Rebuilding the OL

[onejayhawk]

It's a deep OT class, but it definitely leans to the right. There are a lot of developmental guys, eg Brown and Forsythe, that may become LT, but that's not quite the same thing. I can see Forsythe going before #63, but not so much Brown. Both need a fair amount of work, but you have to love the potential. 

J

[Habbsawce]

Didn't go through the whole thread, and I assume this has been discussed in which I apologize. But, I read somewhere that there's a possibility of re-signing Fisher on the cheap after he's healed up.

What are the thoughts on that? Obviously there are variables.

[onejayhawk]

Fisher is one of several veterans. Villanueva and Okung are probably the best and both three years older, but don't have the major injury. Realistically, there are no good options available in free agency, just quick fixes. Other than Sewell and arguably Darrisaw, there are no good options in the draft. One way or another, the Chiefs will have to do some magic.

J

[chiefs82]

10 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

Fisher is one of several veterans. Villanueva and Okung are probably the best and both three years older, but don't have the major injury. Realistically, there are no good options available in free agency, just quick fixes. Other than Sewell and arguably Darrisaw, there are no good options in the draft. One way or another, the Chiefs will have to do some magic.

J

My biggest fear is the OTs that will be left towards the end of the 1st round are all RT. 
 

inwoukdnt bet against Veach going to get a Darrishaw if he starts to slide

[onejayhawk]

1 hour ago, chiefs82 said:

My biggest fear is the OTs that will be left towards the end of the 1st round are all RT. 
inwoukdnt bet against Veach going to get a Darrishaw if he starts to slide

One of the reasons that the Patriots always traded out of the first round is that teams will overpay for starters. That made the less expensive 2nd round players more talented in the long term. 

It is basically a given that whoever we draft at #31, assuming he is an OT, will not be ready to step in and play. Consequently, it is better to take the long view and get a high upside player who will be a backup his first year. It's also very possible that the team looks in a different direction. We lost two of our top four DE to free agency and did not sign anyone of note.

J

[Jakuvious]

12 hours ago, Habbsawce said:

Didn't go through the whole thread, and I assume this has been discussed in which I apologize. But, I read somewhere that there's a possibility of re-signing Fisher on the cheap after he's healed up.

What are the thoughts on that? Obviously there are variables.

I'm not a big fan of the timeline, for it. In all likelihood, Fisher will miss most of the season. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with just rolling with a stopgap for that long. At that point, I'd rather just get a long term prospect at LT.

The possibility I might be comfortable with, would be if the team is confident in Niang at LT, and we roll with Niang at LT and Remmers as a stopgap at RT, and then bring back one of Schwartz/Fisher to replace Remmers, and go with either Fish/Niang or Niang/Schwartz. But that assumes a lot. It only works if the team is really freaking sold on Niang, because Remmers, the logical backup plan, would have to start most of the year, so if Niang is crap, you're stuck at LT for most of the year. Ultimately, I think it just relies on too much optimism. You have to hope Niang is good, you have to hope Fish does heal up well, you have to hope that Remmers or someone else can hold up in the meantime. And you still don't have a long term plan at one of those spots.

It's best to assume that Fisher/Schwartz are off the table, even if they aren't, and plan to proceed accordingly, be it a LT as a high draft pick or an Okung/Villanueva, or both. If we hit late in the season and we have an injury or an underperformer and Fisher is out there and healthy, cool. But I think the key is to not count on it.

[Habbsawce]

8 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

I'm not a big fan of the timeline, for it. In all likelihood, Fisher will miss most of the season. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with just rolling with a stopgap for that long. At that point, I'd rather just get a long term prospect at LT.

The possibility I might be comfortable with, would be if the team is confident in Niang at LT, and we roll with Niang at LT and Remmers as a stopgap at RT, and then bring back one of Schwartz/Fisher to replace Remmers, and go with either Fish/Niang or Niang/Schwartz. But that assumes a lot. It only works if the team is really freaking sold on Niang, because Remmers, the logical backup plan, would have to start most of the year, so if Niang is crap, you're stuck at LT for most of the year. Ultimately, I think it just relies on too much optimism. You have to hope Niang is good, you have to hope Fish does heal up well, you have to hope that Remmers or someone else can hold up in the meantime. And you still don't have a long term plan at one of those spots.

It's best to assume that Fisher/Schwartz are off the table, even if they aren't, and plan to proceed accordingly, be it a LT as a high draft pick or an Okung/Villanueva, or both. If we hit late in the season and we have an injury or an underperformer and Fisher is out there and healthy, cool. But I think the key is to not count on it.

Where is Kyle Long going to play? I assume he'll be playing tackle with Thuney and LDT at guard. I can't imagine he's coming out of retirement to be a backup, but who knows.

I'm also assuming they're going to use their first pick on someone like Cosmi who would fight for RT.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Habbsawce

[Jakuvious]

3 hours ago, Habbsawce said:

Where is Kyle Long going to play? I assume he'll be playing tackle with Thuney and LDT at guard. I can't imagine he's coming out of retirement to be a backup, but who knows.

I'm also assuming they're going to use their first pick on someone like Cosmi who would fight for RT.

There's too many bodies if you're thinking Long, a first round pick, Niang, and Remmers all would play OT, in addition to potentially bringing one of the guys back. If you're expecting the first round pick to fight for RT, you also basically have a 4 deep depth chart at RT, at that point with no one going into the season at LT.

If we add a vet or take a guy in the first round, they will be the plan at LT. Only way it works, unless the team is unreasonably high on Niang, at this point.

Based on the contract, Long just looks like G depth. And upgrade over Wylie behind Thuney and LDT. Can maybe compete with LDT if he's in prime form. Even if they wanted him at OT, though, he's only played RT, Niang was a RT in college, and Remmers was dramatically better at RT than LT, so you just have a logjam there.

[onejayhawk]

My best guess for the week #1 starting OL is Niang/Thuney/Blythe/Long/ Remmers with second guess being Niang/Thuney/Blythe/LDT/Long. If Long cannot beat out either LDT or Remmers, then his comeback is at an end. I suspect Blythe is insurance for Allegretti relearning the position. If not, then Allegretti is in the mix for RG. 

J

[mayanfootball]

Focus, Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama. Leatherwood was a solid 1st. round pick last year before Alex decided to return to Alabama for the 2020 season.

Here's some 2021 Pro Day results:

The 2020 Outland Trophy Winner measured in at 6-foot-5, 312 pounds. He posted a 85 3/8-inch wingspan (98th percentile) and a 34.5-inch vertical leap (98th percentile). He ran a 4.96 40-yard dash (94th percentile) and posted a 9-foot, 10-inch broad jump (99th percentile). 

Additionally Alex has hands 10.36", arms 34.36"

I find these results quite compelling. Alex should make a fine player anywhere along the Oline at OG or OT.

Additionally, I find Alex Leatherwood has leaped over Sam Cosmi as far as who the Chiefs should draft at #31.

Edited April 19, 2021 by mayanfootball

[kingseanjohn]

4 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

Additionally, I find Alex Leatherwood has leaped over Sam Cosmi as far as who the Chiefs should draft at #31.

I just don't see it with Leatherwood. I have him rated in the 2nd-3rd round range.

[onejayhawk]

Leatherwood was not a solid first round pick in 2020. Of course, neither was Austin Jackson and he went top 20. Regardless, he did not hurt his draft status by returning for another year. He has always been a physical specimen who never played to the level of the tape and stopwatch. In this case, you cannot blame the coaching or the competition. 

3 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

I just don't see it with Leatherwood. I have him rated in the 2nd-3rd round range.

Concur. I could accept Leatherwood as the second round pick, but I would not like it.

J

[mayanfootball]

2 minutes ago, kingseanjohn said:

I just don't see it with Leatherwood. I have him rated in the 2nd-3rd round range.

Man, I love the 84" wingspan. It helps being able to extend that much on the outside.

And the Pro Day results are as good or better than Sam Cosmi.

[kingseanjohn]

9 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

Man, I love the 84" wingspan. It helps being able to extend that much on the outside.

And the Pro Day results are as good or better than Sam Cosmi.

Leatherwood has 34 3/8" arms and Cosmi had 33". Not that big of a difference. Wingspan doesn't matter as much to me because they aren't playing with their arms out wide. OL play should be in front of you.

Leatherwood ran the 40 and got measured. He didn't participate in the bench press, shuttle, or cone drills, which both are more informative for his position. His tape showed he has issues adjusting in space and he had issues with power rushers iirc. By skipping the bench and agility type drills, it looks like he's just trying to hide his weaknesses and shine through his physical measurements and 40 time.

In comparison, Cosmi did all the drills and excelled in each one. And by excelled, he was almost the best ever using the RAS measurement. But I'm a tape guy and Cosmi meets the eye test imo and the pro day testing confirms it. He definitely has things to work on, but so does everyone else.

 

[mayanfootball]

1 hour ago, kingseanjohn said:

I just don't see it with Leatherwood. I have him rated in the 2nd-3rd round range.

Love the measurements. He's also dang athletic. Yes, he's a better run blocker than pass. But his size makes him difficult to get around. And his run blocking is crushing.

His composite explosion grade beats Cosmi. Vertical jump 34.5"? !! Almost 10' broad jump? !!

He can be coached up in the pass sets, IMO

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by mayanfootball