Defense-dissection, dilemma, and decisions

[DaWg_LB.]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:16 PM, Kiwibrown said:

At corner we really need 4 more guys. 

I dont want Johnson back. 

If greedy comes back even then I doubt he plays 16 games, same for ward. 

If we resign mitchell, he is a solid number 4 corner.

I would say we would need 4 if we dont bring Johnson back. I DO want to bring back Terrance Mitchell.....but I look at it we just brought back Robert Jackson, and I am interested to see what we have in A.J. Green, last year when we signed him as an uDFA to the largest UDFA signing bonus in history, a lot of talking heads were saying he could have gone as high as round 4/5. So with Greedy, Ward, T.Mitch and A.J.G., that's 4 if we dont count robert jackson....so I dont see a need for 4 more CB's. We dont want to overkill the position the expense of other positions.

 

I think we need to draft 1 to 2 cb's...but I DO think we need to draft 2 safeties....doing my Mock is built around S aquisition 1rst Morwhrig + Cisco in the 3rd, or Jevon Holland in the 2nd + A'darius Washington in the 4th. Delpit coming back, Harrison for a full year and Sheldrick Redwine who I want to see another year from....would give Joe W. what he needs to run the Browns Big Nickle.....and since the name of the Dawg Pound ORIGINATED with our Secondary....its only fitting it should lead us into this new world of winning.

[Reginaldm9]

The nerds are smart enough to know that pass rush and pass defense are what really matters most. DE, CB are our most pressing needs with LB, S, and DT all being spots we could use a starter. DE and CB probably get figured out in FA while we go young at the other three areas of weakness if I had to guess. 

[Kiwibrown]

7 hours ago, DaWg_LB. said:

I would say we would need 4 if we dont bring Johnson back. I DO want to bring back Terrance Mitchell.....but I look at it we just brought back Robert Jackson, and I am interested to see what we have in A.J. Green, last year when we signed him as an uDFA to the largest UDFA signing bonus in history, a lot of talking heads were saying he could have gone as high as round 4/5. So with Greedy, Ward, T.Mitch and A.J.G., that's 4 if we dont count robert jackson....so I dont see a need for 4 more CB's. We dont want to overkill the position the expense of other positions.

 

I think we need to draft 1 to 2 cb's...but I DO think we need to draft 2 safeties....doing my Mock is built around S aquisition 1rst Morwhrig + Cisco in the 3rd, or Jevon Holland in the 2nd + A'darius Washington in the 4th. Delpit coming back, Harrison for a full year and Sheldrick Redwine who I want to see another year from....would give Joe W. what he needs to run the Browns Big Nickle.....and since the name of the Dawg Pound ORIGINATED with our Secondary....its only fitting it should lead us into this new world of winning.

With safety's I like our group if we keep Joesph and redwine, and play harrison and delphit.

Joesph is probably our best tackler. 

[LinebackerGod]

13 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

With safety's I like our group if we keep Joesph and redwine, and play harrison and delphit.

Joesph is probably our best tackler. 

I still think we need another guy. Ideally, we could draft another strong safety that can actually cover and move Harrison into the box to be our "3rd LB'er" or "Big Nickel."

Harrison can cover...I just think we could get another guy to fill that role. Or keep Harrison there and draft a S to convert to LB.

 

I don't think Joseph will be back. He's going to get a decent amount of money in FA I would guess. If not, then sure, let's run it back.

[LinebackerGod]

I think our biggest need is really adding an interior pass rusher. This is a terrible draft class for it. Ideally, bringing in JJ Watt would solve that. Additionally, I look for DE's that can play inside in sub packages. The best one is Gregory Rousseau, and it's not even close. He brings the juice from the inside and if he were a little heavier, would play there full-time.

I think we could see a guy like Kwity Paye or Carlos Basham get reps inside, but they either don't look natural there yet (Basham) or haven't really repped inside (Paye). I think those two guys are going to be good base DE's in a 4-3 and aren't guys that really have the versatility to play a lot inside. Both are good prospects, but neither really satiates my thirst for an interior nightmare.

Christian Barmore is pretty much the only other DT I think could start right away and provide some interior pressure. I just hate Barmore's laziness and inconsistency. He doesn't play with his hands on a snap-to-snap basis, plays with poor pad height, and seems to lack a great IQ generally. That being said, the same things were said about Chris Jones, who is an absolute terror now. Barmore is raw, but at least he has the traits to be dominant, unlike a lot of these other guys who have physical limitations.

 

Levi Onwuzurike is a guy I want to love, but I've heard mixed reviews. On one hand, he's a twitched up 285 and has bull-like strength. On the other hand, he lacks balance and appears to be very top-heavy in terms of strength. He doesn't anchor well and seems to always end up on the ground when he doesn't win with his initial rush move. I think he might be fool's gold.

 

I used to love Jalen Twyman, but I think I loved the idea of him more than I loved the player. He's a short, squatty, powerfully built DT with speed, but he has like...zero intangibles. He is routinely late off the snap, he doesn't play with his hands, he's never seen a double team before apparently, and has no gap integrity. I am slowly souring on him.

 

Forrest Merrill and Lorenzo Neal are two later round guys I think are going to be really good. Like, starter good. Both may end up undrafted. Another late round guy I love is Isaiahh Loudermilk from Wisconsin. He is more of a 5-Tech than a true DT, but he's got some good traits and has been a productive player for Wisconsin for a long time. He's got really good hand usage and gap integrity.

[MSURacerDT55]

2 hours ago, GodOfLinebackers said:

I think our biggest need is really adding an interior pass rusher. This is a terrible draft class for it. Ideally, bringing in JJ Watt would solve that. Additionally, I look for DE's that can play inside in sub packages. The best one is Gregory Rousseau, and it's not even close. He brings the juice from the inside and if he were a little heavier, would play there full-time.

I think we could see a guy like Kwity Paye or Carlos Basham get reps inside, but they either don't look natural there yet (Basham) or haven't really repped inside (Paye). I think those two guys are going to be good base DE's in a 4-3 and aren't guys that really have the versatility to play a lot inside. Both are good prospects, but neither really satiates my thirst for an interior nightmare.

Christian Barmore is pretty much the only other DT I think could start right away and provide some interior pressure. I just hate Barmore's laziness and inconsistency. He doesn't play with his hands on a snap-to-snap basis, plays with poor pad height, and seems to lack a great IQ generally. That being said, the same things were said about Chris Jones, who is an absolute terror now. Barmore is raw, but at least he has the traits to be dominant, unlike a lot of these other guys who have physical limitations.

 

Levi Onwuzurike is a guy I want to love, but I've heard mixed reviews. On one hand, he's a twitched up 285 and has bull-like strength. On the other hand, he lacks balance and appears to be very top-heavy in terms of strength. He doesn't anchor well and seems to always end up on the ground when he doesn't win with his initial rush move. I think he might be fool's gold.

 

I used to love Jalen Twyman, but I think I loved the idea of him more than I loved the player. He's a short, squatty, powerfully built DT with speed, but he has like...zero intangibles. He is routinely late off the snap, he doesn't play with his hands, he's never seen a double team before apparently, and has no gap integrity. I am slowly souring on him.

 

Forrest Merrill and Lorenzo Neal are two later round guys I think are going to be really good. Like, starter good. Both may end up undrafted. Another late round guy I love is Isaiahh Loudermilk from Wisconsin. He is more of a 5-Tech than a true DT, but he's got some good traits and has been a productive player for Wisconsin for a long time. He's got really good hand usage and gap integrity.

First of all, Outstanding post.

 

- I am in total agreeance with you regarding Rosseau, he could be so much of a stud inside for us, if he were to get up to about 285 and could be an inside/outside monster for us, especially if we go veteran opposite of Myles.

- As far as Kwity and Basham, im still for some reason Meh on Paye, he does a lot of things really well but he seems like a low floor type of guy. Basham on the other im just more excited about, and I will disagree with you about him playing inside, go watch the 1 on 1's in the Senior Bowl, he was killing inside, he looked fairly natural inside

- As far as Barmore, im reluctantly warming up to him. I had the same Chris Jones comp for him, he pretty much has it all to be an impact, All-Pro DT, but he is just lazy but you can attribute that to his age. He needs to learn how to turn up his level of play all the way up and break the switch. If we drafted him, I would be very happy, beginning of the season, I wouldn't have said that. 

- Levi Onwuzurike is growing on me like how Peter Parker was exposed to Venom, looking at the big picture, he is exactly what Joe Wood's defense is looking for in a DT. A smart, stout, disciplined DT who is an EASY MOVER. His redirection skills are incredible, and has plenty of pass rushing potential. With all of that said, its just something missing with him IMO. I would be ok with taking him in the 2nd and would be over the moon if we selected him in the 3rd.

- Your Twyman take is the one I have to disagree with, now If you said he seemed more interested with rushing the passer than stopping the run, I would agree 100% with. He uses his and he does it really well, as a quick reference go look at his 2019 highlights, almost from the first highlight there were plenty of club/rips, push-pull/swims, and regular club swims. He is very intentional with his hands and you see when he rushes he is actively trying to use a move,  plus he regularly trains with Aaron Donald so he takes his hand to hand combat seriously.

- I am still a big fan of Marvin Wilson, I think once he heals from those injuries he's sustained he can go back to being a constant force inside, plus he probably could be had for a 3rd or maybe a 4th

- A guy you need to check out that might be a stud at the next level is Alim McNeill. He has the physical dimensions of a 3-4 Nose but he is a big athlete who moves like he is 285 but plays with the strength of a guy 320. He looks like a guy who's best football is way ahead of him, as a prospect he reminds me of Javon Hargrave, a similar prospect who played faster and more athletic than what his dimensions suggested.

- Tommy Togiai absolutely gets zero respect, he's going to be a guy looking back where people are going to look back like and wonder why he didn't get any of the hype of other prospects

- Lastly, an underrated, small school interior pass rusher? Milton Williams, dude is a stud. 

[LinebackerGod]

6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

A guy you need to check out that might be a stud at the next level is Alim McNeill. He has the physical dimensions of a 3-4 Nose but he is a big athlete who moves like he is 285 but plays with the strength of a guy 320. He looks like a guy who's best football is way ahead of him, as a prospect he reminds me of Javon Hargrave, a similar prospect who played faster and more athletic than what his dimensions suggested.

I want to watch more of him. I've heard good things and have seen clips that show that he is more than just a plugger. I like what I've seen in highlight tapes, but I haven't actually studied a full game tape.

[#32]

This week will determine what direction Browns defense will change.  Many decisions with our FA’s like Goodson, Larry, Smith, Joseph, Johnson, Mitchell, and restructure Richardson.  They tendered Gustis.  So, right now D line Garrett, Gustis, Billings, and Elliot with maybe Richardson.  LB,s Taki, Wilson, and Phillips!  D backfield decisions will be interesting.  On paper, S is Delpit and Harrison with Redwine in reserve.  CB is Ward and Williams with nothing in reserve unless they sign Mitchell or Johnson.

[LinebackerGod]

On 2/23/2021 at 3:00 PM, Reginaldm9 said:

The nerds are smart enough to know that pass rush and pass defense are what really matters most. DE, CB are our most pressing needs with LB, S, and DT all being spots we could use a starter. DE and CB probably get figured out in FA while we go young at the other three areas of weakness if I had to guess. 

I think you're spot-on. Our order of need through the eyes of the front office is going to be:

1a: Starting DE. 
1b: Starting CB.
2: Starting Nickel CB
3: Rotational Safety.
4a: Linebacker
4b: Defensive Tackle

[MSURacerDT55]

Danielle Hunter would certainly help

[candyman93]

Kind of a “no duh” but this offseason will tell me a lot philosophically.

 

Does the front office want to try and replicate the LOB? They need to really hammer on draft picks and free agents the next 2 years to pull that off.

Edited March 8, 2021 by candyman93

[AkronsWitness]

3 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Kind of a “no duh” but this offseason will tell me a lot philosophically.

 

Does the front office want to try and replicate the LOB? They need to really hammer on draft picks and free agents the next 2 years to pull that off.

They need to start drafting aggressive players who can thump if thats the case. The entire secondary right now is made of frail glass

[bruceb]

33 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

They need to start drafting aggressive players who can thump if thats the case. The entire secondary right now is made of frail glass

Thump and stay healthy.

[#32]

I like many believe DE is the highest priority then CB.  Luckily this year’s FA is very strong with both positions of need.  With the release of Clayborn, it is clear we are looking at FA’s at DE. There are many DE’s available and Berry has demonstrated his acumen in acquiring a player who is young and improving.  I like Reddick and Lawson but am cautious on many as fool’s gold like Dupree.  My belief is the DE is where the big money will go.  However, there are many analysts who believe Browns might pursue 3-4 players at the $5M arena. With cap space an issue, Browns would either have to cut Richardson or Landry to go after two big money players.

[mtmmike]

On 2/22/2021 at 7:01 AM, MWil23 said:

Needs:

1. Pass Rush/DL: Someone opposite Myles to be at least average/above average and someone else on the interior to be above average. Ideally, this would be a combination of draft and free agency.

2. CB: Even if Greedy and Ward stay healthy, we need another slot option. With the amount of injury time both have missed, we for sure need to invest in this spot. Preferably, someone who is good in man coverage. Our 3rd down defense/4th down defense was so awful because we couldn't play man coverage at all opposite Ward.

3. LB: We need a 3 down off ball LB, period. We need a versatile MLB who is able to be a sideline to sideline run stopper and valuable in coverage. Anything that he gives us blitzing is gravy. You could argue that we need two, but if TakiTaki is able to be an SLB/nickel/hybrid EDGE blitz guy and Goodson comes back as a 2 down thumper, I could actually see us only "needing" one this year. This position is very valuable in today's NFL. See: Tampa Bay, Seattle, Baltimore, Pittsburgh

4. S: I'm sure that some will have this higher, but IF Delpit comes back 100% healthy, we will have him and Harrison, which is a solid starting S duo (in theory). I'd still love to have a 3rd guy/hybrid slot/push FS here, or even a hybrid S/LB type, but it's not AS big of a need as the other 3 IMO.

By my count, we need at least 4-5 new defensive starting/valuable rotational members assuming that the above guys come back healthy. (2 DL, 1 MLB, 1 CB, maybe 1 S)

Sign Shaq Barrett go to super bowl