Tk3 Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 As it stands today, this is my ranking - ignoring the fact that the current guys can keep building resume Haloti Ngata - 13 seasons, 2 All Pro, 1 Ring, 32.5 Sacks Ndamukong Suh - 11+ seasons, 3 All Pro, 1 Ring, 64.5 Sacks Geno Atkins - 11+ seasons, 2 All Pro, 75.5 Sacks Fletcher Cox - 9+ seasons, 1 All Pro, 1 Ring, 54.5 Sacks Ngata is obviously a different archetype to the others, but still worthy of this discussion, even if the stats don't align Right now, considering Kevin Williams didn't even make the semi-finals on his first ballot, I am hesitant to say any of them have punched their ticket yet. I do think Ngata can get a bit of love in the process, but I think he's probably 50/50. I think Suh has a chance to build his resume more with a couple more solid seasons and maybe another ring. Cox obviously has significant opportunity to improve resume and get in. Atkins window to improve his resume is probably closing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 You need to add the Vikings dt into, he had like 4 all pros. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) I’d say no on all. Ranking wise, largely depends on what you mean (best resume, best player, best peak, who you’d want on the team). Edited March 14, 2021 by Yin-Yang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Kiwibrown said: You need to add the Vikings dt into, he had like 4 all pros. Kevin Williams? I'm specifically considering him a HOF guy above these 4 and I sort of mentioned in OP that I viewed him as a different class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJaxxenGuy Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Suh Ngata (though I’d take Ngata over Suh as a Ravens fan) Atkins Cox. Suh is a lock for the hall IMO, but maybe not first ballot. Halo to Ngata will get in in the future when it’s a down year of candidates and he’s their “retro” pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 All I will say about Ngata is that there were years when - on a defense with Ray Lewis, Ed Reed and Terrell Suggs - he was clearly our best defensive player on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinebackerGod Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Suh Ngata Atkins Cox Cox still has some time to build on his resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I think Ngata competes more with like Vince Wilfork and uh maybe Casey Hampton but Hampton might be an era before. The Suh, McCoy, Cox, Atkins group is going to get blocked by JJ Watt and Donald for sure as well as the older tier like Kevin Williams and maybe Richard Seymour. Ngata might get in before the rest you listed, but I don't think the biggest boys get that much love from the Hall... but I think the NT type is less blocked for a path to the jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TENINCH Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 4:09 AM, Kiwibrown said: You need to add the Vikings dt into, he had like 4 all pros. 5 Time All-Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 5 hours ago, TENINCH said: 5 Time All-Pro More than drew brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlaqOptic Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 3/11/2021 at 8:14 AM, Tk3 said: As it stands today, this is my ranking - ignoring the fact that the current guys can keep building resume Haloti Ngata - 13 seasons, 2 All Pro, 1 Ring, 32.5 Sacks Ndamukong Suh - 11+ seasons, 3 All Pro, 1 Ring, 64.5 Sacks Geno Atkins - 11+ seasons, 2 All Pro, 75.5 Sacks Fletcher Cox - 9+ seasons, 1 All Pro, 1 Ring, 54.5 Sacks Ngata is obviously a different archetype to the others, but still worthy of this discussion, even if the stats don't align Right now, considering Kevin Williams didn't even make the semi-finals on his first ballot, I am hesitant to say any of them have punched their ticket yet. I do think Ngata can get a bit of love in the process, but I think he's probably 50/50. I think Suh has a chance to build his resume more with a couple more solid seasons and maybe another ring. Cox obviously has significant opportunity to improve resume and get in. Atkins window to improve his resume is probably closing Flip Atkins and Suh and that's how I've got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 All of those guys are HoF players. Atkins is hurt a bit without the ring. No point comparing stats for guys still playing who have played 9,10, and 11 years compared to someone who played 13 years. Pro football reference does a Hall of Fame monitor. This is the link for the DTs: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DT.htm It really stands out just how nuts Donald has already been in 7 years. I'd put Ngata last on the list for a few reasons. He was the 3rd or 4th (probably 3rd) best defender on those Ravens teams (Lewis 1, Reed 2, Ngata, then T-sizzle) Cox, Atkins, and Suh did it often without HoF guys around them. They were the guy on their teams. Sure, Ngata might have been the best Ravens defender in 1 or 2 years, but he's not a Reed or Lewis. He was nothing special after Reed and Lewis left following 2012 (that was almost half of his career) best individual stats from those 6 years (sacks 2 1/2, TFL 6, QB hits 8 in 2015 as a downgrade from Suh in Detroit) Id probably go Suh 1, Atkins 2, Cox 3 Ngata 4 with the expectation that Cox will pass Atkins if he plays about 4 more years. FYI, Seymour and JJ Watt were DEs, not DTs. Even if they spent lots of time as 3-4 DEs, its still not the same position. This is true even if Seymour spent 8 years as a DE and 4 as a DT. A part time DT is not blocking any of those guys from anything. JJ is already a first ballot guy, so he's not staying in anyone's way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 7 hours ago, SkippyX said: All of those guys are HoF players. Atkins is hurt a bit without the ring. No point comparing stats for guys still playing who have played 9,10, and 11 years compared to someone who played 13 years. Pro football reference does a Hall of Fame monitor. This is the link for the DTs: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DT.htm It really stands out just how nuts Donald has already been in 7 years. I'd put Ngata last on the list for a few reasons. He was the 3rd or 4th (probably 3rd) best defender on those Ravens teams (Lewis 1, Reed 2, Ngata, then T-sizzle) Cox, Atkins, and Suh did it often without HoF guys around them. They were the guy on their teams. Sure, Ngata might have been the best Ravens defender in 1 or 2 years, but he's not a Reed or Lewis. He was nothing special after Reed and Lewis left following 2012 (that was almost half of his career) best individual stats from those 6 years (sacks 2 1/2, TFL 6, QB hits 8 in 2015 as a downgrade from Suh in Detroit) Id probably go Suh 1, Atkins 2, Cox 3 Ngata 4 with the expectation that Cox will pass Atkins if he plays about 4 more years. FYI, Seymour and JJ Watt were DEs, not DTs. Even if they spent lots of time as 3-4 DEs, its still not the same position. This is true even if Seymour spent 8 years as a DE and 4 as a DT. A part time DT is not blocking any of those guys from anything. JJ is already a first ballot guy, so he's not staying in anyone's way. The HOF monitor is what generated this topic for me. Ignoring Kevin Williams, who I considered a "lock", I wanted to look at those guys chilling in the ~70 range. The guys who passed my "eye test" but scored a little lower than anticipated Ngata's monitor score feels a little artificially low, because his play type doesn't generate stats. But his peak value was HIGH for like a 5-6 year stretch there Obviously the guys still playing have a chance to boost their numbers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 Throw Jurrell Casey in there. Only 51 sacks, but a ridiculous 507 tackles, a PFF rating in the top five against the run and the pass for like 5 years straight. He also has 19 games fewer than Atkins, 30 fewer than Suh, 38 fewer than Ngata, and 2 more than Cox. He's fourth in sacks among that group, but third in every other category. The Titans were a crappy team the vast majority of his career too. Casey: 507 tack, 85 TFL, 8 FF, 15 PD. Atkins: 384 tack, 100 TFL, 8 FF, 6 PD. Ngata: 517 tack, 63 TFL, 7 FF, 40 PD, 5 INTs. Cox: 408 tack, 71 TFL, 12 FF, 14 PD. Suh: 563 tack, 123 TFL, 5 FF, 38 PD. Adding him in, I probably go Ngata, Suh, Casey, Cox, Atkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Daniel said: Throw Jurrell Casey in there. Only 51 sacks, but a ridiculous 507 tackles, a PFF rating in the top five against the run and the pass for like 5 years straight. He also has 19 games fewer than Atkins, 30 fewer than Suh, 38 fewer than Ngata, and 2 more than Cox. He's fourth in sacks among that group, but third in every other category. The Titans were a crappy team the vast majority of his career too. Casey: 507 tack, 85 TFL, 8 FF, 15 PD. Atkins: 384 tack, 100 TFL, 8 FF, 6 PD. Ngata: 517 tack, 63 TFL, 7 FF, 40 PD, 5 INTs. Cox: 408 tack, 71 TFL, 12 FF, 14 PD. Suh: 563 tack, 123 TFL, 5 FF, 38 PD. Adding him in, I probably go Ngata, Suh, Casey, Cox, Atkins. I think I'm going to respectfully disagree on this one Casey's lack of All Pro is meaningful. In my opinion he has been consistently very good, but never elite. Personally I'm not putting someone in as a result of being consistently top 5-10, but never being top 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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