turtle28 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 hours ago, THESKINSFAN21 said: Leonard Williams has been nothing special. Give me Allen over Williams. The average pay for someone is if they are average. We have a great right guard. Vic Beasley would mean no Preston Smith. Marcus Peters would mean no Norman. I'm happy that we drafted the best offensive lineman considering we had nothing outside of Trent there. We have gotten better thanks to the o line. If Leonard Williams would have became a stud then sure,I'd use hindsight to say he would have been the better choice. So far,Scherff is the better player. We could have had Leonard Williams & Allen if we had selected Williams in 2015 like we should have. I’d take two pro bowl 3-4 DE’s or 4-3 DTs over a pro bowl RG. I don’t really understand any of your points. 1. Vic Beasley is better pass rusher than Preston Smith, so I’d definitely rather have him. 2. If we had taken Beasley or Williams in round 1 then we could have taken Eddie Goldman, Eric Kendricks, Bernadrick McKiney or an OG in round 2. 3. If we had drafted Marcus Peters we wouldn’t be spending $20 million on a cornerback this year and we could spread that money around on more defensive players. I love Norman and he’s great, but if we had the opportunity knowing what we know now it’s be a no brainier to have Peters over signing Norman given their age differences, their differences in cost and Peters is a ball hawk at ints where Norman really hasn’t been, at least not for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, THESKINSFAN21 said: He is definitely not one of the best defensive players in the league. Have you watched any Jets games? Yes, he definitely is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 31 minutes ago, turtle28 said: We could have definitely found a starting guard in round 2 or 3 and while I would have taken Leonard Williams and we should have selected him instead of Scherff, we should realize that Scherff is playing like an All-Pro OG right now and will be for the rest of his career. If he continues to play the way he’s playing this year he’s going to be a Hall of Fame guard someday, and no I’m not making that claim lightly, he’s the best guard in the NFL right now and he’s only in his 3rd year. Oh come on. Scherff is not the best guard in the NFL. He's struggled at times this year. That claim is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Oh come on. Scherff is not the best guard in the NFL. He's struggled at times this year. That claim is just ridiculous. The tape/film says orherwise. I knew you’d disagree w/o actually knowing but that doesn’t change the fact that right now he’s playing the best. Cooley said it, I’m sure you’re dismiss that too as him being a homer but I could frankly care less. He’s playing amazing. You can’t point to anything he’s really done horribly this year but you can find 5 to 10 plays where he’s made amazing plays and I’ve posted them. He had another decleater on a running play against the 49ers ILB yesterday also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 If Scherff isnt playing the best at Guard right now, tell me who is better (right now). I wanted Williams when we selected Scherff. I won't deny it. But I also looked at the bright side and realized we needed to rebuild the OL and focusing on the offense first was the easier solution to getting us to be a relevant team that can get to the playoffs and beyond. And I distinctly remember saying that if he turned out to be a Pro Bowler for many years and ended up being a Jon Jansen-like player for us, that he would've been worth it at #5. I still stand by that. Even though I DO agree with the general premise that Guards are not valued that highly overall. Honestly this is going to go on for years and the only real way we will be able to evaluate this is once they are done playing. Because no one knows if one or the other is going to drop off/get injured/etc... or blow up/dominate/be a HOF player until they are finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: If Scherff isnt playing the best at Guard right now, tell me who is better (right now). I wanted Williams when we selected Scherff. I won't deny it. But I also looked at the bright side and realized we needed to rebuild the OL and focusing on the offense first was the easier solution to getting us to be a relevant team that can get to the playoffs and beyond. And I distinctly remember saying that if he turned out to be a Pro Bowler for many years and ended up being a Jon Jansen-like player for us, that he would've been worth it at #5. I still stand by that. Even though I DO agree with the general premise that Guards are not valued that highly overall. Honestly this is going to go on for years and the only real way we will be able to evaluate this is once they are done playing. Because no one knows if one or the other is going to drop off/get injured/etc... or blow up/dominate/be a HOF player until they are finished. https://m.imgur.com/t/parks_and_rec/izcOK4m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 50 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: If Scherff isnt playing the best at Guard right now, tell me who is better (right now). I wanted Williams when we selected Scherff. I won't deny it. But I also looked at the bright side and realized we needed to rebuild the OL and focusing on the offense first was the easier solution to getting us to be a relevant team that can get to the playoffs and beyond. And I distinctly remember saying that if he turned out to be a Pro Bowler for many years and ended up being a Jon Jansen-like player for us, that he would've been worth it at #5. I still stand by that. Even though I DO agree with the general premise that Guards are not valued that highly overall. Honestly this is going to go on for years and the only real way we will be able to evaluate this is once they are done playing. Because no one knows if one or the other is going to drop off/get injured/etc... or blow up/dominate/be a HOF player until they are finished. Kelechi Osemele, Zach Martin, Trai Turner, Marhal Yanda, David Decastro, TJ Lang, Kevin Zeitler, Richie Incognito, take your pick. Scherff is a good player but he's definitely had a few hiccups this year in pass protection, and he's not dominant in the run game. He's not an elite player at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 37 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: Kelechi Osemele, Zach Martin, Trai Turner, Marhal Yanda, David Decastro, TJ Lang, Kevin Zeitler, Richie Incognito, take your pick. Scherff is a good player but he's definitely had a few hiccups this year in pass protection, and he's not dominant in the run game. He's not an elite player at this time. 1.We played Osemele - he played like trash 2. The others have played well, but I don't think any of them have had any of the great blocks downfield that Scherff has had in every game. 3. Yanda is hurt, out for the year I believe. 4. You can’t even show us where these “hiccups” would be and I’ll conceed that he’s not perfect - what player is - but that doesn’t mean that he isn’t playing at an elite level and is at least in the discussion for the best guard in the NFL right now. Just because you don’t want to believe that Scherff is playing at an All-Pro elite level and arguably the best guard playing in the NFL right now doesn’t mean it’s not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THESKINSFAN21 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: Yes, he definitely is. He hasn't had a sack in the last nine games. While sacks certainly don't mean everything,it is a telling stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THESKINSFAN21 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, turtle28 said: We could have had Leonard Williams & Allen if we had selected Williams in 2015 like we should have. I’d take two pro bowl 3-4 DE’s or 4-3 DTs over a pro bowl RG. I don’t really understand any of your points. 1. Vic Beasley is better pass rusher than Preston Smith, so I’d definitely rather have him. 2. If we had taken Beasley or Williams in round 1 then we could have taken Eddie Goldman, Eric Kendricks, Bernadrick McKiney or an OG in round 2. 3. If we had drafted Marcus Peters we wouldn’t be spending $20 million on a cornerback this year and we could spread that money around on more defensive players. I love Norman and he’s great, but if we had the opportunity knowing what we know now it’s be a no brainier to have Peters over signing Norman given their age differences, their differences in cost and Peters is a ball hawk at ints where Norman really hasn’t been, at least not for us. And our line would stink. Look at the lineman in the draft with Scherff that were taken in the first round, all garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, THESKINSFAN21 said: And our line would stink. Look at the lineman in the draft with Scherff that were taken in the first round, all garbage. Not necessarily, all we would have had to do was sign or draft a good RG after round 1 in 2015 to still have a good OL. I’ll conceed that whoever that player would have been wouldn’t have been as good as Scherff but that doesn’t mean our OL would’ve sucked because we wouldn’t have had a pro bowl RG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 14 minutes ago, THESKINSFAN21 said: He hasn't had a sack in the last nine games. While sacks certainly don't mean everything,it is a telling stat. How many sacks does Jonathan Allen have? And he’s our best DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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