2021 Free Agency Thread NFL/MIN

[Ozzy]

9 minutes ago, NoDakViking said:

I get all that.  I also remember reports that Sloter was literally getting his own play calls wrong in the huddle so who knows....

A common defense I've heard is that Mannion helps Cousins prepare and therefore makes him better despite offering next to nothing on the field.  I always thought that was bunk.  Shouldn't Cousins be enough of a veteran that he can do all that on his own?  Or even help instill some of these prep habits into a young, developing QB?

In other words, I agree QB2 could use a major upgrade, but I also don't think Sloter is that guy.

Sure Sloter is probably not the guy, just saying if he was cheap I would not be against it considering what we have and let them fight it out.  I do not know how he related to teammates or how well or how poorly he grasped the playbook.  Maybe they have great faith in Stanley who knows but until one of those backup QBs shows out in the preseason, I have little faith in them during the regular season.  Heinicke at times showed out in the preseason and it does mean a little something and is not totally meaningless.

I agree if Mannion helps Cousins prepare well maybe he should look for another guy to prepare with because not sure what great amazing insight Mannion could provide but who knows.  Maybe he studies well, still he is not paid to coach he is paid to go in and be something when the starter goes down.  I hope they do not resign him but regardless hopefully the Vikings do something with the QB position in terms of a developmental/backup QB.

 

 

 

Bisi Johnson had what 14 catches 189 yards last year, Jakobi Meyers had 59 catches and 729 yards last year.  I disliked the Bisi Johnson pick and made it known, brought up they could have selected Jakobi Meyers instead who was a UDFA by the Patriots.  So I am not totally full of ****.  

[swede700]

11 hours ago, Ozzy said:

So stats mean nothing and preseason means nothing in terms of development of players that have no minor league system to play in?

It means more than nothing, but not much more than nothing when the only experience in the preseason that you have is against mostly guys that will never play a regular season down in the NFL.

[vikesfan89]

Maybe they plan on drafting 1 backup/ developmental qb in the mid rounds.  Isn't there reports of them scouting some? 

[swede700]

10 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

Maybe they plan on drafting 1 backup/ developmental qb in the mid rounds.  Isn't there reports of them scouting some? 

It would be wise of them to do so...the late round/UDFA guys they've been taking flyers on really haven't developed at all.  

[vikingsrule]

2 minutes ago, swede700 said:

It would be wise of them to do so...the late round/UDFA guys they've been taking flyers on really haven't developed at all.  

How many actually do? 

[VikeManDan]

25 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

Maybe they plan on drafting 1 backup/ developmental qb in the mid rounds.  Isn't there reports of them scouting some? 

I believe they were down at Kellen Mond's Pro-Day.

[swede700]

19 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

How many actually do? 

I'm not even asking for them to develop them into a starter...as many as they've had you would think that at least one they could develop into a solid backup, at the very least.  

In the 5th round or later, you have guys like Kevin Hogan, Brett Hundley, AJ McCarron, TJ Yates, Gardner Minshew, Nate Sudfeld, Brandon Allen, Ryan Lindley, Tyrod Taylor, or a Trevor Siemian.  

 The closest they've had to developing anyone into even a backup was Joe Webb...and that was 11 yrs ago.  Otherwise, you have to go back to the pre-Spielman days of Shaun Hill and Brad Johnson.

[Ozzy]

7 hours ago, swede700 said:

It means more than nothing, but not much more than nothing when the only experience in the preseason that you have is against mostly guys that will never play a regular season down in the NFL.

So college football is worthless then as well, why not just go to the NFL right out of high school?  That sounds better?  Pretty sure a preseason game has better competition than a college football game in most cases, especially if you take out the top programs.

[swede700]

11 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

So college football is worthless then as well, why not just go to the NFL right out of high school?  That sounds better?  Pretty sure a preseason game has better competition than a college football game in most cases, especially if you take out the top programs.

That isn't even close to what I said. A preseason game means more than a college game, but it still doesn't tell you how he'd perform against the 1st stringers or backups, so his success in the preseason is rather meaningless as to the overall picture.  Success or failure in the preseason tells you little about what a guy would do in the regular season...For example, Peyton Manning was often terrible in the preseason.  Preseason play is similar to being a weekend warrior.  I'm a weekend warrior when it comes to home improvement, but I'd be absolutely terrible doing it full-time...I'm no @vike daddy.

[KeithVikings28]

7 hours ago, vikesfan89 said:

Maybe they plan on drafting 1 backup/ developmental qb in the mid rounds.  Isn't there reports of them scouting some? 

Davis Mills

[meixdaddy_10]

6 hours ago, swede700 said:

I'm not even asking for them to develop them into a starter...as many as they've had you would think that at least one they could develop into a solid backup, at the very least.  

In the 5th round or later, you have guys like Kevin Hogan, Brett Hundley, AJ McCarron, TJ Yates, Gardner Minshew, Nate Sudfeld, Brandon Allen, Ryan Lindley, Tyrod Taylor, or a Trevor Siemian.  

 The closest they've had to developing anyone into even a backup was Joe Webb...and that was 11 yrs ago.  Otherwise, you have to go back to the pre-Spielman days of Shaun Hill and Brad Johnson.

How  many of the QBs that we've drafted to not be the immediate starter were ever kept on the team for very long? Was it because they werent very good? Ponder, Bridgewater, and Tarvaris were all thrown in almost immediately, so they didnt really have time to "develop".

Was it because we've only drafted 3 guys past the 2nd RD in the last 20 years to groom as backups? Booty, Thigpen, and Stanley. It's hard to develop one if you dont take many to develop. Was that because we have generally only kept 2 QBs on the roster the last how many years so we had more depth at other spots? When we've only kept 2 we've made sure to have had an experienced backup. Why waste a pick on a good developmental QB then?

How many developmental guys that we've drafted since Joe Webb have ever been given an actual chance to prove they were solid backup material? Minshew only became Minshew because he was given a chance at actual playing time. Had he not had that opportunity would we really even know about him? Same as the others. Most are from crappy teams that had injuries that thrust them into the lineup. Plus they likely kept 3 QBs on the roster in case something like that happened.

So there are lots of factors are at play here. 

This is absolutely the best year to grab one at 14 if you like them and they are available...or if possible, trade back and get a 2nd RD Pick and grab a Mond, Mills, or Trask and see what they can do. Having Cousins as your starter is a perfect chance at taking a QB to develop for 2 years. He stays healthy and allows that time to not be thrust into the starting lineup due to injury or beyond terrible play (he's definitely had his moments though 😃). It's just up to Zimmer and Speilman to take a chance on someone and not settle on signing an already experienced QB. With them being on the hot seat this year Im not sure they take one at 14. I think they want an immediate starter at that pick. So hopefully the trade back option works! Cross your fingers!

[wcblack34]

12 hours ago, meixdaddy_10 said:

How  many of the QBs that we've drafted to not be the immediate starter were ever kept on the team for very long? Was it because they werent very good? Ponder, Bridgewater, and Tarvaris were all thrown in almost immediately, so they didnt really have time to "develop".

Was it because we've only drafted 3 guys past the 2nd RD in the last 20 years to groom as backups? Booty, Thigpen, and Stanley. It's hard to develop one if you dont take many to develop. Was that because we have generally only kept 2 QBs on the roster the last how many years so we had more depth at other spots? When we've only kept 2 we've made sure to have had an experienced backup. Why waste a pick on a good developmental QB then?

How many developmental guys that we've drafted since Joe Webb have ever been given an actual chance to prove they were solid backup material? Minshew only became Minshew because he was given a chance at actual playing time. Had he not had that opportunity would we really even know about him? Same as the others. Most are from crappy teams that had injuries that thrust them into the lineup. Plus they likely kept 3 QBs on the roster in case something like that happened.

So there are lots of factors are at play here. 

This is absolutely the best year to grab one at 14 if you like them and they are available...or if possible, trade back and get a 2nd RD Pick and grab a Mond, Mills, or Trask and see what they can do. Having Cousins as your starter is a perfect chance at taking a QB to develop for 2 years. He stays healthy and allows that time to not be thrust into the starting lineup due to injury or beyond terrible play (he's definitely had his moments though 😃). It's just up to Zimmer and Speilman to take a chance on someone and not settle on signing an already experienced QB. With them being on the hot seat this year Im not sure they take one at 14. I think they want an immediate starter at that pick. So hopefully the trade back option works! Cross your fingers!

You said "Booty." Teehee. 

[Ozzy]

12 hours ago, meixdaddy_10 said:

How  many of the QBs that we've drafted to not be the immediate starter were ever kept on the team for very long? Was it because they werent very good? Ponder, Bridgewater, and Tarvaris were all thrown in almost immediately, so they didnt really have time to "develop".

Was it because we've only drafted 3 guys past the 2nd RD in the last 20 years to groom as backups? Booty, Thigpen, and Stanley. It's hard to develop one if you dont take many to develop. Was that because we have generally only kept 2 QBs on the roster the last how many years so we had more depth at other spots? When we've only kept 2 we've made sure to have had an experienced backup. Why waste a pick on a good developmental QB then?

How many developmental guys that we've drafted since Joe Webb have ever been given an actual chance to prove they were solid backup material? Minshew only became Minshew because he was given a chance at actual playing time. Had he not had that opportunity would we really even know about him? Same as the others. Most are from crappy teams that had injuries that thrust them into the lineup. Plus they likely kept 3 QBs on the roster in case something like that happened.

So there are lots of factors are at play here. 

This is absolutely the best year to grab one at 14 if you like them and they are available...or if possible, trade back and get a 2nd RD Pick and grab a Mond, Mills, or Trask and see what they can do. Having Cousins as your starter is a perfect chance at taking a QB to develop for 2 years. He stays healthy and allows that time to not be thrust into the starting lineup due to injury or beyond terrible play (he's definitely had his moments though 😃). It's just up to Zimmer and Speilman to take a chance on someone and not settle on signing an already experienced QB. With them being on the hot seat this year Im not sure they take one at 14. I think they want an immediate starter at that pick. So hopefully the trade back option works! Cross your fingers!

Solid backup material, how about solid starter material.  Jimmy G was obviously a backup in New England and is now a starter in the NFL and has been for awhile.  Taysom Hill might get a chance to start for the Saints and he was just a gadget player for awhile.  Kirk Cousins obviously was drafted as a backup to RGIII and his injury history, things have worked out well for him.  Ryan Fitzpatrick was clearly drafted as a backup developmental guy and has been a starter for multiple organizations in the NFL.  Jacoby Brissett has started when he needed to and is another developmental QB out of New England.  Nick Foles was not an instant starter in the NFL, developmental guy and has done a few good things obviously.  And Minshew like you said but yeah he is not going to be the starter anywhere this up coming year and is probably just a backup guy unless a team really needs a QB.

 

I agree taking a QB and just develop them behind Kirk would be great and a smart move compared to just waiting till disaster happens.  Ideally could wait till the 3rd for that but those guys could all be gone by then.

 

But yeah with how the NFL QB rooms are getting stacked with so many guys playing into their 40s, it is hard to find a place on some teams.  But many times other organizations draft a guy in the mid to later rounds and they turn out to be really solid players and starters in the league.  Sure the Vikings have not really done that, well ever recently.  Sure Randall and Jeff George were backups on the team that became starters but both were already starters before they came to Minnesota on another team and were drafted pretty high.  And that is just looking at NFL rosters now, go back 5 or 10 years and looking at those rosters obviously other guys as later round picks have had starting success in the NFL.

 

Still it is a miracle that Kirk has not go hurt over these past few years with how much he has go hit, if he went down they would be screwed.  There is no Case Keenum coming in, I guess there is one guy Vikings brought in and he actually had success as a backup QB for the team and they played well with him in there.  Clearly does not happen all that much.  Has a 3 year $18 mil contract with the Browns, which is a lot and with Kirk's contract the Vikings cannot really do that, Browns will not be able to either but Mayfield is still on his rookie deal.

[SemperFeist]

 

[VikeManDan]

Saw @Krauser's tweet about this yesterday and thought it was worth mentioning because I didn't know this.

"Historically, unrestricted free agents would count against the compensatory formula all the way into June. Now, at 4:01 p.m. EST on the Monday following the 2021 NFL Draft, they no longer factor in. That means there is no penalty to a team signing an unrestricted free agent, and their compensatory pick situation will be unchanged. As a result, there should be a mini-wave of free agency right after the draft concludes."

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-remaining-2021-free-agents-contract-projections-free-agency