TecmoSuperJoe Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 13 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Teams with cap space out here like: More like: Gonna be the most frugal offseason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 They think their done done right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Von Miller & Shaq Barrett totally endorse this thinking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: Von Miller & Shaq Barrett totally endorse this thinking. Remmers was very solid at RT throughout the whole season. Just horrendous when he had to move to the left side in the superbowl. Second best lineman during the regular season last year, to Fisher. Everyone just forgets everything but the superbowl. I'd be happy to have him back as a RT, or a backup who can move around to multiple spots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: Remmers was very solid at RT throughout the whole season. Just horrendous when he had to move to the left side in the superbowl. Second best lineman during the regular season last year, to Fisher. Everyone just forgets everything but the superbowl. I'd be happy to have him back as a RT, or a backup who can move around to multiple spots. All kidding aside, Remmers is serviceable as a RT. Mahomes' elusiveness helps (although not when it's predictable that he's going to have to do it every time like in the SB). In the regular season, he won't be the reason for KC to be struggling on his own. But in must-win games (let's face it, usually it's the playoffs) vs. elite rushers, though - he needs help. There's no way around that. Even on the RT side, he'll need either a chip block, or Mahomes decision-making (since he can see when Remmers gets beat), or specific play-design to negate a rush (jet sweep, bubble screens, etc), or a combo of the 3. I can understand why KC didn't do it in the SB given how undermanned they were across the board - but at this point, when KC is set to play a team with strong EDGE play, they should know that help needs to be built in. Obviously it helped get Denver the title, but I did feel bad for him that Carolina didn't even adjust at halftime to give Remmers help. To our advantage, obviously, but that was some awful coaching lack of adjustment on the Panthers' end. At this stage, now - there's zero excuse not to plan for some help to go his way if he's losing the 1 on 1 battles vs. an EDGE in a big game. There's too much history that's easily available to do otherwise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 3x....well you get the idea. Edited March 12, 2021 by Broncofan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 35 minutes ago, Broncofan said: All kidding aside, Remmers is serviceable as a RT. Mahomes' elusiveness helps (although not when it's predictable that he's going to have to do it every time like in the SB). In the regular season, he won't be the reason for KC to be struggling on his own. But in must-win games (let's face it, usually it's the playoffs) vs. elite rushers, though - he needs help. There's no way around that. Even on the RT side, he'll need either a chip block, or Mahomes decision-making (since he can see when Remmers gets beat), or specific play-design to negate a rush (jet sweep, bubble screens, etc), or a combo of the 3. I can understand why KC didn't do it in the SB given how undermanned they were across the board - but at this point, when KC is set to play a team with strong EDGE play, they should know that help needs to be built in. Obviously it helped get Denver the title, but I did feel bad for him that Carolina didn't even adjust at halftime to give Remmers help. To our advantage, obviously, but that was some awful coaching lack of adjustment on the Panthers' end. At this stage, now - there's zero excuse not to plan for some help to go his way if he's losing the 1 on 1 battles vs. an EDGE in a big game. There's too much history that's easily available to do otherwise. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 3x....well you get the idea. Again, though, this wasn't a problem for him on the right side. It was literally one game where he was a liability, when he was forced to switch sides, against a great pass rush, when our surrounding OL was already depleted. He was not a problem at RT the first time we played Tampa, in either of the other playoff games, or throughout the rest of the year. Taking one game from 6 years ago in his first year as a starter, and one game where he played out of position, and saying yeah, clearly he's useless without help, is foolish. There's a much larger sample size of him having success for us at RT, than him failing. Dude literally didn't allow a sack last year in the regular season, starting half the year at RT. You're saying there's too much history based off of two games 6 years apart, instead of looking at his full body of work last year. It's the same lazy analysis that's happening on Twitter about this right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: Von Miller & Shaq Barrett totally endorse this thinking. I forgot Barrett was on that '15 Broncos team. Remmers' 2 games have got to be 2 of the worst performances by an OL in a Super Bowl (not to say he's a bad option at RT). Miller ate him alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 On 3/11/2021 at 9:49 AM, ET80 said: Behind that OL? It isn't if, it's when. KC might want to bring in Russell Wilson, too. Y'know, for when Watson gets hurt... You laugh now, but the Bears had 56 TEs on roster, and they made the playoffs. Gotta have that depth! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity_Cometh Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: Again, though, this wasn't a problem for him on the right side. It was literally one game where he was a liability, when he was forced to switch sides, against a great pass rush, when our surrounding OL was already depleted. He was not a problem at RT the first time we played Tampa, in either of the other playoff games, or throughout the rest of the year. Taking one game from 6 years ago in his first year as a starter, and one game where he played out of position, and saying yeah, clearly he's useless without help, is foolish. There's a much larger sample size of him having success for us at RT, than him failing. Dude literally didn't allow a sack last year in the regular season, starting half the year at RT. You're saying there's too much history based off of two games 6 years apart, instead of looking at his full body of work last year. It's the same lazy analysis that's happening on Twitter about this right now. Broncos fans love to make fun of Remmers, for obvious reasons. Don't look too much into it. Chiefs won't be playing the 2015 Broncos defense anyways. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 14 hours ago, Chiefs_5627 said: Can a cap guy explain the difference between a roster bonus and a signing bonus? Obviously, one you get for signing, one you get for being on the roster at the beginning of the league year, but why does converting it save space? It's still money he receives this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, ChazStandard said: Can a cap guy explain the difference between a roster bonus and a signing bonus? Obviously, one you get for signing, one you get for being on the roster at the beginning of the league year, but why does converting it save space? It's still money he receives this year. The cap hit for a signing bonus is prorated over the length of the contract (or, if the contract lasts longer than 5 years, it's prorated over the first 5 years of the contract.) So a $20M signing bonus on a 4 year contract, you pay $5M each year on the cap. If you cut/trade/whatever that player, whatever is left to be paid accelerates to the current year entirely. So, you cut that player with the $20M signing bonus halfway through, you'd pay $10M in year 3, since that's what's left. Roster bonus, same as the actual salary for the year, just hits the salary cap in the year in which it is paid. So, Mahomes was set to have a base salary of about $1M this year, and a roster bonus of $21.7M. When he signed his deal, he got a $10M signing bonus, so $10M divided by 5 (since the contract is longer than 5 years) means the cap hit we would've taken for Mahomes this year would've been the $1M salary + the $21.7M roster bonus + the $2M of the signing bonus that hits the cap this year. So $24.7M. Roughly. By taking the $21.7M roster bonus, which would have been paid soon, and turning it into a signing bonus, instead paid immediately, that $21.7M gets divided over the next 5 years of the contract. So instead of hitting entirely this year, roughly $4.3M of it will hit each year of the next 5 years. So this year's cap hit becomes the $1M salary + the $2M portion of the original signing bonus + the $4.3M portion of the new signing bonus. So he now has a cap hit of about $7.3M this year (there's a workout bonus in there, and I rounded a bit on the signing bonus, but close enough.) For the player, there's no reason not to do this. They get the same money, if anything just a little bit earlier than they would have otherwise. For the team, it's just immediate relief at the cost of future cap hits. We pay $4.3M of that signing bonus this year, and another $4.3M in each of 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2025. So we lowered his cap hit this year, but raised it for the 4 years after. This gets dangerous, as eventually, all must be paid on the cap. There's no way of getting around it forever, and that's where you see teams eventually start purging players or losing free agents or just losing roster mobility/flexibility. At least part of the Saints current...situation, stems from this. Eventually, the bill comes due. It makes more sense than ever this year, though, as it's the lowest cap we'll likely ever see. That $17M matters much more this year than $4.3M will matter in any year to come. You can do the same with salary, as well. For cap purposes, they function similarly enough, provided the player is going to wind up playing for the team all year. It always makes more sense the earlier it is in the contract, because that's more years the signing bonus will prorate over, and more cap savings. A guy with one year left, you really aren't moving much money around, only cutting the cost in half, at best, while shifting quite a bit into a single year just one year down the road. A guy with 4 years, you're cutting that cap hit in 1/5 the year you do it, spreading it pretty thinly across several years. Though those contracts closer to term is where you get teams adding void years, so they make a 1 year deal with 3 void years, so you can spread the signing bonus across 4 years, even though you only want to extend the player for 1. But that is even worse when it comes due because then you're paying a guy who may be retired/cut/traded. The Saints do this a lot, as do the Eagles. Others do it more selectively. The Pats did it with Brady. The Bucs already have done it with Brady as well. This, I personally don't support, basically ever. Maybe for a really desperate all in attempt, but it's so painful if it doesn't work out. But, to see what this looks like, you can pull, for the best example, the Eagles 2022 cap situation on OverTheCap. They have 5 players with no salary, but still a signing bonus cap hit that year. They won't be Eagles, at least not likely for most of them. But the Eagles will be paying for their past performances that year, no matter what happens. If the Eagles do nothing, cut and trade no one, they'll already have $15M in dead money next year. The Pats last year had a $13.5M cap hit for Brady while he won a superbowl in another uniform. Just kind of a tough pill to swallow, that. I got wordy. tl;dr, signing bonus is split over the course of the contract, for cap purposes, roster bonus hits year of. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Thanks for the explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 10:05 AM, Jakuvious said: Remmers was very solid at RT throughout the whole season. Just horrendous when he had to move to the left side in the superbowl. Second best lineman during the regular season last year, to Fisher. Everyone just forgets everything but the superbowl. I'd be happy to have him back as a RT, or a backup who can move around to multiple spots. I’d really prefer him at guard but he’s an okay RT at least for a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 On 3/12/2021 at 6:57 AM, Broncofan said: Von Miller & Shaq Barrett totally endorse this thinking. Just bench him if you make it back to the super bowl and it should be fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.