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Wentz traded to the Colts for 2021 3rd Rounder and conditional 2022 2nd Rounder


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4 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

I don't hate the Colts, I'm just realistic about how good Wentz is. The Bills have a much better offense outside of the OL, and their D isn't far behind the Colts, if it's behind at all.
Who is Wentz going to throw the ball to? Michael Pittman? Woopty do. The Colts offense is going to be average,

This might be the Ravens fan in me but average offence with a top level Defense tends to round out to quite a good team. 

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5 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

This might be the Ravens fan in me but average offence with a top level Defense tends to round out to quite a good team. 

They don't have a top level defense. They have a good defense, but it's not on the level of Baltimores SB teams. The Bills and Chiefs also have good defenses to go with much better offenses than the Colts. The colts are a worse version of the Ravens. They are basically the Browns, but with a sketchier Baker Mayfield in Wentz.

Edited by Jeezla
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1 minute ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

This might be the Ravens fan in me but an average passing offence with a top level running game & top level Defense tends to round out to quite a good team. 

I think that's a more accurate statement.   Obviously everyone would love to have the complete O, but as long as your passing attack is serviceable, and your run game / D are elite, that formula works.  If your D isn't that good, or your run game isn't, then you need the higher level O.

We just have been discussing this in the DEN forum with all the talk with Watson.   Because DEN 2015 won the SB with the 25th ranked O by D and 1st D (that was generational level elite), I don't think ppl realize how rare that scenario is nowadays.    Having a complete team makes it easier - but more & more, you need a top 10 O to get deep into the playoffs.

By DVOA, since DEN threaded the needle in 2015, here are the final 4 qualifiers (taken from the discussion on why getting Watson matters so much for DEN):

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2016 - NE #2 O, #16 D - beats ATL #1 O, #19 D  (AFCG/NFCG finalists - PIT #3 O, #9 D; GB - #4 O, #21 D)

2017 - PHI #7 O, #5 D - beats NE #1 O, #31 D (AFCG / NFCG finalists -  JAX #15 O, #2 D; MIN #5 O, #1 D)

2018 - NE #5 O, #19 D - beats LAR #2 O, #16 D (AFCG / NFCG finalists -  KC #1 O, #27 D; NO #4 O, #8 D )

2019 - KC #3 O, #14 D - beats SF #7 O #2 D (AFCG/ NFCG finalists - TEN #6 O, #18 D; GB #8 O, #15 D)

2020 - TAM #3 O, #5 D - beats KC #2 O, #22 D  (AFC/NFCG finalists - BUF #5 O, #12 D, GB #1 O, #17 D)

What we're seeing - top 10 O's make up literally 19 of the 20 final 4 teams the last 5 years.  The DEN 2015 formula is just so rare nowadays.  And we see by the teams - the only teams that repeat have great QB's (that PIT team made it to final 4 4x with Big Ben, winning 2x, and NO has been there 2x with Brees).   The 5 one-and-done teams - TB with Brady for 1 year, 1 team with a long-term QB (ATL & Ryan), 1 with a QB who's just entered top 10 the last 2 years (Tannehill), and 2 with journeymen (MIN/JAX with Keenum / Bortles).   The outliers that haven't sniffed sustained playoff success after their single deep playoff run - ATL (whose team got old in a hurry), and the teams that had journeymen (MIN - Keenum, JAX - Bortles).

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The take home message - Since 2016, 19 of 20 teams who made it to the final 4 had top 10 O's.  And getting a QB who can elevate the O makes it easier to return.  Wentz has that ceiling - with a bust floor.  But he has the ceiling.   And the league is definitely becoming more O-driven (having a great D is another path, but terrible O - great D isn't nearly as easy to go deep into the playoffs, or get to the SB, as it used to be).   So if Indy wants to go far, Wentz playing well enough that the overall O is top 10 (run game can be better than the pass game, but Wentz can't bring the team down).

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32 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

I'm not a big believer in Wentz but this is admittedly decent value for the Colts

I'm more bullish on him out of Philly at least. I personally think that there was no hope for him there. Even if he does well in Indy, I don't think that would have happened in Philly, so it was still the right move (even though if that happens people will talk about what a mistake Philly made).  They just would have wasted time and money in my opinion. It was better for everyone

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31 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm more bullish on him out of Philly at least. I personally think that there was no hope for him there. Even if he does well in Indy, I don't think that would have happened in Philly, so it was still the right move (even though if that happens people will talk about what a mistake Philly made).  They just would have wasted time and money in my opinion. It was better for everyone

Plus I’m not sure Wentz always knew what to do.   
 

Since that’s the main requirement in Sirianni’s new system, seems like a bad fit.  
 

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Plus I’m not sure Wentz always knew what to do.   
 

Since that’s the main requirement in Sirianni’s new system, seems like a bad fit.  
 

 

 

 

 

You're describing Jared Goff, not Carson Wentz. Wentz knew that offense inside and out. His problem in 2020 was, Doug is an idiot playcaller so Wentz felt the need to audible out way to much. Which typically isn't an issue for most QB'S unless you're doing it every other play because well, your HC is an idiot.

Won't be the case with Reich.

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1 minute ago, Nabbs4u said:

You're describing Jared Goff, not Carson Wentz. Wentz knew that offense inside and out. His problem in 2020 was, Doug is an idiot playcaller so Wentz felt the need to audible out way to much. Which typically isn't an issue for most QB'S unless you're doing it every other play because well, your HC is an idiot.

Won't be the case with Reich.

It was a joke - knowing what to do & Siranni.....lol.

Edited by Broncofan
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26 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Side note....

 

Guess we know who one of the "anonymous sources" about Wentz dividing the locker room were.  Johnson's not some fringe locker room guy, safe to say.

Not exactly a good sign if the dudes blocking for you seemingly hated your guts 

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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Side note....

 

Guess we know who one of the "anonymous sources" about Wentz dividing the locker room were.  Johnson's not some fringe locker room guy, safe to say.

Well he said this after the trade yesterday. I think he’s just reassuring Eagles fans. Also Eagles fans are killing him in the comments section.

Edited by Blackstar12
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12 minutes ago, Blackstar12 said:

Well he said this after the trade yesterday. I think he’s just reassuring Eagles fans. Also Eagles fans are killing him in the comments section.

It may be emotions as well guy played injured the whole year practically to protect Wentz. Maybe he feels he quit on him .

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24 minutes ago, Blackstar12 said:

Well he said this after the trade yesterday. I think he’s just reassuring Eagles fans. Also Eagles fans are killing him in the comments section.

He could also think it's good for Wentz...and still think the Eagles are better off without him, too.    Could be it's just a public PR "Relax" tweet, probably a little too jubilant of a tweet, if that's what he simply meant.  It's pretty easy to see why ppl infer the alternative explanation.

Re: Philly fans on Twitter - they're so fickle.  They spend at least half a season eviscerating Wentz - then go nuts when Roseman gets what's likely full value for his present level of play.   SMH.

Edited by Broncofan
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