Hindsight -- Draft 2020

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, cannondale said:

Everyone is offended and keeps talking about the offense. Maybe another 4 or 5 years of losing by giving up 30+ in the playoffs will change minds. If Dillon and Deguara work out and you lose 37-31 AGAIN, that's not success. Gadget running backs, gadget wide receivers are all the rage with fans. I'm in the minority. Who knows how the defense would have looked with Wilkins and Queen, but I would have liked to find out. You build a team from the inside out and defenses win Championships

K.  I'm not disagreeing with the premise of your post about defense versus "gadget offensive players".

But....Wilkins and Queen.  You saying Wilkins over Gary?  Man, I don't know.  I wasn't on board with the Gary selection, but is looking pretty good.  I haven't seen Wilkens play, but stats say 3.5 sacks in 2 years.  I know we need and needed DL help at the time, but I'm not sure that Wilkens can impact a game like Gary did down the stretch, and Gary has a lot of yet untapped potential.  And I say that as a big fan of Wilkens when he was coming out.  While not being a Gary fan.

And Queen?  Just by chance I was able to watch more than a few Ravens games this past year.  I'll just say it.  He was terrible.  I saw him whiff on backs in the hole.  I saw him flat out refuse to try to tackle some guys and he was clowned in coverage.  At the time that we took Love, Queen was the guy I thought we would take, should take.  From what I saw last year, I was dead wrong about that.  I'm not sure that Queen is even on the Barnes level right now.

[cannondale]

27 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

K.  I'm not disagreeing with the premise of your post about defense versus "gadget offensive players".

But....Wilkins and Queen.  You saying Wilkins over Gary?  Man, I don't know.  I wasn't on board with the Gary selection, but is looking pretty good.  I haven't seen Wilkens play, but stats say 3.5 sacks in 2 years.  I know we need and needed DL help at the time, but I'm not sure that Wilkens can impact a game like Gary did down the stretch, and Gary has a lot of yet untapped potential.  And I say that as a big fan of Wilkens when he was coming out.  While not being a Gary fan.

And Queen?  Just by chance I was able to watch more than a few Ravens games this past year.  I'll just say it.  He was terrible.  I saw him whiff on backs in the hole.  I saw him flat out refuse to try to tackle some guys and he was clowned in coverage.  At the time that we took Love, Queen was the guy I thought we would take, should take.  From what I saw last year, I was dead wrong about that.  I'm not sure that Queen is even on the Barnes level right now.

Well nothing is set in stone. No one knows how any player would have fit. No one knows if a player would have done better or worse. I wasn't a fan of the Gary pick, but it was mostly due to the fact that we had just signed Smith x2 and Gary was another futures pick, leaving the DL to suffer after the most talented DL draft in decades. I didn't watch Queen much but 106/3/1 as a rookie doesn't seem horrible. While I hate naming players, my point was DL to partner with Clark, and a LB behind them, MAYBE now you're cooking with gas. Instead, the Packers chose to do....nothing. Last year was maybe an unexpected window, but it opened and closed while the Packers were drafting future guys. What could have been if they weren't so worried about 2025 we'll never know.  But if you don't fix the defense, how can you expect anything more than what has happened the last decade ? That whole - definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over - sure seems to apply here

Edited February 24, 2021 by cannondale

[deathstar]

This is competing for the biggest troll job on the board.

[cannondale]

5 minutes ago, deathstar said:

This is competing for the biggest troll job on the board.

I guess you should report me

[Brat&Beer]

PFF rated Patrick Queen 89th out of 90 qualifying LB's. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-5-disappointing-rookies-from-2020-jeff-okudah-andrew-thomas-patrick-queen-isaiah-wilson-henry-ruggs. Biggest reason being 22 missed tackles. Queen might develop into a good player, but he would not have made the Packer defense better last year. I wonder if he would have remained in the starting lineup.  

[vegas492]

45 minutes ago, cannondale said:

Well nothing is set in stone. No one knows how any player would have fit. No one knows if a player would have done better or worse. I wasn't a fan of the Gary pick, but it was mostly due to the fact that we had just signed Smith x2 and Gary was another futures pick, leaving the DL to suffer after the most talented DL draft in decades. I didn't watch Queen much but 106/3/1 as a rookie doesn't seem horrible. While I hate naming players, my point was DL to partner with Clark, and a LB behind them, MAYBE now you're cooking with gas. Instead, the Packers chose to do....nothing. Last year was maybe an unexpected window, but it opened and closed while the Packers were drafting future guys. What could have been if they weren't so worried about 2025 we'll never know.  But if you don't fix the defense, how can you expect anything more than what has happened the last decade ? That whole - definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over - sure seems to apply here

I feel for yah.  I do.  You see last year as a failure.  Guess I view it as a huge success.

And while I wasn't happy with the draft last year, I admitted early on that Gute and MLF appeared to get guys that they wanted.  And I put my trust in them.

I think we were a horrible defensive call and maybe 2 Aaron Rodgers red zone throws away from winning that game.  Maybe even one red zone throw.

All in year two of a new head coach and a new scheme.

I'm pretty happy to have Dillon there seeing as how the cap went down and Jones/Williams are free agents.

I thought Deguara showed himself pretty good before he got injured.

I'm still torn on the Love pick, but if QB is your best rated player on the board, you take him.  

I get your angst concerning the "insanity" of the franchise.  Guess I don't buy into it, though.  We signed Amos, P and Z to bolster that defense.  While drafting Savage and Gary.  It isn't like we haven't invested in the defense.  We have.

ILB....meh.  Blake Martinez put up stats here, too, in a less friendly ILB defense than the Ravens run.  See if you can pull up some Ravens games and watch Queen.  Tell me if my assessment is correct, or if I'm full of it.  Again, I didn't watch all their games, but I did catch 4-5 when they were on TV.  And Queen did not look good.  Liability in coverage, fraid to stick his nose in there at times, and many times he would flat out misread a play or whiff.  It kind of popped on the screen to me.   For what Barnes did this year as an UDFA, I'll take that over Queen as a first round pick.

But here we are defining success.   We have 28 wins against 8 losses in the last two years.  

Here is to hoping that this is the year we get over the NFCCG hump.

[cannondale]

5 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

 

I think we were a horrible defensive call and maybe 2 Aaron Rodgers red zone throws away from winning that game.  Maybe even one red zone throw.

I guess there's my biggest disconnect with most fans on this subject. The defense gives up 30+ again and it's on Rodgers.

[Dubz41]

28 minutes ago, cannondale said:

I guess there's my biggest disconnect with most fans on this subject. The defense gives up 30+ again and it's on Rodgers.

You're just stuck on the 30+ number out of context.  That included a blown defensive call that should have never happened AND Jones fumble that resulted in a 7 yard TD drive.  When you turn the ball over inside your own 10 you shouldn't blame the defense?

We could've won this year with literally a couple breaks.  Heart breaking, but the defense actually played decent.

[cannondale]

1 minute ago, Dubz41 said:

You're just stuck on the 30+ number out of context.  That included a blown defensive call that should have never happened AND Jones fumble that resulted in a 7 yard TD drive.  When you turn the ball over inside your own 10 you shouldn't blame the defense?

We could've won this year with literally a couple breaks.  Heart breaking, but the defense actually played decent.

Fair enough. One could also say Brady played like sh*t. 

[dwaye50327]

36 minutes ago, cannondale said:

I guess there's my biggest disconnect with most fans on this subject. The defense gives up 30+ again and it's on Rodgers.

Well the defense did give the ball to Rodgers on 2 INTs in the 4th quarter, but Rodgers and the offense along with Lafluer forgot how to football. Essentially I would think that's what anyone wants right, the ball in Rodgers hands with a chance to win the game, he got that twice and couldn't get it done. I don't blame anyone individually for that loss, it was a total team loss.

Edited February 24, 2021 by dwaye50327

[Dubz41]

Just now, dwaye50327 said:

Well the defense did give the ball to Rodgers on 2 INTs in the 4th quarter, but Rodgers and the offense along with Lafluer forgot how to football.

Again, a little bit of context would enlighten.  Two INT 80 yards away from the end zone.  One of them might have been considered a punt.

[cannondale]

2 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

Well the defense did give the ball to Rodgers on 2 INTs in the 4th quarter, but Rodgers and the offense along with Lafluer forgot how to football. Essentially I would think that's what anyone wants right, the ball in Rodgers hands with a chance to win the game, he got that twice and couldn't get it done. I don't blame anyone individually for that loss, it was a total team loss.

Yes. At the Packer 18, 22 and 28 IIRC. So basically like getting a punt.

[vegas492]

39 minutes ago, cannondale said:

I guess there's my biggest disconnect with most fans on this subject. The defense gives up 30+ again and it's on Rodgers.

Some of it has to be on Rodgers.  Lazard was very open for the TD and he threw it to a doubled Adams.  Then on his one free play, for some reason he didn't look at Adams, who had a walk in long TD.  You win some, you lose some.

Sure the defense did give up points.  Refs did them no favors.  Evans mauled King at the top of the route on the first TD.  Then there was the Pettine gaffe.

But yah, some of it goes to the defense.  But the reality is that we have won 28 games in the past two years.  

I thought for sure this was a regression year.  Clearly it was not and the needle is still trending up in my book.  

[dwaye50327]

19 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

Again, a little bit of context would enlighten.  Two INT 80 yards away from the end zone.  One of them might have been considered a punt.

ok who cares INTs/punts, the defense still got the ball to Rodgers and co in the 4th quarter with a chance to take the lead and nothing. Literally you can't ask for anything else from the defense in that situation, they did their job when the game mattered the most, in the 4th, the offense failed to capitalize. Like I said tho, I'm not putting the blame on any one individual, it was a complete team loss, from the coaches to the players.

[vegas492]

9 minutes ago, dwaye50327 said:

ok who cares INTs/punts, the defense still got the ball to Rodgers and co in the 4th quarter with a chance to take the lead and nothing. Literally you can't ask for anything else from the defense in that situation, they did their job when the game mattered the most, in the 4th, the offense failed to capitalize. Like I said tho, I'm not putting the blame on any one individual, it was a complete team loss, from the coaches to the players.

Offense couldn't even get a first down after those turnovers.  As someone said, the team forgot how to football.