Matthews & Cobb Contracts

[incognito_man]

6 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

I'm gonna do a pressure breakdown on the All 22 when it's out.  Seems to me lately that Perry is very hampered by his Club.  Daniels isn't quite there yet either, and Fackrell is a freaking joke of a player.

I've seen some good things from Clay.  They are using him really well.  Gotta say I wasn't impressed with his fumble return.

if the biggest knock on CMIII is "his fumble return wasn't impressive" I think we should keep keeping him around

[skibrett15]

Just now, incognito_man said:

if the biggest knock on CMIII is "his fumble return wasn't impressive" I think we should keep keeping him around

yeah, that's kind of the joke.  But he kind of butchered it

[TheOnlyThing]

Through 1/2 of the season, Clay has played 79% of the defensive snaps.

He has 2.5 sacks.

That is good for tied for 74th in the NFL (8 of the other 32 teams have played 9 games).

Clay has the 3rd highest salary cap value ($15.075M) among OLBs in 2017, behind Justin Houston (7.5 sacks) and Von Miller (8 sacks).

The following players are among those who have more sacks than Clay right now: Julius Peppers (7.5), Carl Lawson (4.5), Jabal Sheard (4.5), Connor Barwin (4), TJ Watt (4), Demario Davis (3.5), Elvis Dumervil (3.5), Alex Okafor (3.5), Dwight Freeney (3), Chris Long (3), and John Simon (3).

I believe all of them were either veteran free agents who signed with new teams since last season or were available for the Packers to select during the last draft. None of them cost anywhere near what Clay does against the cap.  

Matthews cap number is $11.4M in 2018. The team incurs ZERO dead money and wipes away that $11.4M if he is cut.

I love what Clay Matthews has done for the Packers in his time in Green Bay.

However, unless he discovers the fountain of youth during the second half of this season, there is no way a 32 year old Matthews should be on the Packers roster unless he agrees to a deep pay cut (>50%).

[MacReady]

Just now, TheOnlyThing said:

However, unless he discovers the fountain of youth during the second half of this season, there is no way a 32 year old Matthews should be on the Packers roster unless he agrees to a deep pay cut (>50%).

We didn't pay a 37 year old player this offseason and he has 7.5 sacks right now.  Everybody's so quick to blame Capers for a crap scheme, and yet so quick to blame Matthews for not getting pressure.  He's still a top 100 player in this league and you don't just cut those players when you don't have a better player to replace him.  There are a dozen things that could happen to our defense and to what's expected of Matthews next year to make that 11 million dollars well worth it.  You act like 2.5 sacks is bad, and it is, but it's not so bad when it leads our team. 

Maybe... Just a thought... But maybe Matthews has 2.5 sacks because our entire pass rush sucks. 

And I really don't understand why people are so concerned with money.  Who cares if Matthews is getting paid 11 million dollars?  We're not spending it on outside players, so what frickin difference does it make if he gets paid 11 million or not? 

Cutting or keeping Matthews makes absolutely zero difference as to what we do this coming offseason.  I'd rather keep an all-pro talent and hope our new coordinator can find a way to use him better than cut him and see him have a resurgence with the Steelers or Patriots, because God knows he would in either of those places. 

[cooters22]

Veteran leadership is worth something too. So instead of just cutting Matthews, Cobb and I'm throwing Bryan Bulaga in the mix after the season, I'd first ask for a 50% restructure on all 3. I'd tell them hey this is what we have to do, and give them a take it or leave it ultimatum. I doubt Matthews would take it, but the other two given the state they are in just might. And let's not do a restructure like we did with AJ Hawk where we basically restructured but gave him it all back in guarantees. Green Bay never really does this and I don't know why. I still wish we would have done this with Woodson. He publicly came out and stated that he wished they would have, but instead just cut him. But yeah I'm on board with their is no way in heck we can pay Matthews, Cobb or Bulaga close to what their contracts call for next season. 

[cooters22]

5 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

We didn't pay a 37 year old player this offseason and he has 7.5 sacks right now.  Everybody's so quick to blame Capers for a crap scheme, and yet so quick to blame Matthews for not getting pressure.  He's still a top 100 player in this league and you don't just cut those players when you don't have a better player to replace him.  There are a dozen things that could happen to our defense and to what's expected of Matthews next year to make that 11 million dollars well worth it.  You act like 2.5 sacks is bad, and it is, but it's not so bad when it leads our team. 

Maybe... Just a thought... But maybe Matthews has 2.5 sacks because our entire pass rush sucks. 

And I really don't understand why people are so concerned with money.  Who cares if Matthews is getting paid 11 million dollars?  We're not spending it on outside players, so what frickin difference does it make if he gets paid 11 million or not? 

Cutting or keeping Matthews makes absolutely zero difference as to what we do this coming offseason.  I'd rather keep an all-pro talent and hope our new coordinator can find a way to use him better than cut him and see him have a resurgence with the Steelers or Patriots, because God knows he would in either of those places. 

I'm sorry but I personally don't see Matthews as a top 100 player in this league. He's not even top ten right now on our team. 

[MacReady]

Just now, cooters22 said:

I'm sorry but I personally don't see Matthews as a top 100 player in this league. He's not even top ten right now on our team. 

Then you're personally wrong.  As a pass rusher he's probably not a top talent, but you're kinda dumb if you don't think he has top 100 talent in this league all things  considered.  And your apology is personally offending because you're looking at his bad year pass rushing on a horrible pass rushing team as some sort of indictment against him when literally everybody on defense looks to him, a pass rusher, when they're confused.  If you don't think he's a top 10 player on this team, you need to get over your dislike for him and watch his Cowboys game.  If you have a borderline, basic, elementary understanding of how football works and you can't see what he brings to this team based on his performance in that game, there's no hope for you and you should stop watching football. 

This is exactly what's wrong with some people here.  They spend all their time bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning ad nauseum about Dom Capers, and then they don't stop to think about what our players could be if we had a different coordinator who would use our players differently.  Put Clay Matthews next to Von Miller in the Broncos defense and he's a 12.5 sack player.  Use him as a situational pass rusher on a top defense that doesn't have a secondary that can't communicate and he's going to the pro bowl.  Put him at ILB in a 3-4 or on the outside in a 4-3 and he's an all-pro player. 

But noooooooooooooo, he only has 2.5 sacks (which leads the team that's second to last in sacks) and he's not a top 10 player on the team or top 100 player in the league. 

[cooters22]

3 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Then you're personally wrong.  As a pass rusher he's probably not a top talent, but you're kinda dumb if you don't think he has top 100 talent in this league all things  considered.  And your apology is personally offending because you're looking at his bad year pass rushing on a horrible pass rushing team as some sort of indictment against him when literally everybody on defense looks to him, a pass rusher, when they're confused.  If you don't think he's a top 10 player on this team, you need to get over your dislike for him and watch his Cowboys game.  If you have a borderline, basic, elementary understanding of how football works and you can't see what he brings to this team based on his performance in that game, there's no hope for you and you should stop watching football. 

This is exactly what's wrong with some people here.  They spend all their time bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning ad nauseum about Dom Capers, and then they don't stop to think about what our players could be if we had a different coordinator who would use our players differently.  Put Clay Matthews next to Von Miller in the Broncos defense and he's a 12.5 sack player.  Use him as a situational pass rusher on a top defense that doesn't have a secondary that can't communicate and he's going to the pro bowl.  Put him at ILB in a 3-4 or on the outside in a 4-3 and he's an all-pro player. 

But noooooooooooooo, he only has 2.5 sacks (which leads the team that's second to last in sacks) and he's not a top 10 player on the team or top 100 player in the league. 

You can kiss my *** for calling me dumb. You can disagree with me, that is what a forumn is for. But there is no reason for name calling. 

[MacReady]

Just now, cooters22 said:

You can kiss my *** for calling me dumb. You can disagree with me, that is what a forumn is for. But there is no reason for name calling. 

I didn't call you dumb, I said If... Then.  And name the ten players on this team that are better than Clay Matthews. 

[TheOnlyThing]

35 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Then you're personally wrong.  As a pass rusher he's probably not a top talent, but you're kinda dumb if you don't think he has top 100 talent in this league all things  considered.  And your apology is personally offending because you're looking at his bad year pass rushing on a horrible pass rushing team as some sort of indictment against him when literally everybody on defense looks to him, a pass rusher, when they're confused.  If you don't think he's a top 10 player on this team, you need to get over your dislike for him and watch his Cowboys game.  If you have a borderline, basic, elementary understanding of how football works and you can't see what he brings to this team based on his performance in that game, there's no hope for you and you should stop watching football. 

This is exactly what's wrong with some people here.  They spend all their time bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning ad nauseum about Dom Capers, and then they don't stop to think about what our players could be if we had a different coordinator who would use our players differently.  Put Clay Matthews next to Von Miller in the Broncos defense and he's a 12.5 sack player.  Use him as a situational pass rusher on a top defense that doesn't have a secondary that can't communicate and he's going to the pro bowl.  Put him at ILB in a 3-4 or on the outside in a 4-3 and he's an all-pro player. 

But noooooooooooooo, he only has 2.5 sacks (which leads the team that's second to last in sacks) and he's not a top 10 player on the team or top 100 player in the league. 

Aside from the unnecessary and unwarranted personal attacks, there is so much that is factually incorrect in the above post it is hard to know where to begin, but I'll try.

First, Clay's slippage as a pass rusher is not a suddenly new phenomenon that only began during the first 8 games of 2017.

He had 5 sacks total in 2016.

And only 6.5 in 2015.

Second, you don't pay a situational pass rushers top 3 money among all OLBs. That is a terrible distribution of resources.

Third, the notion that if Clay were to be converted to a 4-3 outside linebacker he would be "an all-pro player" is so laughable I half wonder if you are just pulling everyone's chain.

Fourth and finally, no matter how many times you type it and no matter how condescendingly you phrase it, your assertion that Clay leads the Packers in sacks is simply false.

Nick Perry currently has 4 sacks and has been the team leader in sacks every week this season. (Though Clay does maintain his 1/2 sack lead over Josh Jones for second on the team).

[cooters22]

6 minutes ago, HorizontoZenith said:

I didn't call you dumb, I said If... Then.  And name the ten players on this team that are better than Clay Matthews. 

Aaron Rodgers,  Jordy Nelson, Devante Adams,  David Bakhtiari, Lane Taylor, Aaron Jones, Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, Morgan Burnett, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. Oh and by the way these are all opinions,  but to me these 10 guys are easily producing right here and now better than Clay. Hey I like Clay, hope he retires as a Packer, but he is one of the bigger reasons overall why our defense is so bad,  2.5 sacks from a position that all you do is rush the qb is horrible and not worth 5 million a season much less 11.4.

[TransientTexan]

3 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said:

And I really don't understand why people are so concerned with money.  Who cares if Matthews is getting paid 11 million dollars?  We're not spending it on outside players, so what frickin difference does it make if he gets paid 11 million or not? 

If you've followed the cap since the SB, they spend cap space when they have it. You can roll it over to another year if you don't want to spend it in a particular year, but it still gets spent eventually, which is all that matters. They have brought in "outside players" before. People should care how much guys are paid relative to what they are producing. 

[MacReady]

Just now, TransientTexan said:

If you've followed the cap since the SB, they spend cap space when they have it. You can roll it over to another year if you don't want to spend it in a particular year, but it still gets spent eventually, which is all that matters. They have brought in "outside players" before. People should care how much guys are paid relative to what they are producing. 

Right, and Matthews is currently leading the team in sacks.  So...

You can't fault him for sucking as a pass rusher when the entire team is sucking at pass rushing.  He had 5 sacks in like 8 healthy games last year when Peppers was here.  He had 6.5 in 2015 when he was an inside linebacker.  The last year he was fully healthy and a pass rusher he ha 11 sacks... And he played half that year at inslide linebacker. 

He's worth 11 million as a player on this team and I haven't seen any evidence to suggest otherwise.  Full time pass rusher no, but if we get a new defensive coordinator that decides to use him effectively, he's absolutely worth 11 million to us next year in a handful of ways. 

[jleisher]

6 hours ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Through 1/2 of the season, Clay has played 79% of the defensive snaps.

He has 2.5 sacks.

That is good for tied for 74th in the NFL (8 of the other 32 teams have played 9 games).

Clay has the 3rd highest salary cap value ($15.075M) among OLBs in 2017, behind Justin Houston (7.5 sacks) and Von Miller (8 sacks).

The following players are among those who have more sacks than Clay right now: Julius Peppers (7.5), Carl Lawson (4.5), Jabal Sheard (4.5), Connor Barwin (4), TJ Watt (4), Demario Davis (3.5), Elvis Dumervil (3.5), Alex Okafor (3.5), Dwight Freeney (3), Chris Long (3), and John Simon (3).

I believe all of them were either veteran free agents who signed with new teams since last season or were available for the Packers to select during the last draft. None of them cost anywhere near what Clay does against the cap.  

Matthews cap number is $11.4M in 2018. The team incurs ZERO dead money and wipes away that $11.4M if he is cut.

I love what Clay Matthews has done for the Packers in his time in Green Bay.

However, unless he discovers the fountain of youth during the second half of this season, there is no way a 32 year old Matthews should be on the Packers roster unless he agrees to a deep pay cut (>50%).

11.4 million in added cap space?  Cut him, cut him nooooooooow!

[jleisher]

5 hours ago, cooters22 said:

Aaron Rodgers,  Jordy Nelson, Devante Adams,  David Bakhtiari, Lane Taylor, Aaron Jones, Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels, Morgan Burnett, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. Oh and by the way these are all opinions,  but to me these 10 guys are easily producing right here and now better than Clay. Hey I like Clay, hope he retires as a Packer, but he is one of the bigger reasons overall why our defense is so bad,  2.5 sacks from a position that all you do is rush the qb is horrible and not worth 5 million a season much less 11.4.

Well put!