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4 hours ago, minutemancl said:

Am I wrong in thinking that if the effects of the Delta variant in the majority of vaccinated people are so minor that they do not even know they are sick, the vaccine is doing its job? Seems like a good sign, not a bad one. Seems like vaccinated people are protected then, even if they can potentially spread the virus. Sounds like I'd only be masking up to protect unvaccinated people, which I will not be doing.

Agree with most of this, but I think we should try and protect everyone, even the ignorant.

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2 hours ago, Xenos said:

Speaking of the discussion we’re having right now:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/07/28/biden-health-officials-masking-guidance-501227
 

Quote

But Fauci noted that the changed CDC guidance was not only meant to benefit unvaccinated Americans. He said “people don’t fully appreciate” that unfettered circulation of the virus among unvaccinated individuals would give it an opportunity to mutate into a form more dangerous than the Delta variant — a new iteration of the virus that “even the vaccinated people may not be able to handle.”

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, seeking to explain her agency’s shift on masking, said Wednesday that when vaccinated people experienced breakthrough infections with prior coronavirus variants, “we didn’t see the capacity of them to spread the virus to others.”

“But with the Delta variant … we have been seeing that if you happen to have one of those breakthrough infections, that you can actually now pass it to somebody else,” Walensky told CNN in an interview

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Breakthrough infections remain relatively rare — roughly one or two cases for every 20 vaccinated individuals, Walensky said — and their negative health effects for people who have already gotten their shots are comparatively mild.

Still, “they could bring it to others,” Walensky said. “They think they’re protected in terms of transmission. And we felt it was important that they know and understand — parents, families of immunocompromised people, families at risk of severe disease — that they should protect themselves so that they don’t bring that disease home.”

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100% my mindset. Short-term, yes it mostly F's the unvaccinated (which arent all ignorant people). Long-term, it could help develop a variant hitherto untold rendering the current vaccines moot. THAT is why the viral load and potential for vaccinated people to contribute to the spread is so important. We already know that the Delta is dangerous. Let that thing run rampant against both vaxed and unvaxed alike despite it not having serious ramification for the vaxed upon receiving it and the likelihood of an even stronger variant goes up exponentially.  

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1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Long-term, it could help develop a variant hitherto undreamt of rendering the current vaccines moot.

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14 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

You wanna see something really sad/pathetic?

Putting on full display not just how insensitive he is, but how dumb he is as well. Doesn’t know the difference between affect/effect, their/there, choose/chose, etc. Worst part is he did all that babbling and didn’t actually apologize.

We’re going to hell in a handbasket 😞

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

Wtf 

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6 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Basically. These people are determined to kill themselves, and we can only babysit for so long.

I know the data is always evolving but if .1% are dying with the new variant, I think the chances of them killing themselves are slim. 

For as much hoopla there is about delta that seems like a pretty low number

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30 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I know the data is always evolving but if .1% are dying with the new variant, I think the chances of them killing themselves are slim. 

For as much hoopla there is about delta that seems like a pretty low number

They don’t know what the fatality rate is yet. So saying it’s only .1% is misleading at best.

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On 7/27/2021 at 9:09 AM, minutemancl said:

There won't be another COVID mask mandate; I'm almost certain of that. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. And with my family and I being smart and getting vaccinated as soon as it was available, and with the data of symptomatic cases among vaccinated persons right now (including the extremely good efficacy of the vaccine against the delta variant) I'm not worried at all. 

I had to postpone my wedding last year and it is coming up now in about a month. I'm sure as hell not moving it back again. The vast majority of my family is vaccinated. If you aren't, you're on your own.

Yeah, like I'm sure some businesses will do it for their workers, but the vast majority won't.

I've got a slew of weddings to go to the next couple months (thanks to my GF having a seemingly endless list of friends). Most were postponed ones too, been interesting how they are all handling it. Two had a small ceremony last year, one was over zoom. One of the people who straight up canceled theirs last year apparently is going to uninvite certain people who aren't vaxxed and don't take it seriously. 

I know engagements can be long but I just pushed off getting engaged until things were looking better.
I knew my GF would want to like show the ring, tell the story to people, and everything else...on top of start to try and plan it. While she just wants to married, I think she'll be happy she has that experience.

Hope everything goes well for you two
 

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15 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Is it really in question though? We don't exactly what the breakthrough rate is, but it's still low. Which means there's an order of magnitude type difference in spread between vaccinated and non-vaccinated people.

There's already a mask mandate for non-vaccinated people, and the vaccine prevents serious illness (including delta). That's what would stop the spread. This is a pointless, ineffective way to try and coddle jackasses.

 

I'd have recommended it for lowly vaccinated areas. I know the recommendation is to protect the unvaccinated, but there are areas of the US where hospitals are getting strained again (Florida, Missouri, etc...); that's a problem that impacts an entire community. Also, I have a personal attachment to what those healthcare workers are going through. When you're going through surge after surge- it takes a mental toll. 

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9 hours ago, Deadpulse said:

100% my mindset. Short-term, yes it mostly F's the unvaccinated (which arent all ignorant people). Long-term, it could help develop a variant hitherto untold rendering the current vaccines moot. THAT is why the viral load and potential for vaccinated people to contribute to the spread is so important. We already know that the Delta is dangerous. Let that thing run rampant against both vaxed and unvaxed alike despite it not having serious ramification for the vaxed upon receiving it and the likelihood of an even stronger variant goes up exponentially.  

This issue with this is- it's going to spread abroad way more than it will in the US due to the world being severely under vaccinated at the moment. I know we'd like to cut out all the odds of this thing mutating, but the chances of it mutating abroad seems to be exponentially higher than it mutating here, especially in highly vaxxed areas, which is why I think the CDC should have made their recommendation based on how vaxxed a community is. 

Edited by WizeGuy
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1 hour ago, WizeGuy said:

I'd have recommended it for lowly vaccinated areas. I know the recommendation is to protect the unvaccinated, but there are areas of the US where hospitals are getting strained again (Florida, Missouri, etc...); that's a problem that impacts an entire community. Also, I have a personal attachment to what those healthcare workers are going through. When you're going through surge after surge- it takes a mental toll. 

Yeah the other part of this is that we give hospitals the ability to deprioritize COVID-19 cases where the patient is anti-vax by choice. I get that it's not ideal, but this is a glorified hostage situation where we either stop working as society, or a few people die of a preventable disease. 

They made an individual choice to not protect themselves, they can deal with the repercussions of that choice as an individual too. 

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13 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Agree with most of this, but I think we should try and protect everyone, even the ignorant.

Absolutely agree, in general. But is that actually going to protect them? It is another layer of protection for them against the virus, and I'd be doing the responsible societal thing, but these are people going about their day without a mask and without being vaccinated alongside others who are the same. Chances are much, much higher they get it from one of their weirdo friends than me, whether I'm wearing a mask or not.

5 hours ago, Kiltman said:

Yeah, like I'm sure some businesses will do it for their workers, but the vast majority won't.

I've got a slew of weddings to go to the next couple months (thanks to my GF having a seemingly endless list of friends). Most were postponed ones too, been interesting how they are all handling it. Two had a small ceremony last year, one was over zoom. One of the people who straight up canceled theirs last year apparently is going to uninvite certain people who aren't vaxxed and don't take it seriously. 

I know engagements can be long but I just pushed off getting engaged until things were looking better.
I knew my GF would want to like show the ring, tell the story to people, and everything else...on top of start to try and plan it. While she just wants to married, I think she'll be happy she has that experience.

Hope everything goes well for you two

Thanks Kiltman. We had a very small backyard wedding last year on our original date with about 20 total people- only close family and friends. The rest of our family and friends watched us get married over a video streaming service. It was actually very nice, but we felt awful about having to leave a ton of people out and we did not get to party like we wanted to. Everything is all planned out and paid for for about a month from now, so I need the world to get its stuff together so nothing happens that this needs to be pushed back again.

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11 hours ago, Xenos said:

They don’t know what the fatality rate is yet. So saying it’s only .1% is misleading at best.

How likely is it to increase much?  I'm not sure about this but aren't less asymptomatic being tested now since the vaccine has been rolled out? 

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21 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

How likely is it to increase much?  I'm not sure about this but aren't less asymptomatic being tested now since the vaccine has been rolled out? 

The report is based on a UK study. The data they listed didn’t take into account vaccination lowering the fatality rate. As it is, until they can properly separate the two, no one can conclusively say if it’s more fatal or not. Or if it’s even 0.1%. Once again see link and quote below:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/07/instagram-posts/data-showing-lower-death-rate-coronavirus-delta-va/
 

Quote

Experts pointed out that lower case fatality rates would be expected, simply because so many people have been vaccinated in recent months, whereas the original coronavirus had time to spread and cause severe disease long before vaccines became widely available. 

The vaccines authorized in the U.S.and the U.K. have been shown to substantially reduce the likelihood of getting infected with COVID-19, and to reduce the severity of the disease in those who do get infected.

Boston University professor Brooke Nichols, a health economist and infectious-disease mathematical modeler, noted that Table 4 of the same report shows that most people aged 50 and over who have been confirmed to be infected with the delta variant have had one or two doses of the vaccine. 

"The reported case fatality rate from Table 2 in the report is really just illustrative of the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing severe disease," she said.

Dr. Amesh Adalja, a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, said: "All variants are going to have a lower case fatality rate, because a significant portion of the population, especially those at high risk for death, are fully or partially vaccinated."

The delta virus was "tamer because of the high proportion of high-risk people that were protected by a combination of vaccination and prior immunity," he added. "Also, treatments have improved."

 

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3 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Yeah the other part of this is that we give hospitals the ability to deprioritize COVID-19 cases where the patient is anti-vax by choice. I get that it's not ideal, but this is a glorified hostage situation where we either stop working as society, or a few people die of a preventable disease. 

They made an individual choice to not protect themselves, they can deal with the repercussions of that choice as an individual too. 

I absolutely agree with this. I'm so far past caring about unvaccinated people at this point if they get sick. If you didn't care about anyone around you enough to get vaccinated for your own personal choices, the rest of us don't need to care about you when you reap what you sow.

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