruiz another season at Guard. We know that McCoy is a high quality Center and I'd be hesitant to move him. Ruiz seemed to improve some as the season went on. 

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#7. Is Adam Troutman ready to be the teams starting Tight End?

The Saints will be thin at Tight End in 2021 regardless but the bigger question is whether or not Sean Payton is willing to give Troutman the opportunity to develop into the teams starter on the fly. Troutman was an impressive small school prospect last year and he showed flashes in 2020 as a good player. Veteran Josh Hill will provide a nice veteran presence behind Troutman and I think due to their cap restraints this is a position where the Saints will have to ride with what they have and hope that Troutman establishes himself in 2021 or do they have to look for another starter in 2022.

I'm ready to give him a shot as our starting TE. Made some nice plays catching the ball late in the season and looks to be a quality blocker. Might not be the Jimmy Graham type receiving TE, but I think he can be a good all around TE for us.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#8. Is Cameron Jordan in a decline?

Jordan is still a stout edge setter and run defender but he went through a down year by his standards as a pass rusher. After scouting his tape in 2020 this wasn’t due to excessive double teams but more so simply poor play. In fact towards the end of the season opposing teams actually began using their backs to chip on Trey Hendrickson, not Jordan. More than once Jordan was handled by rookies and backups one on one, at one point Jordan getting ejected in a game for throwing a punch. Was he playing through an injury? I’m not so sure… did he just have a down season or is this a glimpse of what is the beginning of a sharp decline for Jordan? Jordan will be 32 years old in 2021 and is one of the Saints top 3 in terms of pay. He will be entering his 11^th season in 2021 and is clearly on the backend of his career. I have little doubt that Jordan will be back next year but 2021 will be a huge year for him as far as his future in New Orleans is concerned regardless if the team is able to retain Hendrickson or Marcus Davenport shedding the bust label.

I could see a restructure in his future if he is to stay with us. No longer an elite DE, but still good enough to be an impact player for us.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#9. Is Trey Hendrickson a one year wonder?

This one is fairly simple… if the Saints believe that Hendrickson isn’t a one year wonder and feel he is a top NFL edge rusher who just hitting his peak then it’s a no brainer, you do whatever you have to, to retain him. However if the Saints brass feel that Hendrickson is merely a 6-8 per year sack guy and rotational player that hit it big in a contract year then you simply let him walk in free agency. I personally feel Hendrickson falls somewhere in the middle of that but the Saints aren’t in a position to over pay an average player and Hendrickson will get PAID when and if he hits the open market.

Nope, I think he's the real deal and just scratching the surface of his potential. He has the size and athleticism you look for in a high end DE. He also has shown he can beat Tackles with speed, strength, and pass rush technique. He's my #1 priority to bring back on defense this year.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

 #10. Who plays next to Demario Davis next year?

It seems like ever since the Saints acquired Davis in free agency a few years ago they have been trying to find him a running mate. They had AJ Klein for a while until he priced himself out of New Orleans, then the team drafted Alex Anzalone who never really paned out. Last year they traded up for Zach Baun who went MIA during the 2020 season which lead the Saints to trading a 5^th round pick during the season for Kown Alexander who played well but eventually tore his Achillesis and has a 13 million dollar 2021 cap hit. Its pretty clear that the Saints will enter this off-season once again searching for that guy either in free agency or the draft.

This is a tough one. We may draft a guy early, or depending on where Kwon is with his recovery from his injury, he may be willing to come back on a cheap deal. Not sure what to make of Zach Baun at this point, but I was really high on him going into the draft last year and would hope we see more out of him in year 2.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#11. How much is Marcus Williams really worth?

I understand the Saints have a history under Mickey Loomis of not resigning safeties. Malcolm Jenkins, Kenny Vaccaro and Vonn Bell to name a few but Williams is a different case. The Saints employ the single high safety look as their last line of defense and they covet a player with ball skills in that position. Payton has coveted that since he had Darren Sharper help propel this team to a Superbowl with his ball hawking ability, it’s a major reason the Saints took a gamble on free agent bust Jairus Byrd a few years ago. Yes strong safeties and nickel linebackers are interchangeable but safeties with Williams range and ball skills are rare. The question is though, how much does the Saints value Williams financially? Do they value him enough to make him the NFLs highest paid player at his position? For comparison, Arizona Budda Baker is currently the NFLs highest paid safety at 14.75 million per year and plays a similar style to that of Williams, over the last 4 seasons Baker has amassed 20 pass defends, 5 forced fumbles and 2 interceptions on the back end. During that same time Williams has 30 pass defends, 2 force fumbles and 13 interceptions. Those numbers are going to get a safety PAID in unrestricted free agency especially when you factor in the fact that Williams just turned 24 years of age and still has tremendous upside.

I feel like I'm lower on him than most in regards to our priorities this offseason. I'd like to have him back, but if not, it wouldn't be a huge loss to me. Probably wouldn't have a great replacement for him right away, but if it comes down to him or a guy like Hendrickson or Lattimore...It's an easy decision for me.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#12. How to handle Marshon Lattimore’s contract moving forward?

I have little doubt that Lattimore is in the Saints long-term plans, the issue is that he has been somewhat inconsistent and the Saints might want to see how he responds in a contract year before committing the type of dollars its going to take to get him signed long-term. I feel the Saints would prefer to allow Lattimore to play out his current deal in 2021 and try to work out an extension next off-season if all goes well and even be in position to place the franchise tag on him in 2022 if need be. Lattimore has all the ability to be one of the better corners in the NFL but he needs to do it consistently and stop playing down to the level of his competition before the Saints reward him with the long-term deal he wants.

It really comes down to how he values himself. If he thinks he is a Ramsey caliber CB and deserves that kind of money, then we need to show him the door and find a replacement, if not, then I hope we can find the money to bring him back.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#13. Should we bring back Janoris Jenkins for one more season?

Everyone knows by now that the Saints have a ton of cap space to shed before the start of the leagues new year. High priced veterans with high cap numbers and cap savings will all be potential cap casualties for the Saints from here on out. Jenkins clearly fits into that category especially at his age. The issue is that Jenkins actually played fairly well in 2020 as the counterpart to Lattimore and the Saints 3^rd and 4^th corners will be unrestricted free agents this off-season. Can the Saints convince Jenkins to return on a restructured team friendly deal that doesn’t tie them to the 34 year old beyond the 2021 season or will Jenkins look to hit the open market and try to cash in one last time before his career is over?

Think he needs to be in that 2nd wave of resignings. If we can retain our key young guys, then sure, bring him back on a fairly cheap contract, if not he's gotta go.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#14. Is their a better, cheaper option at Nose Tackle besides restructuring Malcolm Brown?

The Saints made their decision on Sheldon Rankins when they resigned David Onyemata long-term last off-season. The question now becomes what to do at the Nose Tackle position. The team can save close to 6 million by cutting starter Malcolm Brown, but Brown is still a young solid player that could likely be restructured and brought back. However the Saints have a couple promising cheaper options behind Brown in Shy Tuttle and Malcolm Roach. The one thing the Saints hung their hat on this past season was their depth along the defensive line, are they willing to take a major hit to that depth this off-season or will they look to keep as much of it intact as possible?

Think he's gone. Not worth the money given our cap situation.

On 2/10/2021 at 4:04 PM, whodatworm23 said:

#15. Is it time to turn the page on Thomas Moorestead?

Thomas Moorestead had maybe his worst season of his career in 2020 at 34 years old the Saints can opt to either restructure Moorestead or decide to go with Blake Gillikin whom they stashed on injured reserve and even went as far as keeping on the 53 man roster in 2020 in order to keep him for getting scooped up by another team. Clearly the Saints think very highly of Gillikin which could mean it’s the end of the line for Moorestead with the Saints.

Also think he's gone. If I recall we had another punter ready to go last year, and I think that was a sign of things to come. It's been a good run with Moorestead.

 

[whodatworm23]

I see him higher on Williams than you... ball hawking centerfielders are rare and Williams has been very good over the last 4 seasons. 

 

13 INTs and he's still only 24. He plays almost 100% of our defensive snaps, not a rotational player. I think he's part of our core to build around.

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, whodatworm23 said:

I see him higher on Williams than you... ball hawking centerfielders are rare and Williams has been very good over the last 4 seasons. 

 

13 INTs and he's still only 24. He plays almost 100% of our defensive snaps, not a rotational player. I think he's part of our core to build around.

He'd be nice to have back but he's my 4th most important resigning this off-season behind:

Ramczyk

Hendrickson

Lattimore 

If it works out, awesome, if not, I view those other guys as more important players to bring back.

[Raves]

16 hours ago, tyler735 said:

He'd be nice to have back but he's my 4th most important resigning this off-season behind:

Ramczyk

Hendrickson

Lattimore 

If it works out, awesome, if not, I view those other guys as more important players to bring back.

I'd put Williams over Hendrickson.  It's easier to find a pass rushing specialist DE than it is to find even a safety as good as Williams

[tyler735]

8 minutes ago, Raves said:

I'd put Williams over Hendrickson.  It's easier to find a pass rushing specialist DE than it is to find even a safety as good as Williams

Disagree a high end pass rusher is more valuable to me than Williams who is a good not great Free Safety. I think Hendrickson has a much higher ceiling as well going forward.

[whodatworm23]

9 minutes ago, Raves said:

I'd put Williams over Hendrickson.  It's easier to find a pass rushing specialist DE than it is to find even a safety as good as Williams

As much as I like Hendrickson... I have to agree Raves. 13 INTs at only 24 with his range and in this defensive scheme and how much it depends on that single high safety. I have to put Williams as a higher priority.

[whodatworm23]

1 minute ago, tyler735 said:

Disagree a high end pass rusher is more valuable to me than Williams who is a good not great Free Safety. I think Hendrickson has a much higher ceiling as well going forward.

Man I like Hendrickson too, sacks are great but turnovers change games. Williams is 3 years younger, plays far more defensive snaps, is more vital to our defensive scheme and has had 13 ints over the last 4 seasons.

 

Hendrickson is good and will hate to lose him but I can't place him as a higher priority than Williams. Williams is a LOT better than what people realize.

[whodatworm23]

16 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Disagree a high end pass rusher is more valuable to me than Williams who is a good not great Free Safety. I think Hendrickson has a much higher ceiling as well going forward.

Another thing the Saints and other teams really have to consider is this... Robert Quinn of the Bears, Mario Addison of the Bills and Dante Fowler Jr. Of the Falcons. All turned 2019 breakout sack seasons into 2020 lucrative free agent deals and each team is really regretting it right now. Would not be shocked if all are released this off-season if the teams have built in outs in the deals.

 

This could drive Hendrickson's price down... or at the very least make teams very weary of courting him as aggressively.

[tyler735]

13 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Man I like Hendrickson too, sacks are great but turnovers change games. Williams is 3 years younger, plays far more defensive snaps, is more vital to our defensive scheme and has had 13 ints over the last 4 seasons.

 

Hendrickson is good and will hate to lose him but I can't place him as a higher priority than Williams. Williams is a LOT better than what people realize.

A great pass rush changes games. Not letting a guy like Mahomes or Brady get comfortable in dropping back is the recipe to beat them. Turnovers in the secondary are nice too, but I'd argue the pass rush plays a role in those turnovers forcing the QB to throw under pressure or not having a clean pocket. There's a reason top pass rushers cost far more than top safety's. I think Hendrickson is just more a more valuable player with a higher ceiling. Also Hendrickson is less than 2 years older (like a year and 10 months) not 3 years. Hardly enough of a difference to make me think much on it especially since Hendrickson doesn't have much wear and tear on him at this point in his career.

[whodatworm23]

Just now, tyler735 said:

A great pass rush changes games. Not letting a guy like Mahomes or Brady get comfortable in dropping back is the recipe to beat them. Turnovers in the secondary are nice too, but I'd argue the pass rush plays a role in those turnovers forcing the QB to throw under pressure or not having a clean pocket. There's a reason top pass rushers cost far more than top safety's. I think Hendrickson is just more a more valuable player with a higher ceiling. Also Hendrickson is less than 2 years older (like a year and 10 months) not 3 years. Hardly enough of a difference to make me think much on it especially since Hendrickson doesn't have much wear and tear on him at this point in his career.

Great pass rushers do... I'm not willing to call Hendrickson a great pass rusher tho. I think he's a good pass rusher that had a great season, big difference. Thats just how I grade him. You are obviously much higher on him and his potential. I think he could be a consistent 8-10 sack guy in the NFL with an occasional 12-14 sack season. Still very good, but Great pass rushers are.more than just sack numbers. They change the way offenses game plan a defense and I don't see Hendrickson as that kind of dude.

[tyler735]

6 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Another thing the Saints and other teams really have to consider is this... Robert Quinn of the Bears, Mario Addison of the Bills and Dante Fowler Jr. Of the Falcons. All turned 2019 breakout sack seasons into 2020 lucrative free agent deals and each team is really regretting it right now. Would not be shocked if all are released this off-season if the teams have built in outs in the deals.

Hard to say how teams will approach this.

Fowler thrived next to probably the GOAT at DT in Aaron Donald and then was a dud on his new team. Hendrickson didn't have that. Cam Jordan didn't look like his usual self this season, so that obviously wasn't much of a factor for Hendrickson.

Quinn isn't a great example he had several great seasons before having a bad season this past year. Maybe age and wear and tear caught up with him at 30? 

Addison is 33 years old and had 4 or 5 good seasons prior to this year.

I think they all are in much different circumstances. 

I don't view Hendrickson as a 1 year wonder. The signs were there in 2019 where he had 5.5 sacks playing in just 38% of our defensive snaps. Then this past year with increased usage he takes his game to another level and is among the best in the league at sacking/pressuring QB's. To me this is a guy that has a lot of great football ahead of him. 

[tyler735]

8 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Great pass rushers do... I'm not willing to call Hendrickson a great pass rusher tho. I think he's a good pass rusher that had a great season, big difference. Thats just how I grade him. You are obviously much higher on him and his potential.

I fully understand that. He had an elite pass rush season, and I've even stated that doesn’t mean he is elite...Yet. He has the potential to get there, but whether he does is a different story. I don't see how he isn't at the very least a 10+ sack guy the next few seasons if he stays healthy. Obviously his snap count should increase even further next year. Worst case for me is he is a good pass rusher, best case he continues to improve with more experience and gets into that great/elite pass rush range.

With Marcus Williams we know what we have in him, a good Safety that can cover some ground in the secondary, but still leaves a bit to be desired tackling and playing the run. I don't see him ever reaching that great/elite level. 

 

[whodatworm23]

35 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I fully understand that. He had an elite pass rush season, and I've even stated that doesn’t mean he is elite...Yet. He has the potential to get there, but whether he does is a different story. I don't see how he isn't at the very least a 10+ sack guy the next few seasons if he stays healthy. Obviously his snap count should increase even further next year. Worst case for me is he is a good pass rusher, best case he continues to improve with more experience and gets into that great/elite pass rush range.

With Marcus Williams we know what we have in him, a good Safety that can cover some ground in the secondary, but still leaves a bit to be desired tackling and playing the run. I don't see him ever reaching that great/elite level. 

 

Another factor that neither of us know but will weigh heavily in this thought process for the Saints is Hendrickson's neck injury. How serious is it? He clearly was not 100% vs Tampa. Is it something the team would have to monitor long term? Williams on the other hand has avoided any major injuries thus far. Hendrickson missed time in 2019 with another neck issue sustained against the Cowboys and missed most of the 2018 season with another injury. When investing big dollars into players, injury history and availability is a major factor to consider.

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, whodatworm23 said:

Another factor that neither of us know but will weigh heavily in this thought process for the Saints is Hendrickson's neck injury. How serious is it? He clearly was not 100% vs Tampa. Is it something the team would have to monitor long term? Williams on the other hand has avoided any major injuries thus far. Hendrickson missed time in 2019 with another neck issue sustained against the Cowboys and missed most of the 2018 season with another injury. When investing big dollars into players, injury history and availability is a major factor to consider.

Fair enough there. I'd hope he just had a couple stingers as he didn't miss much time either time, but hard to say for sure. If medical is cleared by the team it's still a no brainer for me.