swede700 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 14 hours ago, babababa said: It's also too soon to say he's legit. True, but you appear to have already said he's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, swede700 said: True, but you appear to have already said he's not. At the end of the day, I don’t think having Wonnum or Weatherly should prevent the team from adding another edge rusher if there’s great value. The Vikes were one of the worst teams in the league at getting after the QB. That is the biggest problem with the team right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, vikingsrule said: At the end of the day, I don’t think having Wonnum or Weatherly should prevent the team from adding another edge rusher if there’s great value. The Vikes were one of the worst teams in the league at getting after the QB. That is the biggest problem with the team right now. It was last year. They are getting two DL back, while losing an OL.... so I'd say OL is a bigger issue right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Just now, PrplChilPill said: It was last year. They are getting two DL back, while losing an OL.... so I'd say OL is a bigger issue right now. Will see on Hunter and Pierce isn’t much of a pass rusher, so not sure who will be out there in nickel packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 22 hours ago, Cearbhall said: I have no problem saying that offensive line is a bigger need right now than the defensive line. To me, it isn't even close. Going into the draft with the current defensive line wouldn't be a complete cluster, but if the Vikings are heading into the draft with the current offensive line heads should roll. I am not ready to say anything about what I think the team should do at any point in the draft. Let's see how free agency goes. Ideally, the glaring holes on the offensive line will be filled with something or another before the draft. Ideally the team can draft for value instead of being forced to draft either of the lines. 2 guards need to be replaced. (I guess they could keep Cleveland at Guard, but I doubt it -- his skill-set and value is much better suited at OT) 1 DE needs to be replaced. 1` DT needs to be replaced. (Tom, **** and Harry agree) Does this sound right? Because that was my previously bolded point -- and this goes to everyone. Obviously FA changes things. But can we all agree that DE is the premium position of need here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, babababa said: Obviously FA changes things. But can we all agree that DE is the premium position of need here? No, depending upon where you're putting emphasis in the phrase you utilized... Is DE a premium position in the NFL? Yes. Is DE a need on the team? Yes, but not the premium position of need in comparison to OG and 3T. For me, a DE in the hierarchy of needs (at least in NFL team terms) falls below OG, 3T, and S (in that order). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, babababa said: 2 guards need to be replaced. (I guess they could keep Cleveland at Guard, but I doubt it -- his skill-set and value is much better suited at OT) 1 DE needs to be replaced. 1` DT needs to be replaced. (Tom, **** and Harry agree) Does this sound right? Because that was my previously bolded point -- and this goes to everyone. Obviously FA changes things. But can we all agree that DE is the premium position of need here? No, that doesn't sound right to me. I would say the team has an immediate need of 2 offensive linemen. The team could use an upgrade of two defensive linemen. I could be talked into the DT being almost as vital as the two offensive linemen because while Stephen is better than Samia, arguing levels of bad becomes somewhat pointless after a certain level. Still, going into the season with Stephen as the starter probably doesn't get someone fired. Going into the season with Samia as the starter should get someone fired. And the Samia position is comparing the better of the two offensive line positions. DE is a position that can be upgraded and the team absolutely should be looking at opportunities to do that because it is a premium position. However, I wouldn't put that above looking for opportunities to upgrade the QB position. QB is my top priority. If there is a guy that you think is a franchise QB there when you draft, you take that guy. Cousins has been better than Wonnum/Weatherly, but QB is the most premium position so when I get to the point of looking to upgrade positions QB takes precedent for me. Hopefully the offensive line isn't such a glaring need going into the draft that the team needs anything there at that time. Then the team can approach the draft in with the mindset of future needs and taking the best players available. But as things stand now, no, I wouldn't say that it sounds right to put DT or DE anywhere on the list of need that offensive linemen currently belong to. If I was running the team right now and the draft was happening right now the first thing that I would do is wonder how I still have a job. The second thing that I would do is see if I could find a trade partner that would give me a couple mediocre offensive linemen in exchange for draft pick consideration. Then I would use the remaining draft picks to upgrade the team by considering best players available at all positions that are not already stacked for the next two years. If any draft pick helped me this year it would be great but I would not be drafting counting on that to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, swede700 said: No, depending upon where you're putting emphasis in the phrase you utilized... Is DE a premium position in the NFL? Yes. Is DE a need on the team? Yes, but not the premium position of need in comparison to OG and 3T. For me, a DE in the hierarchy of needs (at least in NFL team terms) falls below OG, 3T, and S (in that order). I will redact the word "here" then so you can just say "depends"... and going by the premise that in the NFL you're going to have to pay a premium if you want to upgrade the edge, whereas you can get an adequate starting guard reasonably in FA (a large market). So you get a plug and play or 2 on the inside and swing for the fences in the draft because Paye may be sitting there at 14. Edited March 12, 2021 by babababa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Correct me if I am wrong...and I freely admit that being wrong is a strong possibility...while QB sacks were down this year for the defense, it appeared that the edge rushers got adequate pressure on the opposing QB. The problem was that there wasn't any supporting pressure coming up the middle. Pocket QB's could step up in the pocket and throw unmolested. Athletic QB's could utilize play action and roll outs to outside the play box. We got our sacks on blitz packages and against more or less immobile QB's. At least this is what I think I saw! With Hunter returning (if he is physically 100%), it seems to me that the emphasis for the defense has to be 3T DT. My hope is that at least one starting OG will come out of FA, and draft the other fairly high...maybe put a 3 and a 4 together to get back into the 2nd round. Trade back to later in the first, perhaps getting another 2nd or high 3rd, and use the now later 1st round pick for a DT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: No, that doesn't sound right to me. I would say the team has an immediate need of 2 offensive linemen. The team could use an upgrade of two defensive linemen. I could be talked into the DT being almost as vital as the two offensive linemen because while Stephen is better than Samia, arguing levels of bad becomes somewhat pointless after a certain level. Still, going into the season with Stephen as the starter probably doesn't get someone fired. Going into the season with Samia as the starter should get someone fired. And the Samia position is comparing the better of the two offensive line positions. DE is a position that can be upgraded and the team absolutely should be looking at opportunities to do that because it is a premium position. However, I wouldn't put that above looking for opportunities to upgrade the QB position. QB is my top priority. If there is a guy that you think is a franchise QB there when you draft, you take that guy. Cousins has been better than Wonnum/Weatherly, but QB is the most premium position so when I get to the point of looking to upgrade positions QB takes precedent for me. Hopefully the offensive line isn't such a glaring need going into the draft that the team needs anything there at that time. Then the team can approach the draft in with the mindset of future needs and taking the best players available. But as things stand now, no, I wouldn't say that it sounds right to put DT or DE anywhere on the list of need that offensive linemen currently belong to. If I was running the team right now and the draft was happening right now the first thing that I would do is wonder how I still have a job. The second thing that I would do is see if I could find a trade partner that would give me a couple mediocre offensive linemen in exchange for draft pick consideration. Then I would use the remaining draft picks to upgrade the team by considering best players available at all positions that are not already stacked for the next two years. If any draft pick helped me this year it would be great but I would not be drafting counting on that to happen. Sign adequate/decent low cost guards in FA. The Vikings cannot afford a Shaq Barrett or even a Romeo Okwara. Draft Paye, or even Ojulari if they're available IMO. Drafting Mac Jones or Trey Lance probably means the end of Zimmer and a rebuild. Even then you don't know what you're getting at QB. 3 hours ago: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/seven-round-2021-nfl-mock-draft-jaguars-get-trevor-lawrence-weapons-titans-trade-up-early-for-edge-rusher/ Otherwise trade down. If this team couldn't find starting guards that wanted to play in MN in FA then go after Vera-Tucker in a trade-down. But in my mind guards are replaceable down the line whereas great DEs are harder to find nonetheless afford and/or retain (Hunter might not be permanent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: Correct me if I am wrong...and I freely admit that being wrong is a strong possibility...while QB sacks were down this year for the defense, it appeared that the edge rushers got adequate pressure on the opposing QB. The problem was that there wasn't any supporting pressure coming up the middle. Pocket QB's could step up in the pocket and throw unmolested. Athletic QB's could utilize play action and roll outs to outside the play box. We got our sacks on blitz packages and against more or less immobile QB's. At least this is what I think I saw! With Hunter returning (if he is physically 100%), it seems to me that the emphasis for the defense has to be 3T DT. My hope is that at least one starting OG will come out of FA, and draft the other fairly high...maybe put a 3 and a 4 together to get back into the 2nd round. Trade back to later in the first, perhaps getting another 2nd or high 3rd, and use the now later 1st round pick for a DT. Read my thread about how bad the DE's pressured the QB in the final Quarter of the season. Brailford was the only DE to even record a hit in the last 4 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Guys stop pretending the DEs were good last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 32 minutes ago, babababa said: Guys stop pretending the DEs were good last year. What does that have to do with the guards going from bad to worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babababa Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 38 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said: What does that have to do with the guards going from bad to worse? Nothing. Trying reading my initial posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Maybe signing Trai Turner could make up for cutting Reiff. I think he's my top FA target right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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