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NBA 2020-21 Season - Game Day Thread (Bring Back The Wolf Pit!)


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Just now, NYRaider said:

The fact the league is so low on a 22 year old who just averaged 24/4/3/1 on 48/37/82 shooting splits is pretty insane. Sexton is not perfect by any means but being traded for the 14th pick? Are you kidding me? And that's the best you can get for him?? I'd definitely take that trade in a heartbeat. 

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Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

The fact the league is so low on a 22 year old who just averaged 24/4/3/1 on 48/37/82 shooting splits is pretty insane. Sexton is not perfect by any means but being traded for the 14th pick? Are you kidding me? And that's the best you can get for him?? I'd definitely take that trade in a heartbeat. 

Again, it all comes down to that impending extension following this season. Whoever trades for him is either going to have to give him a max deal or is basically getting him as a 1 year rental. He has been one of the 5 worst defensive players in the league in each of his 3 seasons and is a tricky piece because he's an undersized two that needs to be paired with a big PG for it to work. We've seen other guys like Julius Randle, Buddy Hield, D'Angelo Russell, and Andrew Wiggins put up similar lines on similar efficiency recently. How valuable would those guys be if you're trading for them knowing that you're also going to have to commit to a 5 yr/$195M contract immediately after acquiring them? 

I like Sexton but his inability to play PG at his size, his terrible defense, and the fact that he wants a max deal all play a huge role in trading for him. I told those guys you can't really expect to get a massive haul for him. The Warriors are offering #14 and the Knicks are offering #19/#21. 

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Would a Collin Sexton trade change anything here for the Cleveland Cavaliers? We’ve got some trade rumors ahead of Sexton’s contract extension negotiations. Until Kevin Love’s deal is off the books (or on someone else’s books), committing big money to Sexton, especially after the way he played last year, might not be the way they want to pack their payroll. If they can grab extra picks in the process, league sources say that’s something the Cavs are interested in doing. Maybe that means Sexton to the Knicks for their picks at No. 19 and No. 21 with some kind of framework happening there?

 

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2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Again, it all comes down to that impending extension following this season. Whoever trades for him is either going to have to give him a max deal or is basically getting him as a 1 year rental. He has been one of the 5 worst defensive players in the league in each of his 3 seasons and is a tricky piece because he's an undersized two that needs to be paired with a big PG for it to work. We've seen other guys like Julius Randle, Buddy Hield, D'Angelo Russell, and Andrew Wiggins put up similar lines on similar efficiency recently. How valuable would those guys be if you're trading for them knowing that you're also going to have to commit to a 5 yr/$195M contract immediately after acquiring them? 

I like Sexton but his inability to play PG at his size, his terrible defense, and the fact that he wants a max deal all play a huge role in trading for him. I told those guys you can't really expect to get a massive haul for him. The Warriors are offering #14 and the Knicks are offering #19/#21. 

 

I'm not worried about his defense. He would be able to defend better with better personnel like Wiggins just did. And at GS, he wouldn't be asked to play make. We need flat out shot makers who can get to the paint and Sexton can do just that. There is big value in these bucket getters in the playoffs as we are seeing and have been seeing. 

For the 14th pick, this is a no-brainier decision for me. 

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Just now, J-ALL-DAY said:

I'm not worried about his defense. He would be able to defend better with better personnel like Wiggins just did. And at GS, he wouldn't be asked to play make. We need flat out shot makers who can get to the paint and Sexton can do just that. There is big value in these bucket getters in the playoffs as we are seeing and have been seeing. 

For the 14th pick, this is a no-brainier decision for me. 

The main difference between Wiggins and Sexton though is that Wiggins is a physical freak with all of the tools to be a lock down defender. Sexton's a 6'1" 190 two guard while Wiggins is 6'8" 200 with plus athleticism and the ability to defend 1-4. 

According to reports teams view Sexton as more of an instant offense off the bench, Lou Williams type of player rather than a franchise player or star. He's also reportedly a head ache in the locker room and feasted against terrible teams while putting up significantly worse numbers against good teams. 

There is value in bucket getters without a doubt. But Sexton/Curry playing big minutes together would have major issues defensively in the playoffs, imo. 

And agreed for the 14th pick it is definitely a no brainer from the Warriors side. The only question I'd have is what are they going to do about that contract extension? Especially if they're keeping Wiggins/Wiseman. Assuming they'd be trading for Sexton under the premise that they're comfortable giving him the max, giving Curry his extension, and keeping the 7th pick as well, the team would be like $45M over the luxury tax line. 

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47 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

The main difference between Wiggins and Sexton though is that Wiggins is a physical freak with all of the tools to be a lock down defender. Sexton's a 6'1" 190 two guard while Wiggins is 6'8" 200 with plus athleticism and the ability to defend 1-4. 

According to reports teams view Sexton as more of an instant offense off the bench, Lou Williams type of player rather than a franchise player or star. He's also reportedly a head ache in the locker room and feasted against terrible teams while putting up significantly worse numbers against good teams. 

There is value in bucket getters without a doubt. But Sexton/Curry playing big minutes together would have major issues defensively in the playoffs, imo. 

And agreed for the 14th pick it is definitely a no brainer from the Warriors side. The only question I'd have is what are they going to do about that contract extension? Especially if they're keeping Wiggins/Wiseman. Assuming they'd be trading for Sexton under the premise that they're comfortable giving him the max, giving Curry his extension, and keeping the 7th pick as well, the team would be like $45M over the luxury tax line. 

They can worry about the extension later. You have to be in win NOW mode for as long as Curry is still great.

I've seen Sexton play solid defense at times and he seems like a better defender when he's not having to fight through screens. He's going to have less pressure offensively with the Warriors, so he can play harder on the defensive end against opposing two guards. He is a strong guy so the lack of height doesn't bother me as much. The Warriors weren't better this season not because of their defense, but because their offense was mediocre as best, and that was with Steph going ape sh^t almost every single game. Plus, the Clippers were able to get away with Jackson playing damn near 40 minutes a game in the playoffs. Was/is he known to be a good defender? No, but put the right personnel and you can figure it out.

Sexton is someone the Lakers should try to get, if possible. Would the Cavs be more intrigued with THT for what he will be getting compared to what Sexton will be getting?

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16 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

They can worry about the extension later. You have to be in win NOW mode for as long as Curry is still great.

I've seen Sexton play solid defense at times and he seems like a better defender when he's not having to fight through screens. He's going to have less pressure offensively with the Warriors, so he can play harder on the defensive end against opposing two guards. He is a strong guy so the lack of height doesn't bother me as much. The Warriors weren't better this season not because of their defense, but because their offense was mediocre as best, and that was with Steph going ape sh^t almost every single game. Plus, the Clippers were able to get away with Jackson playing damn near 40 minutes a game in the playoffs. Was/is he known to be a good defender? No, but put the right personnel and you can figure it out.

Sexton is someone the Lakers should try to get, if possible. Would the Cavs be more intrigued with THT for what he will be getting compared to what Sexton will be getting?

Except teams can't really worry about the extension later, they either have to give him a max deal before the season or he'll enter RFA next summer. Which is the main thing driving down his trade value. Cavs fans tried to tell me that it shouldn't play a factor in his value but it's something you have to take into account when acquiring him. For a team like GS giving up the #14 pick makes sense because even if you don't extend him, a 1 year rental is probably more valuable then whoever you'll land at that pick and a S&T is also a possibility so you don't lose him for nothing. 

Sexton has ranked in the bottom 5 in DBPM in each of his first 3 seasons. And it isn't just his lack of height, he has a frail frame as well, he's 6'1" 190. The reason the Cavaliers reportedly don't want to pay him is because they know a Garland/Sexton backcourt will never work defensively. 

The Clippers playoff run, particularly when Kawhi was playing is somewhat of an outlier. They were the best 3P shooting team in NBA history % wise and while they were playing Reggie they also moved to more of a positionless basketball approach. They had 4 6'8" 220 guys on the floor with him that could all shoot and switch everything defensively with two of them being superstar caliber players in George/Kawhi. And even when they went small they were able to stick with that lineup because Boban, KP, and Rudy weren't able to punish them on the offensive end. 

In the Warriors case they'd have two small below average defenders on the floor in Sexton/Curry and I think it's a huge ask to expect Klay to be able to come back and play elite perimeter defense being in his 30's now and coming off of two major lower leg injuries. 

Having Love's contract on their books, Allen entering RFA, and Garland's extension coming up soon as well puts them in a weird spot. 

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I just find it funny that a few days ago I was being told that Sexton is a more valuable trade commodity than Brad Beal. And as the draft approaches Sexton trade rumors are heating up and the offers are either #14 or #19/#21.

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27 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Except teams can't really worry about the extension later, they either have to give him a max deal before the season or he'll enter RFA next summer. Which is the main thing driving down his trade value. Cavs fans tried to tell me that it shouldn't play a factor in his value but it's something you have to take into account when acquiring him. For a team like GS giving up the #14 pick makes sense because even if you don't extend him, a 1 year rental is probably more valuable then whoever you'll land at that pick and a S&T is also a possibility so you don't lose him for nothing. 

Sexton has ranked in the bottom 5 in DBPM in each of his first 3 seasons. And it isn't just his lack of height, he has a frail frame as well, he's 6'1" 190. The reason the Cavaliers reportedly don't want to pay him is because they know a Garland/Sexton backcourt will never work defensively. 

The Clippers playoff run, particularly when Kawhi was playing is somewhat of an outlier. They were the best 3P shooting team in NBA history % wise and while they were playing Reggie they also moved to more of a positionless basketball approach. They had 4 6'8" 220 guys on the floor with him that could all shoot and switch everything defensively with two of them being superstar caliber players in George/Kawhi. And even when they went small they were able to stick with that lineup because Boban, KP, and Rudy weren't able to punish them on the offensive end. 

In the Warriors case they'd have two small below average defenders on the floor in Sexton/Curry and I think it's a huge ask to expect Klay to be able to come back and play elite perimeter defense being in his 30's now and coming off of two major lower leg injuries. 

Having Love's contract on their books, Allen entering RFA, and Garland's extension coming up soon as well puts them in a weird spot. 

You can worry about it later. Trade for him, see how this all fits and then decide what you want to do. You can even flip him possibly at the deadline if needed. 

The point isn't about the Clippers being an outlier, just that with the right personnel you can overcome subpar defenders. And he doesn't need to be in the closing line up or anything. They will have options, especially if they are able to keep Wiggins. 

The Lakers traded a first for Schroder with him approaching free agency and the Pelicans traded for Ball, albeit with two years left on his deal and he may end up walking. It's okay. 

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13 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

You can worry about it later. Trade for him, see how this all fits and then decide what you want to do. You can even flip him possibly at the deadline if needed. 

The point isn't about the Clippers being an outlier, just that with the right personnel you can overcome subpar defenders. And he doesn't need to be in the closing line up or anything. They will have options, especially if they are able to keep Wiggins. 

The Lakers traded a first for Schroder with him approaching free agency and the Pelicans traded for Ball, albeit with two years left on his deal and he may end up walking. It's okay. 

If you're a team like the Warriors that has a short championship window and only have to give up the 14th pick, then of course that's what you do. But if you're a team giving up a significant amount to acquire him, then that plays a major factor on if you pull the trigger or not. 

The Clippers were definitely an outlier being able to start 4 veteran, 6'8" 220 players that all shot the 3 at over a 40% clip and could switch everything defensively. How many other teams in the league have the personnel to do that? Especially with one of those players being a top 2-3 player and the other being a top 15 player. 

I 1 million percent agree with you that if the Warriors can land Sexton for the 14th pick they should pull the trigger. He's definitely a much better player and will have a much bigger impact than anyone that they're going to land with that pick, even if he's only there for 1 year. But Cavaliers fans insist that he isn't being traded unless they get significant assets in return for him. And the Ball trade isn't really relevant because Ingram was the center piece of that deal and they also landed a bunch of draft picks. 

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This is the package that a Cavaliers fan that writes for Fan Sided said he would want from the Knicks in exchange for Sexton. @J-ALL-DAY

Cavaliers receive: RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox, #19, #21, #32, #58

Knicks receive: Collin Sexton, Kevin Love, Taurean Prince 

They genuinely believe that Sexton is that valuable of a trade commodity. Like there isn't anyway in hell the Knicks are giving up RJ Barrett who is one of their young foundational pieces, Quickley who flashed as a rookie, Toppin who they just drafted in the lottery last year, and 2 1st round picks this year. While ALSO having to take back Kevin Love's massive contract knowing that they have to extend Sexton and Randle. It would literally kill any possible roster flexibility for them over the next couple of years. 

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I'd rather have 3, Sexton and future picks opposed to 14.  We have space to resign him if we want to although he and Green would not be good fits together.  If Sexton goes for pick 14, someone is getting a heck of a deal as long as they know what to expect.  Again my arguments have been Sexton scores and doesn't play D and is right there next to Beal in efficiency and defensive ability so if Beal goes for significantly more, the person who gets Sexton will have a better ROI. 

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2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I'd rather have 3, Sexton and future picks opposed to 14.  We have space to resign him if we want to although he and Green would not be good fits together.  If Sexton goes for pick 14, someone is getting a heck of a deal as long as they know what to expect.  Again my arguments have been Sexton scores and doesn't play D and is right there next to Beal in efficiency and defensive ability so if Beal goes for significantly more, the person who gets Sexton will have a better ROI. 

I think Green goes off the board at #2 and Weaver supposedly loved Wiseman last year so I'm assuming Mobley would be the target at #3. 

Again it all really comes down to context, I don't want to keep going down this road and beat a dead horse. In his first 7 seasons Beal was a -0.5 DBPM player including two positive years and a -0.8 DBPM player while averaging 23 ppg on good efficiency for two playoff teams, one of which almost made the ECF. 

Beal's defense has definitely declined but he has been asked to carry a scoring load that only 5 other guys have ever been able to do in the modern era of basketball with 2 30+ ppg seasons in a row. 

Since Sexton has came into the league he has averaged 20 points/3 assists per game on 46% FG/38% 3FG shooting splits while being a -2.5 DBPM player. Over that same span Beal has averaged 29 points/5 assists per game on 47% FG/35% 3FG while being a -1.6 DBPM player. 

We've already seen what Beal can do when he doesn't have to be the guy on a playoff caliber team, hell didn't they just make the playoffs this season? Not to mention Beal is a true 2 guard with the size to defend opposing 2's, Sexton is short and frail. 

And again if you're going to make the argument "well Beal didn't win either so his stats are empty" then the same logic should've been applied to AD. 

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

This is the package that a Cavaliers fan that writes for Fan Sided said he would want from the Knicks in exchange for Sexton. @J-ALL-DAY

Cavaliers receive: RJ Barrett, Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox, #19, #21, #32, #58

Knicks receive: Collin Sexton, Kevin Love, Taurean Prince 

He's smart.

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14 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

He's smart.

Facts. The Knicks can form the next big 3 with Randle, Sexton, and Love. Plus they'll have great supporting players around them like Frank Ntilikina and Mitchell Robinson, a move like that could be the next dynasty. 

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4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I think Green goes off the board at #2 and Weaver supposedly loved Wiseman last year so I'm assuming Mobley would be the target at #3. 

Again it all really comes down to context, I don't want to keep going down this road and beat a dead horse. In his first 7 seasons Beal was a -0.5 DBPM player including two positive years and a -0.8 DBPM player while averaging 23 ppg on good efficiency for two playoff teams, one of which almost made the ECF. 

Beal's defense has definitely declined but he has been asked to carry a scoring load that only 5 other guys have ever been able to do in the modern era of basketball with 2 30+ ppg seasons in a row. 

Since Sexton has came into the league he has averaged 20 points/3 assists per game on 46% FG/38% 3FG shooting splits while being a -2.5 DBPM player. Over that same span Beal has averaged 29 points/5 assists per game on 47% FG/35% 3FG while being a -1.6 DBPM player. 

We've already seen what Beal can do when he doesn't have to be the guy on a playoff caliber team, hell didn't they just make the playoffs this season? Not to mention Beal is a true 2 guard with the size to defend opposing 2's, Sexton is short and frail. 

And again if you're going to make the argument "well Beal didn't win either so his stats are empty" then the same logic should've been applied to AD. 

I'd assume that Green does go #2 as well.  Which makes me not really interested at all in this.  I get Weaver liked Wiseman, but was all hearsay in talks to move up.  They also wanted Ball supposedly so take it all with a grain of salt.  Edwards could have been the highest on their list and if so, Green would be the smart pick this year.  

If we trade for Sexton, 3 (Mobley), and a future 1st, it would make us significantly better IMO.  Given all of Sexton's issues he has continually improved each year on defense while also improving his scoring load.  I still want the higher ceiling of the bunch in Green or Cade though so it would be less than exciting if this is our move.  

And yes, I know that Beal was better defensively before, but two years of decline is a trend.  Its time to stop judging him on what he did 3 years ago and look at what he has become.  If he lowers the scoring load and picks up his D a little, he would then be putting up similar numbers on both ends to what Sexton has the last two years.  I was really high on Beal for a long time too.  And would have loved to have had him in Detroit, but watching him evolve into his late 20s is not showing up as the kind of guy you build around that many thought he was 3-5 years ago. All I ask is if you judge others for the way they play D now, do it for everyone and not pick and choose the best stats over a 5 year period and expect them to all happen in one season.   I don't think Sexton is a stud.  I don't think he should be paid a max contract.  But I do think he has a lot of value in the right situation just like Beal does, but Beal is more expensive in dollars and in trade capital and I am not sure the difference is enough to get return on your investment. 

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