Was Brandon Scherff Worth the #5 Overall Pick?

[MKnight82]

Brandon Scherff is a good football player.  However, my problem with him has always been that he plays Guard, and that we took him with the 5th overall pick in the 2015 NFL Draft.  

We took Scherff in that draft to be our starting RT.  I'd argue taking a RT at 5 isn't worth that selection either, but then Scherff promptly got outplayed in training camp by Morgan Moses and got pushed inside to Guard.  

So how valuable is a Guard?  Let's look how the NFL values Guards in the form of salary:

Average NFL Salaries by Position - 2017 Season
1	Quarterback		6	Outside Linebacker		11	Tight End
	$5,909,831			$2,615,324			$2,122,488
2	Left Tackle		7	Center		12	Safety
	$5,044,299			$2,520,310			$2,054,204
3	Defensive Tackle		8	Guard		13	Inside Linebacker
	$2,731,474			$2,437,061			$1,617,519
4	Right Tackle		9	Wide Receiver		14	Running Back
	$2,697,618			$2,372,350			$1,513,164
5	Defensive End		10	Cornerback		15	Fullback
	$2,649,563			$2,350,288			$1,093,631

 

So for this year, the average NFL Guard is getting paid 8th out of the 15 positions.  However, I'd argue that WR and CB are being misrepresented as they generally have 5-6 per roster, with the bottom of those dragging the average down.  So IMO its better to rank Guard around 10th.  So it should be fairly obvious that based on how most NFL front offices value these positions, we spend the #5 overall pick on a non-premium position.  

Well then you have to ask your, OK, if we didn't take Scherff who could we have taken instead?  The obvious choice is Leonard Williams, but let's look at how the rest of that First Round played out.  

1	6	New York Jets	Leonard Williams †	DE	USC
1	7	Chicago Bears	Kevin White	WR	West Virginia
1	8	Atlanta Falcons	Vic Beasley †	DE	Clemson
1	9	New York Giants	Ereck Flowers	OT	Miami (FL)
1	10	St. Louis Rams	Todd Gurley †	RB	Georgia
1	11	Minnesota Vikings	Trae Waynes	CB	Michigan State
1	12	Cleveland Browns	Danny Shelton	DT	Washington
1	13	New Orleans Saints	Andrus Peat	OT	Stanford
1	14	Miami Dolphins	DeVante Parker	WR	Louisville
1	15	San Diego Chargers	Melvin Gordon †	RB	Wisconsin
1	16	Houston Texans	Kevin Johnson	CB	Wake Forest
1	17	San Francisco 49ers	Arik Armstead	DE	Oregon
1	18	Kansas City Chiefs	Marcus Peters †	CB	Washington
1	19	Cleveland Browns	Cameron Erving	C	Florida State
1	20	Philadelphia Eagles	Nelson Agholor	WR	USC
1	21	Cincinnati Bengals	Cedric Ogbuehi	OT	Texas A&M
1	22	Pittsburgh Steelers	Bud Dupree	OLB	Kentucky
1	23	Denver Broncos	Shane Ray	DE	Missouri
1	24	Arizona Cardinals	D. J. Humphries	OT	Florida
1	25	Carolina Panthers	Shaq Thompson	OLB	Washington
1	26	Baltimore Ravens	Breshad Perriman	WR	UCF
1	27	Dallas Cowboys	Byron Jones	CB	Connecticut
1	28	Detroit Lions	Laken Tomlinson	G	Duke
1	29	Indianapolis Colts	Phillip Dorsett	WR	Miami (FL)
1	30	Green Bay Packers	Damarious Randall	S	Arizona State
1	31	New Orleans Saints	Stephone Anthony	LB	Clemson
1	32	New England Patriots	Malcom Brown	DT	Texas

So who could have been a better pick than Scherff?  Leonard Williams has been a good player.  Vic Beasley had a monster season last year.  Marcus Peters has been a dominant CB.  Shane Ray has been solid.  Other than that, its a first round mostly filled with disappointment, or still waiting to see.  

So given the alternatives in what appears to have been a pretty weak class, the Scherff pick doesn't look so bad.  Could there have been a better pick?  Ya Leonard Williams, Beasley or Peters would all have probably been better selections.  Was the Scherff pick egregious?  In a better class it probably would have been, but in a crappy class like this one it probably wasn't.

Anyways, what do you guys think? 

[lavar703]

We should've picked Leonard Williams. Scherff is a great player but we looked the gift horse in the mouth. 

[THESKINSFAN21]

Leonard Williams has been nothing special. Give me Allen over Williams.  The average pay for someone is if they are average.  We have a great right guard.  Vic Beasley would mean no Preston Smith. Marcus Peters would mean no Norman. I'm happy that we drafted the best offensive lineman considering we had nothing outside of Trent there.  We have gotten better thanks to the o line. If Leonard Williams would have became a stud then sure,I'd use hindsight to say he would have been the better choice. So far,Scherff is the better player.

[MKnight82]

11 minutes ago, THESKINSFAN21 said:

Leonard Williams has been nothing special. Give me Allen over Williams.  The average pay for someone is if they are average.  We have a great right guard.  Vic Beasley would mean no Preston Smith. Marcus Peters would mean no Norman. I'm happy that we drafted the best offensive lineman considering we had nothing outside of Trent there.  We have gotten better thanks to the o line. If Leonard Williams would have became a stud then sure,I'd use hindsight to say he would have been the better choice. So far,Scherff is the better player.

You're missing the point.  I posted the average salaries  to show how teams pay the different positions which is an indication of how they value those positions.  

Also I disagree with you about Leonard Williams, and Vic Beasley has been better than Preston Smith (although he's been hurt this year).  

edit - I would also disagree with you that Scherff has been a "great" Guard.  He's been good, but definitely struggled at times.

[lavar703]

39 minutes ago, THESKINSFAN21 said:

Leonard Williams has been nothing special. Give me Allen over Williams.  The average pay for someone is if they are average.  We have a great right guard.  Vic Beasley would mean no Preston Smith. Marcus Peters would mean no Norman. I'm happy that we drafted the best offensive lineman considering we had nothing outside of Trent there.  We have gotten better thanks to the o line. If Leonard Williams would have became a stud then sure,I'd use hindsight to say he would have been the better choice. So far,Scherff is the better player.

Leonard Williams is one of the best defensive players in football. I have no idea where you came up with him being nothing special?

[SeanTaylorsaPIMP]

Do you guys remember how much it sucked having a terrible offensive line and how long it took for us to build it up to what it is today? Would I have rather of had Leonard Williams, absolutely. But our offensive line is no longer a liability and Schreff is huge part of that. I don't know how you can be disappointed with him, he's been an absolute monster this season. I'm not sure what he grades in PFF but from the eye test, he is an absolute beast and is feared by 300+ lb defenders.

[SeanTaylorsaPIMP]

For the record, I wanted Williams, Amari Cooper, or Dante Fowler that draft. Only Williams was available so I was shocked and upset that we didn't take him but I've been very happy with how Schreff has turned out. 

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, SeanTayorsaPIMP said:

Do you guys remember how much it sucked having a terrible offensive line and how long it took for us to build it up to what it is today? Would I have rather of had Leonard Williams, absolutely. But our offensive line is no longer a liability and Schreff is huge part of that. I don't know how you can be disappointed with him, he's been an absolute monster this season. I'm not sure what he grades in PFF but from the eye test, he is an absolute beast and is feared by 300+ lb defenders.

Our Oline isn't that great at run blocking.  Pass protection has certainly improved, but based on Scherff's play I find it hard to believe we couldn't have taken a 2nd or 3rd round guard and had the same result. 

[SeanTaylorsaPIMP]

Just now, MKnight82 said:

Our Oline isn't that great at run blocking.  Pass protection has certainly improved, but based on Scherff's play I find it hard to believe we couldn't have taken a 2nd or 3rd round guard and had the same result. 

I do agree that the run blocking has been disappointing. It boggles my mind too. I know it's not all on the line just like it's not all on the RBs but I can't figure it out. When I see Schreff pull, he's fast and athletic and bulldozes guys. I think that Long and Moses are the weak links in the running game. I will say that Lauvao is probably my least favorite starter on the whole team but since he's regained his health this season, he's improved a bit. Still not sold on him. But he's not the train wreck he's been the pass few seasons. 

[Dashing202]

55 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Our Oline isn't that great at run blocking.  Pass protection has certainly improved, but based on Scherff's play I find it hard to believe we couldn't have taken a 2nd or 3rd round guard and had the same result. 

I rather have had Williams over Brandon scherff

[Dashing202]

54 minutes ago, SeanTayorsaPIMP said:

I do agree that the run blocking has been disappointing. It boggles my mind too. I know it's not all on the line just like it's not all on the RBs but I can't figure it out. When I see Schreff pull, he's fast and athletic and bulldozes guys. I think that Long and Moses are the weak links in the running game. I will say that Lauvao is probably my least favorite starter on the whole team but since he's regained his health this season, he's improved a bit. Still not sold on him. But he's not the train wreck he's been the pass few seasons. 

Idk we haven't had any good running back in a while . Look at Arizona there Ol sucks yet AD gets 130 yards and 2 tds ?

 

 

[THESKINSFAN21]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

Leonard Williams is one of the best defensive players in football. I have no idea where you came up with him being nothing special?

He is definitely not one of the best defensive players in the league.  Have you watched any Jets games?

[turtle28]

You really did a great job on this post, but at this point in the season I just frankly don’t understand what the point is in bringing up this topic for debate again.

How many discussions about this have we had since even before the 2015 draft and definitely after he was selected?

Countless.

We should have taken Leonard Williams - no doubt, that was a NO Brainer pick - but at the same time with the way BRandon Scherff is playing right now he’s the best guard in the nfl.

So while we should have taken Leonard Williams and it was stupid to pass on him, it’s not like we missed on the Scherff pick. He’s been awesome for us.

[turtle28]

42 minutes ago, THESKINSFAN21 said:

He is definitely not one of the best defensive players in the league.  Have you watched any Jets games?

The play of the entire jets roster does not mean that Leonard Williams isn’t one of the best defensive players in the nfl.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

Our Oline isn't that great at run blocking.  Pass protection has certainly improved, but based on Scherff's play I find it hard to believe we couldn't have taken a 2nd or 3rd round guard and had the same result. 

We could have definitely found a starting guard in round 2 or 3 and while I would have taken Leonard Williams and we should have selected him instead of Scherff, we should realize that Scherff is playing like an All-Pro OG right now and will be for the rest of his career. If he continues to play the way he’s playing this year he’s going to be a Hall of Fame guard someday, and no I’m not making that claim lightly, he’s the best guard in the NFL right now and he’s only in his 3rd year.