Houston is gonna drop the ball on Watson

[Blue]

6 hours ago, Kirill said:

Reasons not to trade for Watson:

All time low throwing velocity, less than 50MPH, becomes a more apparent issue in the playoffs.

Already taken a bunch of hits and has a big contract.

The track record of players holding out in dramatic fashion then returning to their prior form is iffy at best. You know this entire situation is just eating away at his mind and not helping him progress and develop in the mental side of the game.

I will say he's a great leader and guys gravitate to him which is his starpower trait, but this idea that teams should be lining up to give off 3 first round picks and more for him is ludicrous to me. That makes sense for the 49ers and probably no one else.

 

lol, somebody really doesn't think Watson is an elite quarterback? All but 3-4 teams would trade their current starter for Watson straight up no questions asked.

[Kirill]

3 minutes ago, Blue said:

lol, somebody really doesn't think Watson is an elite quarterback? All but 3-4 teams would trade their current starter for Watson straight up no questions asked.

He's got one playoff win otherwise looked bad and he was recorded with all-time slow throwing velocity. He's more game manager than Mahomes, you need a stacked team around him to win the chip, something you're not going to have if you give up five first round picks to get him. It's so much smarter to just draft your own guy in round 1.

Watson is just a guy. I'm telling y'all. He's not that good.

[iknowcool]

I mean... ya'll do realize he's only 25 years old, right?

Of course there are some things he can do better.  But how many QBs across the history of the NFL, Mahomes and Marino aside, are damn near perfect QBs at his age?  Even Rodgers, for as good as he was in 2008 in his first year starting, was just so, so much better in 2011.  And that isn't just about the #s.  Go watch '08 Rodgers if you can find some and then go watch '11 Rodgers.  

There is just no strong reason to think that Watson is even closed to maxed out.  Like no reason at all.  He's gotten better every year.  He's a great athlete.  Great competitor.  Great accuracy.  Yeah some things like his pocket presence/awareness could be a lot better (probably his biggest flaw IMO; Texans OL isn't good but he has a tendency of making it look even worse).  But the dude is 25.  What reason could you possibly have to think that a dude playing this good this early at QB is just going to suddenly stop improving?  

It's like trying to act like Peyton Manning wasn't worth 3 first round picks prior to 2003 just because he wasn't a finished product and had flaws (ie turnovers).  Nobody is trading for Deshaun Watson just because of how he has looked so far.  They are trading for him because QBs that perform this well this early in their career typically continue to improve, especially around 27-30 (ala Russ).  

Watson is 100% worth 3 1st-round picks.  And then some.  Easily.  It is just way more likely that his best years are ahead of him than him being a finished product.

Edited February 24, 2021 by iknowcool

[Kirill]

57 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

I mean... ya'll do realize he's only 25 years old, right?

Of course there are some things he can do better.  But how many QBs across the history of the NFL, Mahomes and Marino aside, are damn near perfect QBs at his age?  Even Rodgers, for as good as he was in 2008 in his first year starting, was just so, so much better in 2011.  And that isn't just about the #s.  Go watch '08 Rodgers if you can find some and then go watch '11 Rodgers.  

There is just no strong reason to think that Watson is even closed to maxed out.  Like no reason at all.  He's gotten better every year.  He's a great athlete.  Great competitor.  Great accuracy.  Yeah some things like his pocket presence/awareness could be a lot better (probably his biggest flaw IMO; Texans OL isn't good but he has a tendency of making it look even worse).  But the dude is 25.  What reason could you possibly have to think that a dude playing this good this early at QB is just going to suddenly stop improving?  

It's like trying to act like Peyton Manning wasn't worth 3 first round picks prior to 2003 just because he wasn't a finished product and had flaws (ie turnovers).  Nobody is trading for Deshaun Watson just because of how he has looked so far.  They are trading for him because QBs that perform this well this early in their career typically continue to improve, especially around 27-30 (ala Russ).  

Watson is 100% worth 3 1st-round picks.  And then some.  Easily.  It is just way more likely that his best years are ahead of him than him being a finished product.

I just disagree on the talent level. Watson threw the slowest recorded speed in combine history at 49 MPH... yeah he can improve on it but I've known that fact since I've watched him play and its pretty clearly still a thing. He definitely isn't capable of throwing lazers like Allen, Mahomes, Herbert. I just think that will present more of a problem in the playoffs.

In regards to QB's I'd rather have Mahomes, Wilson, Murray, Allen, Rodgers, Herbert, Brady, and Lawrence.

That's 8 guys. So he's effectively in the Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, Tua, Matt Ryan, Baker Mayfield, Derek Carr tier, sliding just into the top 10 of QB's, easily able to fall out of the top 10 if he barely has a down year.

So you're telling me it's smarter to trade 3 first round picks and then some to pay Watson 35M+ annually rather than just draft a Trey Lance or Justin Fields who will be cheap for 5 years and cost only one first round pick?

I just don't see the logic.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Kirill

[Kirill]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

lol, somebody really doesn't think Watson is an elite quarterback? All but 3-4 teams would trade their current starter for Watson straight up no questions asked.

Packers jets chiefs bills chargers cardinals seahawks ravens Buccaneers say no my friend.

Watson ain't all that and a bag of chips. He's just a bag of chips.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Kirill

[DirtyDez]

Just now, Kirill said:

Packers jets chiefs bills chargers cardinals seahawks ravens Buccaneers say no my friend.

Watson ain't all that and a bag of chips. He's just a bag of chips.

I hope Kyler is as good as Watson one day therefor I’d make that trade+

[Kirill]

2 minutes ago, DirtyDez said:

I hope Kyler is as good as Watson one day therefor I’d make that trade+

He's better than Watson. Will be more lethal in the playoffs, more arm talent, dual threat, more emotionally mature... he just needs a coach that hasn't lost at every level but got the job anyway cause he's buddies with McVay.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Kirill

[Kirill]

I had my qualms with Bill O'Brien but at least he was a classic football guy. Kliff Kingsbury is just a meme of a coach with way too nice of a house.

[iknowcool]

1 minute ago, Kirill said:

I just disagree on the talent level. Watson threw the slowest recorded speed in combine history at 49 MPH  Yeah he can improve on it but I've known that fact since I've watched him play and its pretty clearly still a thing. He definitely isn't capable of throwing lazers like Allen, Mahomes, Herbert. I just think that will present more of a problem in the playoffs.

In regards to QB's I'd rather have Mahomes, Wilson, Murray, Allen, Rodgers, Herbert, Brady, and Lawrence.

That's 8 guys. So he's effectively in the Matt Stafford, Kirk Cousins, Tua, Matt Ryan tier, sliding just into the top 10.

There is absolutely no way that you watched Stafford, Cousins, Tua, Murray, and Ryan in 2020, and then watched Watson, and came to the conclusion that he is on the same tier as them.  Don't get me wrong, I like some of those guys, but come on.  Tua?  And does Cousins' best year even match up to Watson's worst?

And you keep harping on the arm strength.  You seem way too fixated on something like throw speed MPH.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with Watson's arm strength.  Give me some throws that Watson failed to make because of his arm strength.  I've just never at any point watching him thought to myself, "if only Watson had a stronger arm..."  On top of that, whatever he lacks in arm strength, he makes up for it with unbelievable touch on all of his throws.  He can make all the throws.

And how much of "I think that [lack of arm strength] will present more of a problem in the playoffs" is based on anything Watson has actually shown throughout his career?  For Watson's career...

In December (13 games): 69.8 CMP%, 3568 yards, 18 TDs, 6 INTs, 7.9 Y/A, 101 QB Rating (21 TDs to 7 INTs when including January).  Keep in mind that I would imagine every team generally has worse passing numbers in December/January and November than they do in October and September.

Outdoors (22 games): 67.0 CMP%, 5450 yards, 36 TDs, 17 INTs, 8.1 Y/A, 99 QB Rating.  Again, I would imagine that every team generally has worse passing numbers outdoors than indoors.

In the 1 game he played where it was < 40 F in 2020, he had a 70 CMP%, 7.3 Y/A, 1 TD to 0 INT with a 101 QB Rating.

Other than the "slowest recorded speed in combine history," what has Watson shown you on the field that makes you think his arm strength is going to somehow hold him back in the postseason, to the point where it completely negates his near-elite ball placement?

[Blue]

40 minutes ago, Kirill said:

Packers jets chiefs bills chargers cardinals seahawks ravens Buccaneers say no my friend.

Watson ain't all that and a bag of chips. He's just a bag of chips.

Yes I too would say no to a straight up trade of MVP candidate Deshaun Watson because of everything Sam Darnold has shown through three seasons

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

lol, somebody really doesn't think Watson is an elite quarterback? All but 3-4 teams would trade their current starter for Watson straight up no questions asked.

Chiefs, Chargers, Ravens (Watson completely folds every time he plays against the Ravens, I'll stick with the younger player who's a former unanimous MVP), Cardinals (I think Watson is a lot better than Murray but the Cards wouldn't do this swap), Seahawks, Bills, Bucs would all keep their guys. Packers, Falcons, Rams, would probably swap but only for age reasons. Browns probably wouldn't want to mess up their mojo and might roll with Baker. The Raiders seem to feel confident in Derek Carr enough that it's not a given and the same with the Titans who are pretty happy with Tannehill. 

 

Watson is a great QB, but come on now be realistic. 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[Blue]

6 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Chiefs, Chargers, Ravens (Watson completely folds every time he plays against the Ravens, I'll stick with the younger player who's a former unanimous MVP), Cardinals (I think Watson is a lot better than Murray but the Cards wouldn't do this swap), Seahawks, Bills, Bucs would all keep their guys. Packers, Falcons, Rams, would probably swap but only for age reasons. Browns probably wouldn't want to mess up their mojo and might roll with Baker. The Raiders seem to feel confident in Derek Carr enough that it's not a given and the same with the Titans who are pretty happy with Tannehill. 

 

Watson is a great QB, but come on now be realistic. 

 

I am realistic, the only teams that wouldn't make a straight-up trade are the Chiefs, Seahawks, maybe the Bills and Packers.

Geez, y'all thinking that Baltimore wouldn't trade Lamar Jackson for Deshaun Watson straight up in a heartbeat are utterly delusional.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Blue

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

25 minutes ago, Blue said:

I am realistic, the only teams that wouldn't make a straight-up trade are the Chiefs, Seahawks, maybe the Bills and Packers.

Geez, y'all thinking that Baltimore wouldn't trade Lamar Jackson for Deshaun Watson straight up in a heartbeat are utterly delusional.

Lol, yeah you know that unanimous MVP guy who was the best football player on earth last year? let's swap him for a guy who had more losses this season than Lamar has in his entire career. That's totally how front offices work.....

Call me crazy but when I think of this past season I remember Lamar putting up 47 with poop in his pants and after losing 10 pounds to COVID against that vaunted Browns defense that held Watson to a whopping 7 points and a loss. I'll  stick with the guy who has achieved higher heights and is younger. 

Also, maybe the Bills? Really? they wouldn't even answer the phone if Houston called. You can think a QB is better, but swapping with another one is a totally different story. If the Texans were able to pull Lamar, Aaron Rodgers, Justin Herbert, or Kyler Murray in a 1 to 1 swap for Watson, given the disaster of a situation the Texans are in they already would have done that. That tells me NFL GM's completely disagree with you. 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy

[Blue]

10 minutes ago, ThatJaxxenGuy said:

Lol, yeah you know that unanimous MVP guy who was the best football player on earth last year?

We aren't talking about Aaron Donald bro.

[ThatJaxxenGuy]

30 minutes ago, Blue said:

We aren't talking about Aaron Donald bro.

Either way. Watson is currently for sale. You say all these teams like the Chargers, Ravens, Bills, Cardinals would swap their QBs (at which the Texans would absolutely bite given the completely desperate bargaining position they hold) without hesitation. Yet when Watson is the most available he will ever be, none of these teams have offered their QBs up for Watson. Curious. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ThatJaxxenGuy