Resigning Jameis Winston likely easier said than done for Saints:

[whodatworm23]

Resigning Jameis Winston likely easier said than done for Saints:

 

So Sean Payton wants Jameis Winston back in 2021… that’s great, but in what capacity?

 

Of course Payton wants Winston back but what he neglects to mention is exactly how the team views Winston. Payton speaks of how talented Winston is and how impressive he is from a physical standpoint but that isn’t anything most of us didn’t know already. When pressed about whether or not Winston would enter camp as the likely starter, Payton hits the breaks… “he'll have a chance to compete for that job" is typically the answer you get.

 

Fact is that Sean Payton is about as much committed to Jamies Winston as he is Taysom Hill right now. The issue Payton is having is that unlike Hill, Winston is not under contract so he’s finding himself having to cater to Winston’s emotions a little more than Hill's especially after choosing (for whatever reason) to start Hill over Winston during Drew Brees 4 game absence in 2020. Payton has already backtracked and tried to use as much damage control as he could over that issue but when push comes to shove what Sean Payton truly wants is Winston to return and compete for the job and he wants him to do it once again on the cheap.

 

Winston and his representation better be seeing the red flags here…

 

If Winston is in fact resigned with the Saints, he will do so with absolutely zero guarantee to be the starter. He will enter into a competition with a player that is widely viewed as Payton’s coaches pet and someone whom Payton has referred to as the next guy after Brees for 2 years now. Another issue that will not go unnoticed by Winston’s camp is the fact that while the Saints will want their client to take a subpar team friendly deal, he will be entering into a competition with a player set to make 16 million against the cap in 2021. Put yourself in Winston’s agents position, would you be rushing to resign with the Saints or would you wait to see what else is out their on the open market? Maybe Winston isn’t assured a starting job in free agency but he could potentially find a situation where he might have a clearer, more unbiased competition to that starting role as well as at the very least making a significant more money than what the Saints are offering.

 

Winston’s free agency will have almost everything to do with exactly how much he trust Sean Payton. Does Winston truly believe that Payton will give him a true opportunity to win the Saints starting job or is Payton just giving him lip service because he wants Winston on the roster in the event Hill falls flat and he has no real intention of making this a true open competition in camp? It wouldn’t be the first time that Payton is caught just saying what a player wants to hear and there’s nothing wrong with that if it is in fact the case. Payton would be doing whats in the best interest of his football team and telling Winston whatever he has to, to get him signed is fair game whether its bringing Winston back as a starter or a quality backup.

 

Its Winston and his agents job of gathering all the information and making the best possible decision for themselves and their client. Sean Payton is in full politician mode and that should concern Winston and his camp. It would be one thing if the Saints were in a position to offer Winston a fair market contract but the fact that they aren’t is a sign that maybe the Saints view Winston as simply the best option for them on their budget. That isn’t necessarily a ringing endorsement for a potential future franchise quarterback now is it?

 

What if the Steelers meet with Winston and Tomlin commits to him beyond Roethlisberger in 2022 and they offer him a multi year back loaded deal that the Saints cannot match? What if the Bears miss out on Carson Wentz in the trade market to the Colts, you really think Pace and Nagy will entrust their futures into another rookie quarterback, a mid 1^st round one at that? Pace has coveted former Saints players since his arrival in Chicago, if Winston is good enough for Payton then why wouldn’t Pace try to convince Winston to become their starter in 2021 at a much more lucrative deal the Saints could offer. Then there are teams like the Patriots, Colts and the Washington Football Team who could all throw their hat into the ring for Winston’s services. Leave it to Bill Belichick to sign the quarterback Tampa Bay threw away and make it work. Ron Rivera is very familiar with Winston from his time in Carolina and could possibly have beaten Brady and the Bucs in the playoffs of Winston was his quarterback. The Colts like the Bears are in pursuit of Carson Wentz at the moment and both could view Winston as plan B via free agency if they fail to land the trade for the Eagles quarterback.

 

There’s a reason Sean Payton recently commented that he’d like to see Winston resigned “sooner rather than later". I doubt that this years free agency will be similar to Winston’s last time around. Things are a lot different now. Teams realize that Winston has gotten in better shape, they know he’s matured, they are aware of his eye surgery and the fact that he spent a year learning under Drew Brees. Most of all teams are more desperate this year after Tom Brady won a superbowl in his first year with a new team. It wouldn’t be the first time a team tried to strike lightning in a bottle, they know they don’t have to break the bank for Jamies Winston… they just have to be willing to pay more than the Saints are able too.

 

 

 

WHODAT

[tyler735]

 

[whodatworm23]

50 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

 

Personally... 10 for me, I just think the kid is an absolute perfect fit in this offense. I think he's smart, accurate and poise. Will he ever be the best quarterback in the NFL no but can he be the Saints franchise quarterback for the next 15 years and win a superbowl, absolutely. 

 

The issue is that I understand Jones isn't a guy to carry you to a championship... he's the guy to lead you to one. Meaning you can't give up the farm for Jones, you have to be able to build around him. If he were to fall into an area of the draft that wouldn't cost a future 1st to move up and get him im all for it. Best case scenario is he falls to 28 but I doubt it.

[tyler735]

36 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Personally... 10 for me, I just think the kid is an absolute perfect fit in this offense. I think he's smart, accurate and poise. Will he ever be the best quarterback in the NFL no but can he be the Saints franchise quarterback for the next 15 years and win a superbowl, absolutely. 

Agreed, this is why I'm willing to sacrifice some high draft picks for him. I think he can both step in and make an impact short term and help us continue to be competitive with this roster and also be the guy long term for 15 years. If the team feels that way as well, a couple high draft picks is nothing in the long run. Especially on a team that is already so fully loaded, even if we were to lose a few guys. As you said, he probably won't be the "top QB" ever, but if his accuracy, anticipation, and football intelligence translate to the NFL how I think they can in our system, I certainly think he has the ceiling to be a top 5 QB.

36 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

The issue is that I understand Jones isn't a guy to carry you to a championship... he's the guy to lead you to one. Meaning you can't give up the farm for Jones, you have to be able to build around him. If he were to fall into an area of the draft that wouldn't cost a future 1st to move up and get him im all for it. Best case scenario is he falls to 28 but I doubt it.

The odds of getting that QB is so rare though. At any given time, there's maybe 2-3 in the league that I'd define as that. I think Mac Jones may be more of a Phillip Rivers/Ben Roethlisberger caliber QB (not playstyle, but how they stack up among peers) than Aaron Rodgers/Patrick Mahomes caliber, but I think even with that, you can definitely have some success in this league.

[whodatworm23]

40 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Agreed, this is why I'm willing to sacrifice some high draft picks for him. I think he can both step in and make an impact short term and help us continue to be competitive with this roster and also be the guy long term for 15 years. If the team feels that way as well, a couple high draft picks is nothing in the long run. Especially on a team that is already so fully loaded, even if we were to lose a few guys. As you said, he probably won't be the "top QB" ever, but if his accuracy, anticipation, and football intelligence translate to the NFL how I think they can in our system, I certainly think he has the ceiling to be a top 5 QB.

The odds of getting that QB is so rare though. At any given time, there's maybe 2-3 in the league that I'd define as that. I think Mac Jones may be more of a Phillip Rivers/Ben Roethlisberger caliber QB (not playstyle, but how they stack up among peers) than Aaron Rodgers/Patrick Mahomes caliber, but I think even with that, you can definitely have some success in this league.

The guy I see Jones ceiling as is Drew Brees... good but not great arm, uncanny accuracy and anticipation, great touch, smart with the ability to process quickly and a underrated athlete inside the pocket.

 

I see a lot of traits and similarities to Brees coming out of Purdue in Jones but remember Brees was the 1st pick in round 2. That does not mean that is where Jones has to be drafted, its just how this league views guys like Jones coming out. Hindsight is always 20/20 and with the league valuing athleticism at the quarterback position more and more these days, Jones might slip a little more. 

 

We need to see how this quarterback market shakes out first... I think there is still a ton of movement left to happen. I do feel though that even if Winston is back, he's nothing more than a bridge to the next guy and a way for this franchise to buy time after sitting on their hands the last few drafts. I don't buy for one bit that he's the next franchise quarterback of the Saints.

 

Payton can say all he wants, his job is to develop players and win ball games. Jeff Irelands job is to scout the college eligible prospects and develop the board with the scouts but Loomis is the guy in charge of securing the long-term outlook of the franchise and that hasn't been a issue while Brees has been the quarterback but those days are gone and I doubt Loomis will puts all his eggs into the Jameis Winston basket. Contrary to what people think, its Loomis that swings the biggest stick in the Saints organization not Payton and if he feels the Saints need more of a long-term answer at the quarterback position and there is one there that his scouting staff really likes as well as his head coach, then Loomis will make that call on draft day... not Payton.

[tyler735]

49 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

The guy I see Jones ceiling as is Drew Brees... good but not great arm, uncanny accuracy and anticipation, great touch, smart with the ability to process quickly and a underrated athlete inside the pocket.

 

I see a lot of traits and similarities to Brees coming out of Purdue in Jones but remember Brees was the 1st pick in round 2. That does not mean that is where Jones has to be drafted, its just how this league views guys like Jones coming out. Hindsight is always 20/20 and with the league valuing athleticism at the quarterback position more and more these days, Jones might slip a little more. 

I've made that comparison as well for Jones in terms of playstyle, which is partly why I think Payton and the front office are going to go all out to get him in the draft. Jones right now is as polarizing a prospect as there is in this draft. Some mock drafts have him top 5, some top 10, and some late 1st. I think when push comes to shove he goes in that 8-15 range.

Brees was drafted 2nd round, but a significant reason for that was because of his height from what I recall. It has only been in recent years that NFL teams have started to be willing to take more risks on "shorter" QB's. Guy's like Brees and Wilson have played a large role in changing that stereotype. Guy's like Mayfield and Kyler can thank Brees for where they got picked.

 

49 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

We need to see how this quarterback market shakes out first... I think there is still a ton of movement left to happen. I do feel though that even if Winston is back, he's nothing more than a bridge to the next guy and a way for this franchise to buy time after sitting on their hands the last few drafts. I don't buy for one bit that he's the next franchise quarterback of the Saints.

I think Winston gets a shot to start the year, but my guess is his replacement may get drafted in Mac Jones. I think best case scenario for Winston, he lights it up and we have a San Diego Brees/Rivers situation where we have 2 viable options and can make a choice from there and maybe get some compensation. Worst case with Winston, he flounders early on and we just go to our rookie QB.

49 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

Payton can say all he wants, his job is to develop players and win ball games. Jeff Irelands job is to scout the college eligible prospects and develop the board with the scouts but Loomis is the guy in charge of securing the long-term outlook of the franchise and that hasn't been a issue while Brees has been the quarterback but those days are gone and I doubt Loomis will puts all his eggs into the Jameis Winston basket. Contrary to what people think, its Loomis that swings the biggest stick in the Saints organization not Payton and if he feels the Saints need more of a long-term answer at the quarterback position and there is one there that his scouting staff really likes as well as his head coach, then Loomis will make that call on draft day... not Payton.

Regardless, I'd be shocked if Payton wants to put all his eggs in the Winston basket. If there's a QB similar to Brees in the draft, I have a feeling Payton will have his eyes on him as well. As will the rest of the front office.

[whodatworm23]

7 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

I've made that comparison as well for Jones in terms of playstyle, which is partly why I think Payton and the front office are going to go all out to get him in the draft. Jones right now is as polarizing a prospect as there is in this draft. Some mock drafts have him top 5, some top 10, and some late 1st. I think when push comes to shove he goes in that 8-15 range.

Brees was drafted 2nd round, but a significant reason for that was because of his height from what I recall. It has only been in recent years that NFL teams have started to be willing to take more risks on "shorter" QB's. Guy's like Brees and Wilson have played a large role in changing that stereotype. Guy's like Mayfield and Kyler can thank Brees for where they got picked.

 

I think Winston gets a shot to start the year, but my guess is his replacement may get drafted in Mac Jones. I think best case scenario for Winston, he lights it up and we have a San Diego Brees/Rivers situation where we have 2 viable options and can make a choice from there and maybe get some compensation. Worst case with Winston, he flounders early on and we just go to our rookie QB.

Regardless, I'd be shocked if Payton wants to put all his eggs in the Winston basket. If there's a QB similar to Brees in the draft, I have a feeling Payton will have his eyes on him as well. As will the rest of the front office.

The Saints staff always seem to fall in love with a particular prospect during senior bowl week... Jones shined that week and showcased his leadership ability. I don't know how anyone in our front office cannot evaluate Jones and not compare him to a young Drew Brees. I will be shocked if this organization does not at least attempt to try and make a deal to acquire him.

[tyler735]

8 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

The Saints staff always seem to fall in love with a particular prospect during senior bowl week... Jones shined that week and showcased his leadership ability. I don't know how anyone in our front office cannot evaluate Jones and not compare him to a young Drew Brees. I will be shocked if this organization does not at least attempt to try and make a deal to acquire him.

Yep agreed I'll be very surprised if they don't make an attempt given their track record at the Senior Bowl, our need for a QB, and having a guy with similar traits to our franchises most important player. 

I believe we have met with the following people at the Senior Bowl in recent years:

Erik McCoy

Marcus Davenport

Sheldon Rankins

Stephone Anthony

Hau'oli Kikaha

Garrett Grayson

Alex Anzalone

Tre'Quan Smith

Carl Granderson

Zack Baun

Adam Trautman 

That is a significant amount of players and quite a few high draft picks. Given that the reports are they had an excellent meeting with Jones, I think there's a good chance Jones is our 1st round target.

[whodatworm23]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

Yep agreed I'll be very surprised if they don't make an attempt given their track record at the Senior Bowl, our need for a QB, and having a guy with similar traits to our franchises most important player. 

I believe we have met with the following people at the Senior Bowl in recent years:

Erik McCoy

Marcus Davenport

Sheldon Rankins

Stephone Anthony

Hau'oli Kikaha

Garrett Grayson

Alex Anzalone

Tre'Quan Smith

Carl Granderson

Zack Baun

Adam Trautman 

That is a significant amount of players and quite a few high draft picks. Given that the reports are they had an excellent meeting with Jones, I think there's a good chance Jones is our 1st round target.

Cameron Jordan was also a Senior bowl standout which is where the Saints really zeroed in on him.