Apparition Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, ChazStandard said: Minshew is different story, and people dismissing him do so unfairly. He is still only 24, has played his entire career on a very bad Jags team, and his career passer rating, completion %, TD % & INT % are all better than Cam's. [sigh] Are we really doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Starless said: [sigh] Are we really doing this? I feel like if it were as easy to refute as you're implying it is, you'd have just done it. Minshew isn't a star or anything, but there's no denying he has potential, and if he'd put up the same numbers on a winning team or in a bigger market he'd be talked about more. And, like I said (and you cut out of the quote), he's cheaper, younger and less injured. And, like I said, surely even the pro-Cam guys can concede there is an argument for moving on? Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ChazStandard said: he's cheaper, younger and less injured. He is a FA so we dont know if he is cheaper Youth is actually a detriment as he probably wants a long term contract and that is not in the plan right now, especially a guy who probably isnt interested in being a stop gap option, because like you said, he is only 24. He lost his job last year because he went down with an injury... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) If you want Minshew, I have to ask what you think the goal for the Patriots should be this season. Because if you want them to actually compete for a playoff spot, then he's not going to be the guy to get you there. And if you want them to bottom out so they can get in position to draft a premium QB in 2022, he's not the guy to get you there, either. I'll take him as a backup, sure. Minshew is the definition of a quality backup because his physical limitations are such that if he's going to be pressed into service as a starter for an extended period, teams will figure out that there are certain things he simply cannot do, and force him to attempt to do them, with likely disastrous results. That's the problem with these high-floor/low-ceiling guys. There are hard limits to what they can and cannot do on the football field, and eventually they'll run into that wall and bounce right off it. And no, Minshew doesn't "have potential". We've seen his ceiling already. He played with a better offensive supporting cast in Jacksonville last year than what Cam had last year. And all those efficiency stats you lauded added up to a 1-7 record and being benched for Mike Glennon and Jake Luton because once you look past the numbers and watch the actual film, it becomes clear that he's extremely limited in his playmaking ability. His inability to throw with zip down the field means you can't effectively run a timing-based offense with him. And he sure as hell isn't going to get production out of receivers who run sloppy routes or can't get separation, which was the issue with the group of guys the Pats fielded last year. Edited March 14, 2021 by Starless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 Minshew belongs on a team like the 49ers or Rams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazStandard Posted March 14, 2021 Share Posted March 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Deadpulse said: He is a FA so we dont know if he is cheaper Youth is actually a detriment as he probably wants a long term contract and that is not in the plan right now, especially a guy who probably isnt interested in being a stop gap option, because like you said, he is only 24. He lost his job last year because he went down with an injury... He's not an FA, he's under contract for the next 2 years for less than $1mn/year and obviously not in the Jags plans long-term since they're taking Lawrence. He's likely available for almost nothing trade wise, that's a major part of the appeal. Then you take a QB with an early pick, and you give Minshew 1 year to start with three different possible outcomes. 1) He's terrible, you get a terrible record and early pick to surround your rookie QB with some talent. 2) He's average. Giving you as, Starless said, "a perfect back-up" going forward if you want to re-sign him. 3) He's good, meaning surprising success for the season, and potential long-term service and/or trade bait. Given the level of output required to get him, none these are anything but a good return on your investment. Like I've said already, I'm not judging the pro-Cam people here, if you think it was the right decision then I appreciate that. I can see the reasoning, continuity wise. I'm just saying there were other options, and it's not "irrational" to prefer them. Edited March 14, 2021 by ChazStandard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter2_1 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) Have we got anything we can trade to a bad team for a future first, which ends up being a top 3 in all likelihood? Like what Miami did with Houston? Turned into 2nd overall pick. It does feel like we'll never be 2 wins or less, and so won't ever be in a position with our own top 3 draft pick Edited March 15, 2021 by Hunter2_1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonPatriot Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 On 3/13/2021 at 1:52 AM, Yin-Yang said: Disappointed, but I won’t be absolutely down trodden until the draft is over without a quarterback being drafted. Similar to last season, I’d rather crash and burn with a younger player and a fraction of a chance of them turning into something, than I would Cam playing us to 8-8 or a first round exit. If Cam’s the guy going into Week 1, without a rookie waiting in the wings, then it’ll be tough for me to be excited for the 21 team. This is where i'm at with this move. Happy to get him back to shore up the QB room ahead of trying to persuade FAs to join us, but only really satisfied if we add Jones/Lance to the equation too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 19 hours ago, Starless said: The guy who got benched for Mike Glennon and Jake Luton? Sorry but no. Is that what I said? Benched because they were tanking? Lol. Cam was benched several times this season. The only reason he continued to start was because the backup was Stid. Dude is trash Also minshew is the classic example of QB bias against non 1st round picks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Starless said: If you want Minshew, I have to ask what you think the goal for the Patriots should be this season. Because if you want them to actually compete for a playoff spot, then he's not going to be the guy to get you there. And if you want them to bottom out so they can get in position to draft a premium QB in 2022, he's not the guy to get you there, either. I'll take him as a backup, sure. Minshew is the definition of a quality backup because his physical limitations are such that if he's going to be pressed into service as a starter for an extended period, teams will figure out that there are certain things he simply cannot do, and force him to attempt to do them, with likely disastrous results. That's the problem with these high-floor/low-ceiling guys. There are hard limits to what they can and cannot do on the football field, and eventually they'll run into that wall and bounce right off it. And no, Minshew doesn't "have potential". We've seen his ceiling already. He played with a better offensive supporting cast in Jacksonville last year than what Cam had last year. And all those efficiency stats you lauded added up to a 1-7 record and being benched for Mike Glennon and Jake Luton because once you look past the numbers and watch the actual film, it becomes clear that he's extremely limited in his playmaking ability. His inability to throw with zip down the field means you can't effectively run a timing-based offense with him. And he sure as hell isn't going to get production out of receivers who run sloppy routes or can't get separation, which was the issue with the group of guys the Pats fielded last year. Cams offensive line crapped all over the disaster minshew had lol. Cams physical limitations is that he can no longer throw a football effectively lol. again, if minshew was a first round QB with his stats the first two years the narrative would’ve been how the jags are failing him. Look at the hoops people go through to give guys like Marcus mariota Jameis winston Sam darnold chances. Edited March 15, 2021 by CP3MVP 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Let’s be very clear, other than maybe the broncos. This is the only team in the league where cam comes in as the unquestioned starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr A W Niloc Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, CP3MVP said: This is the only team in the league where cam comes in as the unquestioned starter. For now, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vachon777 Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 4 hours ago, CP3MVP said: Let’s be very clear, other than maybe the broncos. This is the only team in the league where cam comes in as the unquestioned starter. I don't even see Cam having a chance against Drew Lock in Denver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFellSBXLIXMVP Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Now with all those weapons I feel/hope BB will trade up for a QB or he really likes Mac Jones and is going to draft him. Can't imagine thinking he's going to win a SB with Cam but clearly he's building the roster to try to be a contender in the following 3 years or so. But he still lacks the QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 He will draft a QB for sure. Cam is mentor and insurance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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