What would you prefer Pace/Nagy to do with the QB position this year?

[dll2000]

14 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I want him to go big at QB.

Because if they miss it doesn't matter. We are blowing the entire thing up and flushing the aging defense and starting over.

If they miss at QB at 20 or 3 it does not matter because the end result is the same.

Why would you of all people want Pace to make that decision? 

Why not ‘want’ to let team suffer this year and hit reset next year with new regime?

[dll2000]

In a vaccuum, I would say best course is to evaluate and take a chance on a young QB with talent kicking around league if he can be acquired for relatively cheap like a Darnold or Tua and give him a one year try out.

But any development is going to be wasted with Nagy because his odds of surviving post next season are poor.

So said QB is back to square one just like we did with MT and Fox.

Bears are just a poorly run org. That hopes to get lucky with enough talent every once in awhile.   

[Superman(DH23)]

40 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

i'm personally just tired of talking about it. nothing i can do, so might as well wait for some more dominos to fall. 

i think a lot of it comes down to Arob - are we able to franchise him and trade him?

yes? - a package of Arob for Darnold and i take an OT/WR in first two rounds. Arob for Brown and I go QB/WR in the first two

no? - maybe we franchise and work out a way to keep him. Maybe WFT cuts Alex Smith, who i would then be on board with, then grab best OT in 1, and either another in 2 or BPA, whether its an edge, wr, TE, CB (depends on cuts/trades to get cap compliant) 

What are we getting back in this scenarionbc you sure as hell arent trading ARob for Darnold straight up.  It would take at least #2 with Darnold.

[HuskieBear]

3 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

What are we getting back in this scenarionbc you sure as hell arent trading ARob for Darnold straight up.  It would take at least #2 with Darnold.

i'm not going to pretend like i know full value for all trades - these are merely base ideas. would a swap of NYJ #23 with our #52 added in as well work or is that "too much?" I have no idea. I've seen fan bases widely overrate their own players, our included. NY loses leverage if they take a QB @ #2, but if the trade happens before the draft does that change? are we able to get full value back on Arob considering whoever is trading for him will then likely have to give him a new contract. 

If we are going to lose Arob, one way or the other, if it's going to be this year, it has to be better value than a 3rd round pick, which would likely be the comp we would get if he walked. Do i think Darnold is better than a 3rd round pick? yes, absolutely. so a base trade of those two straight up, I wouldn't hate. If more is added on one side or the other, I would also understand. 

[Heinz D.]

36 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

In a vaccuum, I would say best course is to evaluate and take a chance on a young QB with talent kicking around league if he can be acquired for relatively cheap like a Darnold or Tua and give him a one year try out.

But any development is going to be wasted with Nagy because his odds of surviving post next season are poor.

So said QB is back to square one just like we did with MT and Fox.

Bears are just a poorly run org. That hopes to get lucky with enough talent every once in awhile.   

I don't know about that. Unless George was convinced that they all were assured of bringing DeShaun Watson to Chicago...I can't envision that Nagy or Pace were given some kind of "deep playoff run or bust" ultimatum. George isn't very bright, of course, so it's hard to say exactly what he thinks will happen, or even what he expects, but by bringing Nagy and Pace back at all, the possibility still exists that they stick around for a while. And boy, was it painful to type those words. 

You can't not try to fix the QB problem simply because there might be a coaching change, though. Any organizational upheaval is secondary to getting the players the team needs to win. 

[dll2000]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I don't know about that. Unless George was convinced that they all were assured of bringing DeShaun Watson to Chicago...I can't envision that Nagy or Pace were given some kind of "deep playoff run or bust" ultimatum. George isn't very bright, of course, so it's hard to say exactly what he thinks will happen, or even what he expects, but by bringing Nagy and Pace back at all, the possibility still exists that they stick around for a while. And boy, was it painful to type those words. 

You can't not try to fix the QB problem simply because there might be a coaching change, though. Any organizational upheaval is secondary to getting the players the team needs to win. 

 

They didn't get extended and are at end of their deals.   That is an ultimatum, no?   What would you call it?

As for as picking QB for lame ducks let me put it this way.

I posit Jacksonville got Urban Meyer because he gets to pick his QB at number 1.   Now is Urban Meyer a great pick for coach?  Arguable, but point is Jacksonville was a positive destination because they are getting what everyone agrees is a generational talent at number 1 to work with.   

Lets say Pace trades up for 3rd or 4th best QB in 2021 using 2022 number 1 pick and other resources to do so and they lose too much and everyone is fired anyway.   Now you are pot committed to this QB for at least another season and probably 3.   Now who are you coaching candidates?   Yes, you can find a coach, you can always find a coach, but is it a desirable location for a top candidate?   No way.    

And what if new coach and/or GM doesn't like the 2021 number 1 pick?  Now you are spending more resources to try to get him/them his QB and everything spent is a 'sunk cost' people love that term like it makes anything better.   

Everyone else isn't standing still during all this QB chasing.   They are upgrading at OL/DL etc.   Rest of our roster is getting worse.  Coach has to be that much better than everyone else because he is at talent disadvantage.  

And new coach has to teach 2021 QB his offense.  So he is a nearly a rookie all over again in 2022.   One less year of development on rookie deal just like Bears did to MT under Fox.    

Bears aren't 'cheap,' but unlike many owners they aren't billionaires outside of their ownership value in team and it provides primary income for much of extended family which grows with each generation.

So they aren't good with firing GMs and Coaches all the time with long years on the deals.  They do do it, but they like to avoid it because it hurts bottom line of their business.  It isn't a vanity project for them, it is their income and bottom line matters.   They don't own the stadium either.  They have a good deal, but it isn't the same.  Their local revenue they exclusively keep isn't close to others and 2020 no fans was a killer.  That one hurt.  That is probably a big reason Nagy and Pace are still here to be honest now that I think about it.      

But in years like this one when they decide to keep guys for one more year it can bite you in butt because it creates obvious perverse incentives which are bad long term.

 

[dll2000]

But if you ask what would I do?  

It's irrelevant because every decision I would have made long before this year would have been totally different and Bears almost never do what I think is right at least not in totality.   Little decisions I often agree with.

Like everyone else I just have to wait and see what they do and try to put a positive spin on it or more often criticize it and then look for a bright side to defend it.

But I would run organization completely different from top to bottom.  Almost 180 degrees from way Bears do it.   I would model org. after 80s/90s DeBartlo Jr. 49ers and Patriots.

I would indepthly search and find a coach with a good track record and vast depth of football knowledge that shared my philosophy in all things and keep him for at least 8 years and build a top to bottom program with acceptable resets built in.   

My top candidate would probably be Patriots McDaniels at this time, but I would have to make sure we were a personality fit first.   Don't really know the guy outside of media reports and I do have some reservations about him as there seems to be a few red flags.   We would have to do some in depth interviews.   

My guy may be in college somewhere.  Who knows?   I am not in that position and never will be.  It's all just fantasy.

 

 

[dll2000]

As long as are fantasizing, I would have moved Bears to Vegas before Oakland did or barring that to the West suburbs with a retractable roof stadium and a nearby metra stop.

I never would have agreed to renovate Soldier field and let park district keep rights to my home stadium, make it ugly and twice as expensive to renovate by doing construction over top of pillars, and leave it in a crappy inaccessible and inconvenient location in coldest part of state (due to Lake effect winds).

Insanity.  

 

[dll2000]

If Covid had not happened in 2020 Vegas Raiders would have been thee away team destination.

They would have made a fortune in local revenue due to what was then a roaring economy and the convenience of flying in to Vegas and driving from West.

In future, Raiders will be hosting many Super Bowls and be a preferred FA destination.   Book it.

 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Why would you of all people want Pace to make that decision? 

Why not ‘want’ to let team suffer this year and hit reset next year with new regime?

Because a reset is not a one year thing. It is a blow it up thing. 

A new GM is not going to come in and renovate what Pace has built. It will be aging and over paid. I don't need a bad year and then 2-3 years of tear down... give me a swing at QB and then nuke it if they miss.

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

They didn't get extended and are at end of their deals.   That is an ultimatum, no?   What would you call it?

Do you honestly think that Phillips and McCaskey told them that they needed to get to the Super Bowl? Or even the Championship Game? With no idea who the quarterback was going to be?

Even George isn't that dumb. They're looking to get the quarterback position right, and for overall team improvement. Maybe the playoffs will be expected? Hard to say. But McCaskey didn't sit them down and say, "You have one more year on your contracts. We're going to have you finish that out because we don't have a lot of money, then we'll be looking elsewhere for a GM and coach." 

There absolutely is a chance that Pace and Nagy could stick past next year. 

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Lets say Pace trades up for 3rd or 4th best QB in 2021 using 2022 number 1 pick and other resources to do so and they lose too much and everyone is fired anyway.   Now you are pot committed to this QB for at least another season and probably 3.   Now who are you coaching candidates?   Yes, you can find a coach, you can always find a coach, but is it a desirable location for a top candidate?   No way.    

You're telling me if the Bears have Zach Wilson or Justin Fields that makes the Bears a less intriguing team because they won't have a number one pick next year?

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

Everyone else isn't standing still during all this QB chasing.   They are upgrading at OL/DL etc.   Rest of our roster is getting worse.  Coach has to be that much better than everyone else because he is at talent disadvantage.  

 

20 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

A new GM is not going to come in and renovate what Pace has built. It will be aging and over paid. I don't need a bad year and then 2-3 years of tear down... give me a swing at QB and then nuke it if they miss.

I don't get it. Outside of Hicks and Mack--what are you guys even talking about? ARob is up there--and the Bears will have to think of a replacement there, no matter what happens. But even Fuller isn't that old, and they may end up trading him, anyway. 

The money issues get better, particularly if they can do something with Mack at some point. A lot of the Bears best players are pretty young...

[Uncle Buck]

My #1 wish for the Bears would be for them to move up to #2-3 and draft Wilson or Fields.  The problem is that I don't trust Nagy to develop him, so I think that would be a waste.

We could roll the dice with Darnold, but it would be a total gamble with him.  The guy I keep coming back to is Gardner Minshew.  I just think he makes the most sense for the Bears' current situation.  His upside is probably not as high as Darnold's, but his floor is certainly higher. 

If you wanted to use ARob as capital for a trade, that would very well be possible with the Jaguars, as they were the team that drafted him, and they also have the cap space to absorb his contract.  Jags fans would probably like to see him come back home too.

[Sugashane]

5 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I picked other.  

  I don’t want lame ducks picking any future QB or spending any future assets.  

Not fair to next coach and GM.  

Obviously not going to happen since Bears made lame ducks in first place and gave them an unspoken (publicly) mandate to win.

I dont blame you. One positive note would be if the QB blows then they can use that for their first season and put the new QB and GM in position for a high pick. Worked for Pace, though missing the pick still sucked. 

 

[dll2000]

21 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Do you honestly think that Phillips and McCaskey told them that they needed to get to the Super Bowl? Or even the Championship Game? With no idea who the quarterback was going to be?

No.  He didn't say anything.   They have to win 'enough' to keep their jobs.  It is an unspoken subjective standard every coach/Gm on hot seat faces.  I would say a playoff win and team improvement does it.  

Even George isn't that dumb. They're looking to get the quarterback position right, and for overall team improvement. Maybe the playoffs will be expected? Hard to say. But McCaskey didn't sit them down and say, "You have one more year on your contracts. We're going to have you finish that out because we don't have a lot of money, then we'll be looking elsewhere for a GM and coach." 

There absolutely is a chance that Pace and Nagy could stick past next year. 

No one said there is zero chance.   If they found a decent QB without giving up much, significantly upgraded OT, kept ARob and Nagy coaches better,  things can go well with luck and health.  To me that is their best short term path forward.   Not making a moonshot trade. 

You're telling me if the Bears have Zach Wilson or Justin Fields that makes the Bears a less intriguing team because they won't have a number one pick next year?

First they probably aren't getting any of those guys, so start picking guys outside that group and still give up number 1.   So yes, take Mack and give up 1 and in this scenario Bears have lost enough for Pace/Nagy to be fired.   Therefore no one is enthused with young QB.  How does job look now in 2022?   You still have to fix O line and key guys are aging out or hitting end of rookie contracts.   

Even if they got a top guy somehow, remember tank for Tua?   He was the man.   Now nobody wants him very much.  Rosen was big time prospect and nobody wanted him very next year (except Miami again - LOL).   Goff and Wentz (1 and 2) just got bounced in trades.  Mariota and WInston (1 and 2) bounced earlier and kicking around league.    MT gone.   Early pick is no guarantee of anything.   

GMs/HCs usually want to sink or swim with their own choices not someone else's.

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Because a reset is not a one year thing. It is a blow it up thing. 

A new GM is not going to come in and renovate what Pace has built. It will be aging and over paid. I don't need a bad year and then 2-3 years of tear down... give me a swing at QB and then nuke it if they miss.

I don't get it. Outside of Hicks and Mack--what are you guys even talking about? ARob is up there--and the Bears will have to think of a replacement there, no matter what happens. But even Fuller isn't that old, and they may end up trading him, anyway. 

The money issues get better, particularly if they can do something with Mack at some point. A lot of the Bears best players are pretty young...

Young but hitting end of rookie deals and looking to get paid like Smith, Nichols, and Daniels.  Others aging out: Hicks, Mack, Trevathan, Graham, Massie, and Leno.  Some of guys are good riddance, but they still need to be replaced with quality now or in near future.

 @WindyCityAny kind of reset will be infinitely harder without the early 2022 draft picks in the fold.   You already missed out on 2019 and 2020 number 1's. 

A 'nuclear' reset brings you down to expansion team levels and can be really hard to come out of.    

 

 

 

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Do you honestly think that Phillips and McCaskey told them that they needed to get to the Super Bowl? Or even the Championship Game? With no idea who the quarterback was going to be?

Even George isn't that dumb. They're looking to get the quarterback position right, and for overall team improvement. Maybe the playoffs will be expected? Hard to say. But McCaskey didn't sit them down and say, "You have one more year on your contracts. We're going to have you finish that out because we don't have a lot of money, then we'll be looking elsewhere for a GM and coach." 

There absolutely is a chance that Pace and Nagy could stick past next year. 

You're telling me if the Bears have Zach Wilson or Justin Fields that makes the Bears a less intriguing team because they won't have a number one pick next year?

 

I don't get it. Outside of Hicks and Mack--what are you guys even talking about? ARob is up there--and the Bears will have to think of a replacement there, no matter what happens. But even Fuller isn't that old, and they may end up trading him, anyway. 

The money issues get better, particularly if they can do something with Mack at some point. A lot of the Bears best players are pretty young...

We have one of the oldest teams in the league right now.

Over 30

Mack

Quinn

Trevathan

Hicks

Gipson

Approaching 30

Goldman

Fuller

Jackson

 

This defenses window is slamming shut before our eyes.