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The "supporting cast" argument


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"He's only good because of his supporting cast!"

Why do people use this crap? It's completely asinine.

Take for example Super Bowl LV. I think we can all safely agree that Patrick Mahomes is one of, if not the, best quarterback in the league. However, he had a bad game because of offensive line injuries. No one is going to be stupid enough to say "See look! He's nothing without a supporting cast!"

Or look at Brady. He looked washed in 2019 because N'Keal Harry couldn't separation from a drunk hobo, but once he got some help in Tampa he was back to normal. No one in their right mind would contnue to say he's a system quarterback.

Edited by biggie.
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I've been wondering this for years with Matt Ryan. He has everyone say that he has such an amazing supporting cast, but that supporting cast is also elevated by his play. It's a two-way street. Tyreek Hill wouldn't be as good as he is without Mahomes. Calvin needed Stafford to go to Detroit to reach his full potential. 

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10 minutes ago, scar988 said:

I've been wondering this for years with Matt Ryan. He has everyone say that he has such an amazing supporting cast, but that supporting cast is also elevated by his play. It's a two-way street. Tyreek Hill wouldn't be as good as he is without Mahomes. Calvin needed Stafford to go to Detroit to reach his full potential. 

If you have a good quarterback, then you should...*gasp* build around him!

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Eh, it’s all about balance. There are/were definitely some players that got overrated because of their play in absolutely ideal (or close to it) environments, or conversely, got underrated because of their poor play surrounded by JAGs. Probably does get overstated though.

Edited by Yin-Yang
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Brady  leading that Pats to the 11th overall offense in DVOA in 2019 is one of the best accomplishments of his career

Edited by CP3MVP
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9 hours ago, biggie. said:

"He's only good because of his supporting cast!"

Why do people use this crap? It's completely asinine.

Take for example Super Bowl LV. I think we can all safely agree that Patrick Mahomes is one of, if not the, best quarterback in the league. However, he had a bad game because of offensive line injuries. No one is going to be stupid enough to say "See look! He's nothing without a supporting cast!"

Or look at Brady. He looked washed in 2019 because N'Keal Harry couldn't separation from a drunk hobo, but once he got some help in Tampa he was back to normal. No one in their right mind would contnue to say he's a system quarterback.

  • Mahomes DID look bad, and it WAS because his supporting cast overall failed him
  • Compare 2019 Brady to 2020 Brady and tell me supporting cast wasn't the difference

I'm not saying all QBs are interchangeable, but supporting cast DOES matter. In the vast majority of cases a B+ QB with a phenomenal supporting cast will look like an A QB, and an A QB with a crappy supporting cast will look like a B+ QB

It's not one or the other.. it requires both to be successful

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9 hours ago, biggie. said:

If you have a good quarterback, then you should...*gasp* build around him!

Exactly. It's like Ryan gets penalized because Thomas Dimitroff did his job.

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2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Eh, it’s all about balance. There are/were definitely some players that got overrated because of their play in absolutely ideal (or close to it) environments, or conversely, got underrated because of their poor play surrounded by JAGs. Probably does get overstated though.

I'd argue this works for WRs too. Because Allen Robinson is a top 5-7 WR in the league talent wise, but he's had Blake Bortles and Mitch Trubisky as his QBs.

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2 hours ago, scar988 said:

I'd argue this works for WRs too. Because Allen Robinson is a top 5-7 WR in the league talent wise, but he's had Blake Bortles and Mitch Trubisky as his QBs.

100%. Not just QBs. WRs are a big one, see it a lot on the defensive side too. 

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I think it has to involve both, while having a capable qb it makes them look better by having a team that can block for him and a wr to catch for him. Case in point is Josh Allen, everyone saying he was garbage and won't succeed in the league then he gets an oline year 2 and a couple of weapons he took a step forward. Then year 3 they get an upgrade on oline and Stefon Diggs all of a sudden he is being discussed as MVP. Well he has the talent to be good but was only able to show case it when he had good players around him to support his progress. Now look at a team like the Jets who drafted Sam Darnold same year as Allen, he was thrown in to a position where they weren't good with no oline nor real weapons from day 1 and he still doesnt have an upgraded oline nor solid weapons and he is now being claimed as a bust and the Jets need to move on from him. So is he a complete bust or is it because he does not have a supporting cast around him to allow him to grow? So I think the player has to be talented and I think the supporting cast allows them to grow to the best of their ability if not then they will simply be dealt a bad hand and labeled a bust. 

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