Which team that missed the playoffs has the best chance of being this years Bucs?

[Dr A W Niloc]

24 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

The only Covid opt out worth a damn for the pats was Hightower. Cannon and Chung’s replacements performed better than they did the previous season.  I’m sick and tired of people using that as an excuse why the team sucked this year lol.

      I agree wholeheartedly that some of the replacements may have wallypipped the originals, raising the aggregate talent level going into 2021.  This makes it all the more likely that the Patriots will be in Super Bowl LVI.  However, New England isn't the sum of its parts.  Its synergy arises from team cohesion and coaching, both of which bottomed out in 2020 because of COVID-19.

[CP3MVP]

1 hour ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

      I agree wholeheartedly that some of the replacements may have wallypipped the originals, raising the aggregate talent level going into 2021.  This makes it all the more likely that the Patriots will be in Super Bowl LVI.  However, New England isn't the sum of its parts.  Its synergy arises from team cohesion and coaching, both of which bottomed out in 2020 because of COVID-19.

They sucked because they had no QB and the defense went from best to ok not covid. There a really good chance neither Chung or Cannon Sre on the roster opening day. Everyone else who opted out are garbage scrubs 

Edited March 4, 2021 by CP3MVP

[SteelKing728]

1. Dolphins

2. Cardinals

3. Chargers

4. Cowboys

5. 49ers

If its just to make the playoffs though, the Vikings are #1.

[FrantikRam]

On 2/28/2021 at 1:26 AM, SkippyX said:

I just took a look at the Rams. They have some work to do

3 of their top 5 secondary players are UFA/UFA/RFA

• Hill, Johnson, and RFA Williams

 

They are losing their edge again and their rotation olb in Ekuban is UFA as well.

They are also losing a bunch of depth pieces on offense in Everett, Brown, and Reynolds.

• They are set at RB if Akers and Henderson stay healthy.
• They drafted a TE who did not get a target in 2020
• They drafted an edge LB, Lewis, who got a couple sacks last year
• They drafted Van Jefferson who had 19 catches last year.
  • He will have to be a starting 3 and a fill in 2 when Kupp or Woods miss games.

 

They also have no money. (35 million less than no money)

Whitworth will be 40 in December.

 

They pick 57, 185, and 217 in the draft.

 

But they have Stafford, so it'll be fine.

 

The only guy we will miss is John Johnson.

We've made a habit of red shirting guys - so Brycen Hopkins not getting snaps last year doesn't mean much. Everett dropped an insane number of passes this year for a part time player, so this won't be a drop off.

Van Jefferson will be better than Josh Reynolds. Not remotely concerned about Reynolds leaving (no other Rams fan is either).

Malcolm Brown is the third RB.

Ebukam has done very, very little outside of a random two TD game on MNF.

I like Troy Hill but we likely already have a NCB on the roster to take over him.

Leonard Floyd will owe Aaron Donald 70% of his contract. Ask Falcons fans how Dante Fowler is doing for that $16 million contract. Well sign another edge rusher who has disappointed and he will magically reach 10 sacks.

Rams will be under the cap by restructuring some contracts - last year it felt like we'd have no money to spend but signed multiple FAs. Don't expect that much activity but I do expect a WR and EDGE, possibly a C too.

We draft a year in advance for needs - we drafted Burgess/Fuller to prepare for John Johnson leaving, Hopkins for Everett, Jefferson for Reynolds. The only really good player that will be leaving is JJ. That's a concern. He called the defense last year and I'd consider tagging him since safeties are pretty cheap to tag. If not hoping that Burgess can step up, but our defense will surely fall off next year.

The good news is that with Stafford, Akers and Jefferson after their rookie years, along with Woods and Kupp, should return to a top 5 offense.

It'll be interesting to see what were able to do in free agency - if we're able to get a vet C, a WR (for depth) and an EDGE that would shore up almost every position before the draft

[FrantikRam]

8 hours ago, Zalixar said:

Haven't you heard?  We are a terrible team and probably picking top 5.

 

Haven't seen anyone say that.

But no more Cardinals hype. Last year was too much. Murray for MVP, Cardinals will make the playoffs. Nope.

[FrantikRam]

On 3/1/2021 at 4:08 PM, HoboRocket said:

Got our IDL upgrade in JJ Watt. The team also seriously missed Jordan Phillips' presence when he went down, and he'll be back. Dude was eating double teams on the inside, but now teams will be forced to deal with Chandler Jones, Haason Reddick, JJ Watt, Jordan Phillips, Dennis Gardeck, and Devon Kennard. That's a group, man. 

But yeah, I expect the IDL to be significantly better just from a combo of Watt's addition, Phillips being healthy, and ideally Leki Fotu and Rashard Lawrence will improve in their sophomore seasons. 

Now, the wishlist would be (in this order):

1. Receiving weapon (WR or TE - ideally someone who can be counted on to at least get to 700 yards from scrimmage, as even that much would be an upgrade over anyone not-named DeAndre Hopkins); whether that's from player progression and development, a FA addition, or the draft, I don't care as long as this team has a viable second option in the passing game.

2. Outside cornerback. Ideally, it would be someone who could handle deep speed. Both Peterson and Dre Kirkpatrick are getting up there in age and don't have the deep speed anymore. Peterson is expected to depart, anyways. Byron Murphy has good quickness and decent speed, but he isn't long enough and doesn't have the jets to go stride for stride with a legit deep threat on the outside. 

3. Running back. Kenyan Drake was a disappointment and isn't really worth keeping at his expected price tag. He struggled a lot running between the tackles and Chase Edmonds looked much more dynamic. Edmonds has good traits and has been efficient, but I'm not sure that he's a bell-cow. Eno Benjamin is a cheap guy on a rookie deal, and he has some believers, but even if Edmonds and Eno end up getting increased playing time, I'd like a contingency plan if they falter.

Currently, I'd rate the position groups for 2021 (expecting to franchise or re-sign Reddick):

QB: A

OL: B+

WR: B-

RB: B

TE: C

DL: B-

EDGE: A+

CB: B-

S: A

Some key additions could really away this, but overall the Cards have a solid roster. Literally just upgrading the weapons and finding a corner would be massive.

 

OL was pretty bad every time I watched them. And if we're saying the 10th-15th best QB in the NFL is an A, that's going to make it tough to even assign a grade to Mahomes and company at the top.

[Turnobili]

On 2/27/2021 at 9:13 PM, HoboRocket said:

I'm going to go the homer route and pick the Cardinals. The Cardinals had some quality wins against tough opponents. A lot of the pieces were there, but they couldn't put it together on a week-to-week basis.

Their offense and defense were both borderline top-10 in points, and they were the 6th-ranked offense in yardage. They were a middle-of-the-pack passing game and a dangerous team on the ground. Kenyan Drake wasn't very impressive, but they still racked up yards with Kyler putting up RB numbers to supplement Drake, and Chase Edmonds did well in limited opportunities once again, racking up nearly as many yards from scrimmage as Drake. Drake is expected to exit via free agency, but honestly, it should be fairly easy to upgrade him. He was incredible in 2019 for us, but was just so lackluster this past year. There are multiple RBs that should be able to replace or upgrade his production in free agency, and the draft is always an excellent option for RBs. There are a few guys this year that would be solid choices.

Their passing game weapons left a lot to be desired. DeAndre Hopkins was unstoppable for most of the season, but Christian Kirk was extremely frustrating. Dan Arnold failed to make the necessary steps and Larry Fitzgerald has lost a step, and at 38 years old, with a limited role on offense, he should not have finished second on the team in receptions. Chase Edmonds, the back-up RB, was third. Aside from those three players, it was a frustrating bunch of players catching the football. On the bright side, it's a really young group overall. There's still hope that guys like Dan Arnold or Christian Kirk can just take the next step in a contract year, or even if someone else from their multitude of young receivers can step up, (Andy Isabella, Keesean Johnson, Trent Sherfield, Maxx Williams, or Darrell Daniels are all still yet to enter their prime). Overall, every receiver on the team, aside from Fitzgerald and Hopkins, is still under 25. There should be some level of natural progression.

Their defense was playoff-caliber. Part of it was just that it was hard to have consistency. A slew of injuries to the defense occurred about halfway throughout the season, and all of a sudden they didn't have the personnel to run some of those exotic looks that were working so well at times and disrupting offenses. Honestly, I thought Vance Joseph did an incredible job with the players he had. They had the 3rd-best red zone defense and held teams to a low 39% conversion rate. Hopefully the defense will get healthier this year. Patty P has lost a few steps, and he might leave. He's a really meaningful guy for this locker room, but he's also had a little bit of drama in recent years and was unhappy with playing here, so that combined with poor play means that I'm okay with him leaving. Chandler Jones is a monster and a fantastic leader, and I really hope he stays. I really like our edge rush, but we just haven't had everyone healthy. Retaining Haason Reddick is an absolute must. We still haven't been able to see much of a healthy Zach Allen, someone who the front office has been bullish on, and then we didn't really see Jordan Phillips, either. Both rookie DTs were awful, but it's not out of the question that they'll progress, as this year was a crapshoot for a lot of rookies. 

Overall, I really like our edge rush, LBs, and safety group. The corners were okay but could use an upgrade, and while the interior of the DL didn't perform very well and was injured, Vance Joseph did a masterful job as masking that with different personnel packages and interior blitzes. I honestly wouldn't really invest in an upgrade on the DL unless it was a sure thing, considering that we've drafted three DTs on day 2 over the past couple years, and we also have just had injury issues there. Overall, like I said, I really believe in this defense and in Vance. We're only a piece or two away, IMO. 3rd-best red zone D, 39% 3rd down rate.

Part of the issue is that we also had a 39% 3rd down rate on offense. We didn't really have any answers on third and long. Our best bets were when the defense made a mistake and let Nuk wreck them, or when Kyler was able to scramble for 12+ yards. Kirk was Mr. Dropsy, Dan Arnold flashed some seam ability but isn't there yet, and Fitz can't create separation beyond 10 yards anymore and he wasn't much of a separation guy in the first place. We really need some of these young guys to step up.

As far as our offensive line goes, I like it, honestly. DJ Humphries is a really good left tackle and has been nasty in the run game for a while. Justin Pugh is a very good guard. Justin Murray has played well, and hopefully he'll be the RG next year, while I thought Josh Jones was a round-1 tackle and like the idea of him starting moving forward. We're in desperate need of a competent center, though. 

Kyler was a good QB. He wasn't elite, but he was good. He needs to continue to work on his processing, but it has gotten better. There were quite a few times where he held onto the ball for too long, and there were also times where he bailed on plays with guys open downfield, settling for check-downs to Edmunds or Fitz. It's hard when your weapons fail to step up, but he still can get better about that. He also gets happy feet sometimes and that leads to sloppy throws. There were times when he was avoiding a rush that wasn't there and threw off his back foot. Overall, though, he's an accurate QB with fantastic athleticism and escapability and a strong arm. 

Honestly, I feel like we're only a couple pieces away from being a true contender. We really need a center, and I feel like even an okay center would be a massive improvement to middle of the OL. Lamont Galliard was an upgrade over Mason Cole when he got some chances this season, and this was only his second season in the league, but I'm not sure if he's the answer. A good complementary receiver would go to great lengths to improve the offense, and with so many young guys who have flashed but are just inconsistent, it's not out of the question that one of them could step up, find some consistency, and be that piece. If not, there are some options out there via the draft or free agency. Again, Hopkins is an elite alpha receiver. We just need a second guy on the team who can be counted on to reach at least 650 yards, something that didn't happen this past year. Finally, we could use an improvement at corner. Dre Kirkpatrick was good, Byron Murphy continues to develop. Maybe Murphy steps up and becomes the guy. Probably not, considering his frame and how badly he's been beaten at times, but he's also gone toe to toe with some of the league's better receivers and held them in check. Ideally, though, we'd be getting another corner.

Honestly, at all of the positions of weakness, there are potential solutions in our young guys. If we can just hit on one or two guys this off-season and the team stays mostly intact, I think we could surprise people. 

There's a natural line of progression here for both Kyler and Kliff as they enter year 3 in the NFL. They've both gotten better. The team as whole is still very young and has gotten better. We just need that trend to continue with a little bit of help, but yeah, I seriously think we could make waves next season. Do I think we'll win the Super Bowl? Nope. Would I be SURPRISED if we made a deep playoff run? Nope.

[MonserinNC]

If the Dolphins trade for Watson

And the Cardinals if Kyler Murray really puts the work in

[otg]

I believe the only eligible teams that have pulled it are the Eagles and Pats.

The Bengals have twice gone from missing the playoffs to playing in the Superb Owl. So congratulations Niners on winning LVI.

[HoboRocket]

20 hours ago, FrantikRam said:

 

Haven't seen anyone say that.

But no more Cardinals hype. Last year was too much. Murray for MVP, Cardinals will make the playoffs. Nope.

I know, it was ridiculous, right? The Cardinals fighting for a playoff spot in week 17 with Chris Streveler at QB was WAY off from them making the playoffs. 

And Murray... Don't get me started on Murray. 37 TDs, 4,790 yards of offense... What a pathetic effort. Did you see the part where he improved across the board? Like, in literally every single way? That was ridiculous. He clearly should have done much better.

Like, dudes, I will seriously be the first person to criticize Kyler Murray. I ate crow when I said that they shouldn't get him prior to the draft. He blew me away. But I still don't think he's perfect. I have even posted his flaws all over this site. Heck, I basically wrote a whole essay in the 9er forum talking about Murray's shortcomings. But he's still a really good QB.

He improved on his rookie season in literally every single way. His yards went up. His yards per attempt went up. His completion percentage went up. His interception percentage went down. His touchdown percentage went up. He threw 6 more TDs. He ran for 7 more TDs. His rushing yardage AND yards per attempt went up. His team's success went up.

Is he perfect yet? No. He's not an A+ QB. But I'd give 4,790 yards of offense and 37 TDs an A. That's more total yardage than Russell Wilson had in any season from 2015-2019. That's more yardage than Lamar Jackson has had in any season of his career. That's more TDs than Drew Brees had in 16 of his seasons in the league, including his first-team All-Pro season. Heck, that's more yards, a higher completion percentage, AND more TDs than Brees' 2006 All-Pro season. Heck, Deshaun Watson has yet to reach 37 TDs in a season.

So would I give Kyler Murray an A? Yes. From a skill-set standpoint, and production-wise, he's in rare company. Is he an A+ like Mahomes? No. But there are very few that I'd definitively rate ahead of him.

So what are his flaws? He's arrogant. He attempts off-platform throws when he doesn't need to sometimes. His deep ball is fine and his arm strength is great, but he can definitely improve on his downfield accuracy. Has he mastered the art of manipulating the defense yet? No. 

Comparing him apples-to-apples with other QBs, though, there are very, very few that I'd take over him. And that's not even factoring his contract into it.

Edited March 6, 2021 by HoboRocket

[FrantikRam]

1 hour ago, HoboRocket said:

I know, it was ridiculous, right? The Cardinals fighting for a playoff spot in week 17 with Chris Streveler at QB was WAY off from them making the playoffs. 

And Murray... Don't get me started on Murray. 37 TDs, 4,790 yards of offense... What a pathetic effort. Did you see the part where he improved across the board? Like, in literally every single way? That was ridiculous. He clearly should have done much better.

Like, dudes, I will seriously be the first person to criticize Kyler Murray. I ate crow when I said that they shouldn't get him prior to the draft. He blew me away. But I still don't think he's perfect. I have even posted his flaws all over this site. Heck, I basically wrote a whole essay in the 9er forum talking about Murray's shortcomings. But he's still a really good QB.

He improved on his rookie season in literally every single way. His yards went up. His yards per attempt went up. His completion percentage went up. His interception percentage went down. His touchdown percentage went up. He threw 6 more TDs. He ran for 7 more TDs. His rushing yardage AND yards per attempt went up. His team's success went up.

Is he perfect yet? No. He's not an A+ QB. But I'd give 4,790 yards of offense and 37 TDs an A. That's more total yardage than Russell Wilson had in any season from 2015-2019. That's more yardage than Lamar Jackson has had in any season of his career. That's more TDs than Drew Brees had in 16 of his seasons in the league, including his first-team All-Pro season. Heck, that's more yards, a higher completion percentage, AND more TDs than Brees' 2006 All-Pro season. Heck, Deshaun Watson has yet to reach 37 TDs in a season.

So would I give Kyler Murray an A? Yes. From a skill-set standpoint, and production-wise, he's in rare company. Is he an A+ like Mahomes? No. But there are very few that I'd definitively rate ahead of him.

So what are his flaws? He's arrogant. He attempts off-platform throws when he doesn't need to sometimes. His deep ball is fine and his arm strength is great, but he can definitely improve on his downfield accuracy. Has he mastered the art of manipulating the defense yet? No. 

Comparing him apples-to-apples with other QBs, though, there are very, very few that I'd take over him. And that's not even factoring his contract into it.

 

Well, you're a Cardinals fan so that's to be expected. After McVays first year or two, I said the same thing about Goff. In fact, after the Rams beat the Chiefs on MNF and Mahomes had five turnovers, I wouldn't have traded Goff for him straight up.

Thing with Murray is that while he doesn't miss games, he gets dinged up - and when he doesn't run, he's just not effective. Even factoring in how successful he was running the ball, and had an elite WR, and better protection than I realized (their OL appears to be better than I thought) - he was a below average passer.

Let's go down the list:

Y/A - 22nd behind Cam and Goff

Passer rating - 18th

Yards - 13th

TDs - tied for 13th

Completion percentage - 11th

INTs - 6th most

QBR (which factors in rushing) - 14th

 

And total TDs? Herbert had 36, Cousins had 36, Watson had 36, 5 players had more than 40.

Seemed to be in the water this year.

Murray is tough and plays through it - but he's not good enough a passer yet to be thought of that highly. He might get there - and he has to - because him running the ball, he won't last. Cardinals fans say "he's started every game!" - but either he's less effective playing through injuries, or he's just awful sometimes.

[HoboRocket]

3 minutes ago, FrantikRam said:

 

Well, you're a Cardinals fan so that's to be expected. After McVays first year or two, I said the same thing about Goff. In fact, after the Rams beat the Chiefs on MNF and Mahomes had five turnovers, I wouldn't have traded Goff for him straight up.

Thing with Murray is that while he doesn't miss games, he gets dinged up - and when he doesn't run, he's just not effective. Even factoring in how successful he was running the ball, and had an elite WR, and better protection than I realized (their OL appears to be better than I thought) - he was a below average passer.

Let's go down the list:

Y/A - 22nd behind Cam and Goff

Passer rating - 18th

Yards - 13th

TDs - tied for 13th

Completion percentage - 11th

INTs - 6th most

QBR (which factors in rushing) - 14th

 

And total TDs? Herbert had 36, Cousins had 36, Watson had 36, 5 players had more than 40.

Seemed to be in the water this year.

Murray is tough and plays through it - but he's not good enough a passer yet to be thought of that highly. He might get there - and he has to - because him running the ball, he won't last. Cardinals fans say "he's started every game!" - but either he's less effective playing through injuries, or he's just awful sometimes.

Ha. I remember Goff vs Mahomes. That Kansas City - LA matchup was on my birthday. Honestly, Goff was in the MVP discussion at times in 2018. I remember TurfShowTimes having really lively debates about whether he was truly elite or just a product of McVay. I nearly bought the "System QB" shirt. 

And ultimately, you're absolutely right. Murray is an unfinished product. I think there are a lot of fair comparisons to be made between Murray and early-career Wilson. Wilson had to develop as a passer and he did, ultimately changing the way he played once he got that MCL injury in 2016. Murray is tough as nails, like Wilson, but yeah, he's not very good when he's injured. 

And the offensive line was able to play better than it was in part due to Murray. But they had to have been rated as one of the very worst run-blocking interiors in football last season. One of the worst interiors in general. Pugh is an above-average left guard. Mason Cole and JR Sweezy are both awful. Kelvin Beachum was a solid RT, and DJ Humphries is a good LT. 

I guess I'm misjudging when I say that the Cards' OL is going to be above average this year because Sweezy and Beachum are both leaving and Cole is the guy that we need replaced more than anyone. We'll be keeping our two best OL. The plan, at least as far as my perception goes, is that Josh Jones is going to play RT after redshirting last year, and that Justin Murray will continue at RG after he took over late in the year and played better than Sweezy. 

We absolutely need to upgrade the offensive roster, though. I think that's what I touched on in my original post. They had a playoff-caliber offense by scoring and yardage metrics, but one of the worst offensive rosters in the league. I flinch when I imagine what it would have been like if they hadn't traded for Hopkins.

Literally nobody besides DeAndre Hopkins even reached 700 yards last season. And they had a "good" rushing offense, but most of that was from Murray running for 800+ yards at 6.2 yards per carry. The interior got no push and Kenyan Drake's production was not very good. And if I was rating the OL on a scale of 1-10 individually, the Cards would have gotten a 23 out of 50, with DJ Humphries carrying an 8, and the rest combining for a 15. 

I guess I'm just optimistic that if they were able to put up numbers with that group, then they'll be significantly better this year. I'm thinking that Josh Jones will be an upgrade over Beachum or at least play at a similar level, while we already know that Justin Murray is a significant upgrade at RG. Then the question is center. And of course the other four skill players besides Hopkins.

[Hunter2_1]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:20 AM, kramxel said:

Why is everyone saying Pats? 

They have no offense. 

Look at teams that were in the playoff run or teams with above average rosters, like Cowboys (defense may have some concerns), Cards (a couple of pieces away), 49ers (without half the roster on IR)... 

 

Everyone?

These are mentions so far;

 

Miami x 3

Vegas x 1

NE x 2

Arizona x 3

San Fran x 6

Dallas x 4

Denver x 1

Min x 1

LAC x 1

Carolina x 1

 

 

two people said NE 😅

[DerbyRam]

On 3/5/2021 at 3:21 AM, FrantikRam said:

 

The only guy we will miss is John Johnson.

We've made a habit of red shirting guys - so Brycen Hopkins not getting snaps last year doesn't mean much. Everett dropped an insane number of passes this year for a part time player, so this won't be a drop off.

Van Jefferson will be better than Josh Reynolds. Not remotely concerned about Reynolds leaving (no other Rams fan is either).

Malcolm Brown is the third RB.

Ebukam has done very, very little outside of a random two TD game on MNF.

I like Troy Hill but we likely already have a NCB on the roster to take over him.

Leonard Floyd will owe Aaron Donald 70% of his contract. Ask Falcons fans how Dante Fowler is doing for that $16 million contract. Well sign another edge rusher who has disappointed and he will magically reach 10 sacks.

Rams will be under the cap by restructuring some contracts - last year it felt like we'd have no money to spend but signed multiple FAs. Don't expect that much activity but I do expect a WR and EDGE, possibly a C

We draft a year in advance for needs - we drafted Burgess/Fuller to prepare for John Johnson leaving, Hopkins for Everett, Jefferson for Reynolds. The only really good player that will be leaving is JJ. That's a concern. He called the defense last year and I'd consider tagging him since safeties are pretty cheap to tag. If not hoping that Burgess can step up, but our defense will surely fall off next year.

The good news is that with Stafford, Akers and Jefferson after their rookie years, along with Woods and Kupp, should return to a top 5 offense.

It'll be interesting to see what were able to do in free agency - if we're able to get a vet C, a WR (for depth) and an EDGE that would shore up almost every position before the draft

I don't see how we don't at least tag John Johnson for this season. I think he's really the only player that's irreplaceable. I really liked what Floyd did this season, but I really liked what Fowler did last year too. Terrell Lewis could be the guy this year, will certainly be using him a lot more, but I'd imagine you're right. We will find another guy who has flashed elsewhere but not lived up to it who can spend a year next to Aaron Donald on a cut price salary to then earn $15-20m next year. I honestly think someone like Clowney NEEDS a year next to Donald to rebuild his reputation. I like the idea of Lawson, Reddick or Okwara too. 

[Shady Slim]

which team with a team that is super bowl quality everywhere except signal caller could sign a top 15 signal caller with extensive playoff experience to get over the hump eh?

the rams are probably the only team that fits such a narrow superlative - stafford i'd say is a better man under centre than brady rn but brady has that elite experience