Grading the Roster - EDGE

[pwny]

How good is our group of EDGE rushers right now?

• Josh Allen
• K'Lavon Chaisson
• Lerentee McCray
• Aaron Patrick

Are there any of these players that should be let go or traded?

Are there any pending Free Agents at the position that you would like to see come back?

• Dawuane Smoot - UFA
• Adam Gotsis - UFA

Is there another players that I missed that you would consider an EDGE?

Other questions to consider answering:

Who would you make the starter(s)? Who is the best back up? If a starter went out for any real amount of time, would the backup be able to perform well enough to keep the team on track? Do you expect growth, decline, or similar play out of the players at this position?

 

Previous threads in this series:

Quarterbacks

 

And a special mention of @Uncle Buck for hopping on this thread idea a day before I was ready to roll it out. lol

[Uncle Buck]

1 minute ago, pwny said:

How good is our group of EDGE rushers right now?

• Josh Allen
• K'Lavon Chaisson
• Lerentee McCray
• Aaron Patrick

Are there any of these players that should be let go or traded?

Are there any pending Free Agents at the position that you would like to see come back?

• Dawuane Smoot - UFA
• Adam Gotsis - UFA

Is there another players that I missed that you would consider an EDGE?

Other questions to consider answering:

Who would you make the starter(s)? Who is the best back up? If a starter went out for any real amount of time, would the backup be able to perform well enough to keep the team on track? Do you expect growth, decline, or similar play out of the players at this position?

 

Previous threads in this series:

Quarterbacks

 

And a special mention of @Uncle Buck for hopping on this thread idea a day before I was ready to roll it out. lol

Hahaha.  Sorry bud.  I guess it was just a case where great minds think alike. 

[Uncle Buck]

I'm still going through all the 2020 games, so I don't have a very educated opinion on the edge rushers.  So far, my thought is that I'd kind of like to see us stick with Allen and Chaisson for 2021 and add one or even two good defensive tackles who are capable of collapsing the pocket on opposing quarterbacks.  We just gave up a first round pick for Chaisson last year and Allen seems to have some promise.  Adding some dynamic interior pass rushers could go a long way toward helping the edge rushers develop.

[Charles]

I answered yes & D.

Not sure about who we got and how they'll  fit in with a new scheme.   Truth is the pass rush sucked last season and I'm not sure what the problem is.  Is it scheme,  is it personnel...I don't know.   

Hopefully,  a much improved offense benefits our d....but I really don't know.

-charles 

[.Buzz]

I said yes and C.

Not sure starter is exactly it, but a legit 3rd edge to continually rotate like a Judon would be a great add. 

Went with C because I feel like it's impossible to know currently. Allen was out most of last year/hurt when he did play. Chaisson was playing out of position and showed flashes but was also playing a position that takes time to get going. We definitely need more, but they also could end up being long term fixtures next year. Who knows.

[Tugboat]

I'll give the EDGE rusher group here a D.  Which means yes, we should be looking to add another starting caliber piece to the pass rush there, be it via the draft/free agency/trade.

 

I still really like Josh Allen, and the move to a 3-4 could end up helping him.  But the reality is, he hasn't shown the ability to be "The Guy" and still generate results.  Where he's been successful, is as a rotational piece supporting real headliners.  We need at least one headlining piece to get Allen back into that sort of situation.

Chaisson is...ehhh, there's obviously still plenty of potential and upside there.  As with Allen, i think the move to a 3-4 could be particularly helpful for him, and a more natural fit than hand in the ground stuff.  But he really hasn't shown a lot in the way of results.  Some promising signs of progress in the right direction, yes...but that's a far cry from "solid starting caliber edge rusher".  He's the guy you ideally want in that 3 spot on the depth chart, developing and growing and pitching in as a rotational piece with upside to potentially become a starter down the line.

 

Grading the edge pass rushers has to be harsh, and to a high standard.  Even being "okayish" isn't good enough with a position group that is absolutely critical to the single most important element of an NFL defense.  Especially if/when the other component of pass rush on the interior is beyond embarrassingly inadequate.  And our edge group as stands, hasn't demonstrated clear evidence to suggest that they're going even be "okayish" this year.

 

There's lots of youth and potential in Allen/Chaisson for sure, and that keeps the grade out of the absolute "F" territory.  Along with some vaguely serviceable depth guys if they're pushed properly down the chart by better players.  But that's about all you can really say about the group in a particularly positive light when grading them.  So it's a D from me.  Maybe a D+/C- if i'm feeling particularly optimistic about the scheme change impact.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Tugboat

[Uncle Buck]

I just watched last season's game against Detroit and paid particular attention to the defensive line and pass rushers.  The thing that became very clear was that, although we didn't have too many huge mistakes made, the pass rush was non-existent 99% of the time.  Allen wasn't playing, and another thing that I noticed is that Chaisson looks quite small.  He needs to add weight or he is going to continue to get pushed around out there. 

Verdict:  With regards to the defense, we need edge rushers AND interior players who can rush the passer.  Right now, we don't have anyone at all who gets the job done very often at all.  Take the best player available when it's time to make our picks, because if there is a good player available who presents a great value at that spot in the draft, we can probably use him.

Pass rush grade for this game was a D-.  The pass rush was not there at all, and you could tell that Stafford felt very comfortable all day.  This is a guy that the Vikings sacked NINE times in a game a couple years ago too, so it's not like the Lions have an elite offensive line.  We need to be A LOT better than we are.  In the poll, I voted that we didn't need to add a pass rusher, but I would have to amend that now to say "yes".

Edited February 19, 2021 by Uncle Buck

[JaguarCrazy2832]

The need for help is there for sure but to say we need a starter is tough bc Klaw is very unknown so i dont want to just say we need a starter bc he could be that. Grade it at a C- for now but the potential is there 

[LinderFournette]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:29 AM, Uncle Buck said:

I just watched last season's game against Detroit and paid particular attention to the defensive line and pass rushers.  The thing that became very clear was that, although we didn't have too many huge mistakes made, the pass rush was non-existent 99% of the time.  Allen wasn't playing, and another thing that I noticed is that Chaisson looks quite small.  He needs to add weight or he is going to continue to get pushed around out there. 

Verdict:  With regards to the defense, we need edge rushers AND interior players who can rush the passer.  Right now, we don't have anyone at all who gets the job done very often at all.  Take the best player available when it's time to make our picks, because if there is a good player available who presents a great value at that spot in the draft, we can probably use him.

Pass rush grade for this game was a D-.  The pass rush was not there at all, and you could tell that Stafford felt very comfortable all day.  This is a guy that the Vikings sacked NINE times in a game a couple years ago too, so it's not like the Lions have an elite offensive line.  We need to be A LOT better than we are.  In the poll, I voted that we didn't need to add a pass rusher, but I would have to amend that now to say "yes".

Bolded is why the 3-4 move should help him thrive but he should be getting a lil bigger/stronger with a full off-season work on it. 

U can't really expect a 4-3 end to be 250 pounds and not be pushed around some.  Watch some late season tape and u notice his improvement and it shouldnt have to be stated but he was considered a guy who should be used in a rotation as he quite raw as a pass rusher. 

 

The entire line was abysmal and not a singular guy who needed to be doubled in pass rush.  Didn't help things with allen and his injuries.

 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

I feel like I cant say we need another edge starter since technically we have 2 guys that will need to get their shot but if we drafted another edge early I wouldnt hate it either because you want pressure and lots of it. If you have 2 DEs and an OLB that can all bring the heat I'd love it

[LinderFournette]

1 hour ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I feel like I cant say we need another edge starter since technically we have 2 guys that will need to get their shot but if we drafted another edge early I wouldnt hate it either because you want pressure and lots of it. If you have 2 DEs and an OLB that can all bring the heat I'd love it

I think we can use 2 more edges.  1 can be that high upside swing and 1 can be that guy u can count on in rotation

[Uncle Buck]

Here's some news that's good to hear about Chaisson.

 

[Tugboat]

On 2/20/2021 at 8:23 AM, LinderFournette said:

Bolded is why the 3-4 move should help him thrive but he should be getting a lil bigger/stronger with a full off-season work on it. 

U can't really expect a 4-3 end to be 250 pounds and not be pushed around some.  Watch some late season tape and u notice his improvement and it shouldnt have to be stated but he was considered a guy who should be used in a rotation as he quite raw as a pass rusher. 

 

The entire line was abysmal and not a singular guy who needed to be doubled in pass rush.  Didn't help things with allen and his injuries.

 

I think the bolded is really the biggest issue here.  We've got some guys with upside...and maybe one of Allen/Chiasson does eventually blossom into that guy...but as it stands right now, we really don't have anyone off the edge, or on the interior that really commands any particular attention.  There's no real focal point or concern for opposing offenses to particularly worry about.  That can have a real "cascade effect", where having nobody to really draw attention means everyone has it a little bit harder up.  Either having one of our guys step up and become that guy (and the two edges are the most believable candidates), or adding someone who can be "The Guy" along the line bumping everyone else down a rung...could have a trickle-down effect that makes everyone a lot better, and a lot more of a pass rushing threat.

ie. With the right singular addition (or development from within), the pass rush could very conceivably go from "terrible" to "very very good", just like that.  Just by having that attention draw away, and having everyone slotted in more within their bounds on the depth chart.

[LinderFournette]

5 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I think the bolded is really the biggest issue here.  We've got some guys with upside...and maybe one of Allen/Chiasson does eventually blossom into that guy...but as it stands right now, we really don't have anyone off the edge, or on the interior that really commands any particular attention.  There's no real focal point or concern for opposing offenses to particularly worry about.  That can have a real "cascade effect", where having nobody to really draw attention means everyone has it a little bit harder up.  Either having one of our guys step up and become that guy (and the two edges are the most believable candidates), or adding someone who can be "The Guy" along the line bumping everyone else down a rung...could have a trickle-down effect that makes everyone a lot better, and a lot more of a pass rushing threat.

ie. With the right singular addition (or development from within), the pass rush could very conceivably go from "terrible" to "very very good", just like that.  Just by having that attention draw away, and having everyone slotted in more within their bounds on the depth chart.

If we got leo Williams I think problem shouldnt  be as big.