deeluxx3 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 50 minutes ago, titans0021 said: He’s a perfectly serviceable safety. Nothing more, but it’s not a premium position and we have a roster that is littered with holes. How can you be so sure? Being a serviceable spot starter (Hooker, Borders) is a lot different than being THE starter. Hooker has never really impressed me. A couple nice plays here and there, for sure, but anyone who thinks he can definitely come in and make the impact that prime Vaccaro did is kidding themselves. He may turn out to be a long-term solve for us. I have my doubts. Look no further than our playoff win against Baltimore last year to confirm how important great safety...and overall DB play...is. "Premium position" be damned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: How can you be so sure? Being a serviceable spot starter (Hooker, Borders) is a lot different than being THE starter. Hooker has never really impressed me. A couple nice plays here and there, for sure, but anyone who thinks he can definitely come in and make the impact that prime Vaccaro did is kidding themselves. He may turn out to be a long-term solve for us. I have my doubts. Look no further than our playoff win against Baltimore last year to confirm how important great safety...and overall DB play...is. "Premium position" be damned. Well it's just that you can't afford to get top players at every spot. Or Just highly unlikely to scout that well. You need your stars to be stars and your servicaeable starters to to make plays when called upon and not mess up routinely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: How can you be so sure? Being a serviceable spot starter (Hooker, Borders) is a lot different than being THE starter. Hooker has never really impressed me. A couple nice plays here and there, for sure, but anyone who thinks he can definitely come in and make the impact that prime Vaccaro did is kidding themselves. He may turn out to be a long-term solve for us. I have my doubts. Look no further than our playoff win against Baltimore last year to confirm how important great safety...and overall DB play...is. "Premium position" be damned. lol come on man. "He may turn out to be a long-term solve for us. I have my doubts." precisely one hour after "here's a hard dose of reality tho. Hooker ain't it." if you come with a take as strong as that, the burden is on you to defend it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 46 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: How can you be so sure? Being a serviceable spot starter (Hooker, Borders) is a lot different than being THE starter. Hooker has never really impressed me. A couple nice plays here and there, for sure, but anyone who thinks he can definitely come in and make the impact that prime Vaccaro did is kidding themselves. He may turn out to be a long-term solve for us. I have my doubts. Look no further than our playoff win against Baltimore last year to confirm how important great safety...and overall DB play...is. "Premium position" be damned. First, Vaccaro was always just a serviceable safety. Never a real difference maker, but not a liability, and that’s fine. We’ve seen plenty of Hooker. It’s almost 800 defensive snaps in two years. He’s shown to be fine. Much like Vaccaro, not a difference maker, but that’s not his role anyways. With the exception of the Seahawks, very few teams have invested heavily in both safety spots. Because typically only one plays a truly vital role in the pass game. We’ve invested heavily in that safety (though he was a mess last year), the guy next to him is unlikely to be a star. You're not going to have great players at every position (or in our case, any position), so you live with just alright guys at certain spots. One of those is almost always second safety (I hesitate to even use the strong safety label since it’s a position that barely exists anymore). It’s what Vaccaro was throughout his time here, he just had a coordinator that played him to his strengths the first couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, -Hope- said: lol come on man. "He may turn out to be a long-term solve for us. I have my doubts." precisely one hour after "here's a hard dose of reality tho. Hooker ain't it." if you come with a take as strong as that, the burden is on you to defend it OK Judge Judy Isaiah Wilson may turn out to be a long-term solve for Miami. I have my doubts on that, too. I don't have a crystal ball Hooker is small, doesn't thump like Vaccaro could at his best, and is going to be a 3rd year player likely supporting the side of the field where Fulton will mostly line-up. While having to support basically a rookie is out of his control, it's just going to make his job that much harder. Hooker has never stepped into a game and 'removed' a single player from offense with his coverage so, without being a clear asset in run support (which he isn't), we're dealing with a starting safety who will now be tasked to step up more in the pass game (esp if Brown leaves) and hasn't shown many glimpses of being a great coverage guy yet. We're rolling the dice that he improves there. A couple INTs doesn't make a strong coverage safety. Hooker has just been....there. Not hurting or helping. That's a problem to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeluxx3 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, titans0021 said: First, Vaccaro was always just a serviceable safety. Never a real difference maker, but not a liability, and that’s fine. We’ve seen plenty of Hooker. It’s almost 800 defensive snaps in two years. He’s shown to be fine. Much like Vaccaro, not a difference maker, but that’s not his role anyways. With the exception of the Seahawks, very few teams have invested heavily in both safety spots. Because typically only one plays a truly vital role in the pass game. We’ve invested heavily in that safety (though he was a mess last year), the guy next to him is unlikely to be a star. You're not going to have great players at every position (or in our case, any position), so you live with just alright guys at certain spots. One of those is almost always second safety (I hesitate to even use the strong safety label since it’s a position that barely exists anymore). It’s what Vaccaro was throughout his time here, he just had a coordinator that played him to his strengths the first couple years. I think you're underestimating/under-appreciating the high level of safety play that Vaccaro brought in 2018-19. Only dude on the team to BRING THE WOOD. Tone setter and difference maker. Those guys have impacts. I'm not saying we need to keep every guy. I understand the realities of the NFL. Not every guy is going to be a big contributor. But Hooker has been a ghost for the majority of those 800 snaps. Go look at 800 of Vaccaro's 18-19 snaps and you'll see a guy who was much, much more involved thank Hooker has ever been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titans0021 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: I think you're underestimating/under-appreciating the high level of safety play that Vaccaro brought in 2018-19. Only dude on the team to BRING THE WOOD. Tone setter and difference maker. Those guys have impacts. I'm not saying we need to keep every guy. I understand the realities of the NFL. Not every guy is going to be a big contributor. But Hooker has been a ghost for the majority of those 800 snaps. Go look at 800 of Vaccaro's 18-19 snaps and you'll see a guy who was much, much more involved thank Hooker has ever been I just don’t agree. Vaccaro was a box safety, a competent one sure, but just a box safety that was very fortunate to be paired with an elite coverage safety. We saw what happened the second he didn’t have Pees hiding him in coverage and Byard playing all over the field. The tone setting stuff has just never meant much to me. He was a good tackler and a quality player, which we needed and probably looked better in comparison because he took over for Cyprien. But he wasn’t special. He’s as good as the players you surround him with. Doesn’t tank the team, doesn’t lift the team. If Byard returns to his previous form, Hooker is certainly capable of playing the second safety and big nickel role at a fine level. If Byard is garbage again, we have far bigger things to worry about than Amani Hooker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hope- Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, deeluxx3 said: OK Judge Judy Isaiah Wilson may turn out to be a long-term solve for Miami. I have my doubts on that, too. I don't have a crystal ball hey, all i'm saying is i don't see the point in coming in hot with an opinion if you're just going to walk it back to "well i'm not so sure." Quote Hooker is small kevin byard: 5'11" 212 kenny vaccaro: 6'0" 214 amani hooker: 5'11" 210 small? Quote doesn't thump like Vaccaro could at his best this is true, of course Quote and is going to be a 3rd year player likely supporting the side of the field where Fulton will mostly line-up. While having to support basically a rookie is out of his control, it's just going to make his job that much harder. we move our safeties and corners around enough that i wouldn't say this is the case at all. Quote Hooker has never stepped into a game and 'removed' a single player from offense with his coverage so, without being a clear asset in run support (which he isn't), we're dealing with a starting safety who will now be tasked to step up more in the pass game (esp if Brown leaves) and hasn't shown many glimpses of being a great coverage guy yet. We're rolling the dice that he improves there. A couple INTs doesn't make a strong coverage safety. Hooker has just been....there. Not hurting or helping. That's a problem to me. sometimes you have to put your young players in a position to sink or swim! that's the nature of fielding an nfl team. nobody's going to have proven difference makers at every position on the field. we've had young guys like nate davis and jayon brown get put into that position and rise to the occasion, and we've had other guys who haven't. it's not a problem, it's a basic element of team-building in the nfl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 I knew Vaccaro lost a step, but it was VERY clear when he picked up that fumble against the Browns and looked like he was running in mud. He ran a 4.6 at the combine and looked like he runs a 4.9/5.0 right about now. Good tackler and leader but he has aged to the point where he couldn't play safety the way we needed him. Butler was slower too. Our whole secondary was slow. King runs a 4.6 or something like that. Byard ran a 4.4, but doesnt feel like he is that fast either. Our secondary needed an overhaul to a degree and that's just how it is. You don't be as bad as we were and not make changes. Unless of course you are a DC. lol You get to keep your job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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