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15 minutes ago, nicfre2011 said:

I agree. We have some massive contracts so it is critical to balance address needs while maintaining depth through the draft. 

To play the other side: if we got a stud LT like CD the oline is set (for the most part) for the next 5 years. Pat can do his thing with very little worry of having a repeat Super Bowl situation. 

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To the naysayers, I ask, "What makes you think a different First Round pick will be cheaper"?? It's still a first round pick that will command a contract befitting a first rounder.

And to those wanting "more picks", giving up an additional 4th.rd pick this year, won't really affect us that much.  We'll still have our premium picks.

Edited by mayanfootball
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6 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

To the naysayers, I ask, "What makes you think a different First Round pick will be cheaper"?? It's still a first round pick that will command a contract befitting a first rounder.

What would be cheaper, two 1st round pick players or Darrisaw around 10ish and signing a vet?

We've seen the contracts that Veach likes to hand out. It's likely a one year deal or overpaying for multiple years.

We've all discussed the Watkins, Hitchens, and Clark deals to death. But Joe Thuney? He's a good player. But is a 29 year old OG worth five years at 16mil/year? Sure, it's only a 4mil cap hit this year. But next year its 17.8 then 18.9. The last two years are 19.9 each and have a potential out. But that'll come with a ~7mil dead cap hit. I can't imagine us not cutting him for cap relief.

To put it in another perspective: Next year we are currently on track to have ~18mil in cap space. We have 23 players under contract. It takes 53 to field a team. 18mil between 30 players doesn't go very far. Sure, moves will be made and other guys will get cut. But it's making the problem worse by kicking the can down the road. We have to get cheaper and way less top heavy in contracts. You do that by drafting well and developing talent.

Take a peek for yourself at the future cap if you're interested: Spotrac

Sorry, I'm starting a Veach contract/cap rant again.

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57 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

To play the other side: if we got a stud LT like CD the oline is set (for the most part) for the next 5 years. Pat can do his thing with very little worry of having a repeat Super Bowl situation. 

It's the trade compensation that I am talking about. I really like Darrisaw, don't get me wrong, but what would it take to trade up and get him?

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1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

Sorry, I'm starting a Veach contract/cap rant again.

Rant away.  It makes me feel good I’m not the only one.   
 

Take away Mahomes from this team,  and Veach very well could be on the hot seat.    
 

My thoughts on trading multiple 1st + for Darrisaw,  goes back to my complaints on Thuney.   Great player,  mortgages future flexibility.     Mahomes ain’t 30,  part of the reason we’re in the spot we are currently in, is because they went all in last year without regards to fixing this years holes.  Doing it again will put us in the same situation next year 

 

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1 hour ago, nicfre2011 said:

It's the trade compensation that I am talking about. I really like Darrisaw, don't get me wrong, but what would it take to trade up and get him?

Look what we gave to draft Mahomes. Christian Darrisaw would need comparable compensation. There are only 3 OT's worthy of that. There are lots of GOOD OT's this draft, but only 3 elite ones.

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3 minutes ago, samsel23 said:

part of the reason we’re in the spot we are currently in, is because they went all in last year without regards to fixing this years holes.

We're in a position to fix most of our issues with common sense drafting.  Obviously fixing L. OT is glaring, but not "unfixable". Yeah we have to give up our #1 next year. But to get a player of Darrisaw's caliber is worth it to some GM's.

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19 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

Look what we gave to draft Mahomes. Christian Darrisaw would need comparable compensation. There are only 3 OT's worthy of that. They are "start him and forget it" guys. There are lots of GOOD OT's this draft, but only 3 elite ones.

I'm starting to fall more in line with this as far as the OT prospects. While it IS a deep Tackle class, I'm not seeing many solid Left Tackle prospects. Seems like all the ones we're able to draft are tweeners that a lot of folks are wanting on the Right side only or to just kick inside ultimately.  

And I'm not disagreeing with some of the points that @samsel23 @nicfre2011 or @kingseanjohn are saying either. Just trying to gauge where things are heading given who our GM is versus what we need. Veach tried to lure Big Trent away with a, I'm sure, large sum of cash but failed. He seems bound and determined to fill that spot on the line at all costs. Wouldn't surprise me at all for Veach to get aggressive.

Edited by Chiefs_5627
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3 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

We're in a position to fix most of our issues with common sense drafting.  Obviously fixing L. OT is glaring, but not "unfixable". Yeah we have to give up our #1 next year. But to get a player of Darrisaw's caliber is worth it to some GM's.

Trading a first to fix most of our issues,   Kind it proves my point we’d just be mortgaging our future to fix holes in the current year.  
 

Look at our roster for 2022 and than see if it’s going to be same situation as this year next offseason,  minus a 1st round pick.     
 

The top of our roster,  is one of the tops in the league.    The middle/bottom is not very good,  mainly because our drafts haven’t been that good.. but also because Veach and Co. were trading picks away like candy( I will give them,  they do go after their guys though)

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1 hour ago, nicfre2011 said:

It's the trade compensation that I am talking about. I really like Darrisaw, don't get me wrong, but what would it take to trade up and get him?

And that's fair, truly. Maybe I'm just sour from the SB yet but I want that LT spot filled with someone with the potential to keep Patty safe for the next 10 years and I just think throwing a prospect that we, basically, settle for seems more uncertain. I just hope Veach can walk the line more and still fill the spot without mining from the future. Guess time will tell 🤷

Edited by Chiefs_5627
Words and stuff 🤦
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17 minutes ago, samsel23 said:

Look at our roster for 2022 and than see if it’s going to be same situation as this year next offseason,  minus a 1st round pick.  

But we wouldn't have to touch the Oline. Mahomes will have one of the NFL's best.

We can still get EDGE, S, Mike LB, WR, etc., THIS DRAFT.

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7 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

But we wouldn't have to touch the Oline. Mahomes will have one of the NFL's best.

We can still get EDGE, S, Mike LB, WR, etc., THIS DRAFT.

OL would most likely still be a need next year even with Darrisaw,  most of our current guys are all on 1 year deals.   Sure we could bring some of them back,  but again that kind of falls in line with how much we are paying the top of our roster.  
 

The odds of hitting on a guy at all those positions are very low in one draft,   especially for Veach (who has been an average drafter, sans last year).  

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8 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

And that's fair, truly. Maybe I'm just sour from the SB yet but I want that LT spot filled with someone with the potential to keep Patty safe for the next 10 years and I just think throwing a prospect that we, basically, settle for seems more uncertain. I just hope Veach can walk the line more and still fill the spot without mining from the future. Guess time will tell 🤷

If your goal is to win in 2021 with no care about 2022+, then yes, I agree that trading up is the right move. But we as fans don't always think 2-3 years ahead. That's why I urge people to look ahead at the cap situation. I mentioned the 2022 cap, but 2023 is just as bad, if not worse.

We have 12 players total under contract taking up ~149mil in cap space. That leaves us an estimated ~70mil to sign 41 players -- The average is better compared to 2021, right now. But this is before cuts which create dead cap space, extensions, and any other overpriced vets are added next year.

Right now it's: Mahomes(47mil), CEH(3mil), Hill(21mil), Hardman(1.6mil), Kelce(14.6mil), Thuney(18.9mil), Niang(1.2mil), Clark(27.8mil), Jones(27mil), Danna(1mil), Hitchens(12.7mil), Gay(1.4mil), Sneed(1.2mil), Keyes(1mil), and Butker(4.4mil). Some of those numbers look a little different than the others... Draft picks. We must stop overpaying for vets and get back to and being better at drafting/developing talent.

Hell, in 2024 we have FIVE players signed that take up 85+mil in cap space. Wait, I may be misunderstood here. I am not just saying that only five players take up that much space; but rather we only have five players under contract and those five players are that much of the cap! Mahomes(29 years old), Kelce(35yo), Thuney(32yo), Niang(26yo), and Butker(29yo). That's not a recipe for long term success. *Note: whoever we draft this year will be added here, which is why we need more picks, not less*

And again, I get that things will happen between now and then. But we can't keep doing what we're doing and expect long term success with Mahomes led teams.

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I still think the plan is to bring back Fisher anyways.    Veach works in tiers.  After Williams fell through,  I think Fisher was be next best OT and he was content waiting it out 
 

The thing with Thuney,  is he does give you flexibility.  You can line him up at LT for 3-4 weeks if we need to,  and flip him back inside later in the year.  

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19 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

But we wouldn't have to touch the Oline. Mahomes will have one of the NFL's best.

We can still get EDGE, S, Mike LB, WR, etc., THIS DRAFT.

As @samsel23hinted at, our current OL in 2022 only has four guys under contract total. Thuney, Allegretti, Niang, and Durant. If we get Darrisaw, he'd be five. But we can get someone else to play LT without trading up and still have a 3rd-4th + next years 1st to add help at another position on a rookie deal.

 

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