Covid-19 News/Discussion

[JonMcC2018]

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/936667

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/study-severe-covid-higher-viral-loads-immune-response-linked-obesity

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7690270/

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, JonMcC2018 said:

The comparison with drink driving is so stupid.

Are people who are obese (and therefore more likely to catch covid badly, have a much larger viral load and infect more people) also effectively out there 'drink driving'? Would you be happy for companies to insist upon a minimum BMI that workers must meet before allowed in the office? And shops to turn overweight people away for posing too much of a threat to other customers?

Vaccines and vaccine mandates are two completely separate things.

Honestly, if the science actually says that obesity (or any other non-protected "characteristic") is as significant of a factor in covid transmission, I'm ok with employers treating it the same way.

Bottom line is that if a person is making some sort of choice that leads to increased risk to others, it is fair game.

Obesity is a bit of a can worm as it relates to "choice" however, and it's not NEARLY as black and white as a vaccine. I don't believe that BMI is a scientifically valid sorting tool, so some other combination of onerous information is likely required to make any such determinations.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, JonMcC2018 said:

Are people who are obese (and therefore more likely to catch covid badly, have a much larger viral load and infect more people)

So, at the least - you've made the most compelling argument on this topic. It seems as if there's a "correlation v causation" possibility here, but I can't really say without really diving into those studies you've provided.

[JonMcC2018]

26 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Honestly, if the science actually says that obesity (or any other non-protected "characteristic") is as significant of a factor in covid transmission, I'm ok with employers treating it the same way.

Bottom line is that if a person is making some sort of choice that leads to increased risk to others, it is fair game.

Obesity is a bit of a can worm as it relates to "choice" however, and it's not NEARLY as black and white as a vaccine. I don't believe that BMI is a scientifically valid sorting tool, so some other combination of onerous information is likely required to make any such determinations.

Well this is what most of the evidence seems to indicate. The correlation between obesity and:

- higher infection rates

- worse outcomes

- higher viral loads

- higher mortality rates

etc etc is too strong to ignore. There can't be any doubt that if we all took it upon ourselves to lose body fat it would go a significant way to protecting both ourselves and those around us from the threat of covid.

https://www.dohanews.co/why-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-obesity-is-a-cause-for-concern/

Quote

Data from a report published earlier this month by the World Obesity Federation (WOF) has shown that being overweight is a predictor of increased complications and even death from Covid-19. The report revealed that a shocking 90% of total deaths worldwide occurred in countries with a high prevalence of obesity. Furthermore, the WOF report shows that death rates from Covid-19 appear to be ten times higher in countries where more than 50% of the population have a BMI of 25 and above.

With data from over 160 countries, not one example was reported of a country where less than 40% of the population was overweight that reported high death rates. Consistently, no country that had a high death rate (over 100 per 100, 000) had less than half of their population overweight.

So should governments be mandating weight loss, fitness, health etc? Do individuals have a moral responsibility to those around them to lose weight?

[MookieMonstah]

3 minutes ago, JonMcC2018 said:

Well this is what most of the evidence seems to indicate. The correlation between obesity and:

- higher infection rates

- worse outcomes

- higher viral loads

- higher mortality rates

etc etc is too strong to ignore. There can't be any doubt that if we all took it upon ourselves to lose body fat it would go a significant way to protecting both ourselves and those around us from the threat of covid.

https://www.dohanews.co/why-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-obesity-is-a-cause-for-concern/

So should governments be mandating weight loss, fitness, health etc? Do individuals have a moral responsibility to those around them to lose weight?

I'm not following the correlation. Obesity and more serious complications adds up, sure. Increased viral load and spreading? I'm not seeing any data in there that actually leads to that. I would also argue that our more uneducated communities also tend to have higher obesity rates. Seems like that is playing a bigger factor...lack of vaccination and lack of masks both leading to increased infection rate. 

[ET80]

10 minutes ago, JonMcC2018 said:

There can't be any doubt that if we all took it upon ourselves to lose body fat it would go a significant way to protecting both ourselves and those around us from the threat of covid.

On this specific aspect of it - you're assuming this sort of change can be implemented overnight for immediate results. It took me a better part of eight months to lose the 25 lbs I lost this year. Sure, my intentions were good and I wanted to lose body fat (and... I ultimately did) but taking it upon yourself isn't an overnight change. There are various influences to this - influences that are societal, economic, mental health related - and throwing out a blanket statement on losing weight is ignoring underlying issues that are present with everyone.

My story is somewhere here in this thread, but Cliffnotes version is this - I work out, sure. But for the diet? It wasn't just changing it, it was completely rewiring my brain in its relationship to food. THAT is much harder to do than others would like to admit.

I got the most out of my experience from this TED Talk - changing body composition is straightforward when you look at the "math" but increasingly complex when you try to rewrite how a brain works...

https://www.ted.com/talks/dr_mike_israetel_the_scientific_landscape_of_healthy_eating/up-next

 

[ET80]

25 minutes ago, JonMcC2018 said:

There can't be any doubt that if we all took it upon ourselves to lose body fat it would go a significant way to protecting both ourselves and those around us from the threat of covid.

Found my original comment, page 155 of this thread:

So - what you're suggesting? I did it. I attacked body fat, done and mission accomplished. But you're drastically oversimplifying the steps to get from point A to point B for a relatively average obese person, with above average resources and knowledge at their disposal.

In theory, your solution makes sense. But the theory is in a vacuum, and so many variables aren't taken into consideration...

[Xenos]

2 hours ago, JonMcC2018 said:

The comparison with drink driving is so stupid.

Are people who are obese (and therefore more likely to catch covid badly, have a much larger viral load and infect more people) also effectively out there 'drink driving'? Would you be happy for companies to insist upon a minimum BMI that workers must meet before allowed in the office? And shops to turn overweight people away for posing too much of a threat to other customers?

Vaccines and vaccine mandates are two completely separate things.

What’s drink driving? 😆

Edited November 8, 2021 by Xenos

[Deadpulse]

4 minutes ago, Xenos said:

What’s drink driving? 😆

never had a road soda?

[ET80]

2 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

7 minutes ago, Xenos said:

What’s drink driving? 😆

never had a road soda?

Soda is bad, so you're playing RIGHT into his trap!

[Xenos]

5 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

never had a road soda?

No road soda?

[incognito_man]

43 minutes ago, JonMcC2018 said:

Well this is what most of the evidence seems to indicate. The correlation between obesity and:

- higher infection rates

- worse outcomes

- higher viral loads

- higher mortality rates

etc etc is too strong to ignore. There can't be any doubt that if we all took it upon ourselves to lose body fat it would go a significant way to protecting both ourselves and those around us from the threat of covid.

https://www.dohanews.co/why-the-link-between-covid-19-deaths-and-obesity-is-a-cause-for-concern/

So should governments be mandating weight loss, fitness, health etc? Do individuals have a moral responsibility to those around them to lose weight?

The burden is on you to prove that obesity even approaches the same level of impact on transmission rates as vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

If obesity resulted in a 90% higher chance of infecting other people, I'm wayyyy more than ok tackling that head-on.

[TVScout]

Japan reported no covid-19 deaths on Sunday for the first time in about 15 months, the Japan Times said.

[SwAg]

If I had to guess, the constitutional issue some people envision is quite different than the one the Fifth Circuit references in its stay.

If you think the employer vaccine requirement is infringing upon some individual right, then you’re simply imagining it.

If you think the employer vaccine requirement raises the specter of a constitutional separation of powers issue, then you’re not wrong.

[MWil23]

41 minutes ago, SwAg said:

If I had to guess, the constitutional issue some people envision is quite different than the one the Fifth Circuit references in its stay.

If you think the employer vaccine requirement is infringing upon some individual right, then you’re simply imagining it.

If you think the employer vaccine requirement raises the specter of a constitutional separation of powers issue, then you’re not wrong.

Serious question:

My mom is unable to get vaccinated as she has/had cancer and it is an issue in conjunction with her treatment. She was informed today that she may have to get it or risk quitting her job. What's the legal justification in this medical instance?