FA QB's for 2018

[jetskid007]

29 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Culture change? While I agree it’s better (could it have gotten any worse) we just had to bench our highest paid player and our 1st Rounder from a year ago for being late. Robby isn’t exactly keeping his mouth shut and just playing football either. So while it’s better. It’s not good.

 

Ricky is absolutely right. This was the year of culture change and youth movement. 

Culture is not one or two players. Culture is from an organizational standpoint. The Patriots have benched and sent players home from practice when they break the rules, but are you going to challenge their culture?

We're no longer the team with a splintered locker room. We don't have the vets who petitioned for certain players to start rather than going with the organizational mandate. We're no longer the butt of jokes and headlines in New York (the Giants have become that).The leaks are gone, and none of our players give the media the kind of stories they want that just end up fracturing the locker room. We've become a team, now we need to keep building on the foundation. 

[GangGreen420]

56 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

 

Ricky is absolutely right. This was the year of culture change and youth movement. 

Culture is not one or two players. Culture is from an organizational standpoint. The Patriots have benched and sent players home from practice when they break the rules, but are you going to challenge their culture?

We're no longer the team with a splintered locker room. We don't have the vets who petitioned for certain players to start rather than going with the organizational mandate. We're no longer the butt of jokes and headlines in New York (the Giants have become that).The leaks are gone, and none of our players give the media the kind of stories they want that just end up fracturing the locker room. We've become a team, now we need to keep building on the foundation. 

And what role did Bowles play in that? Simply being present?

The FO purged the roster. That’s all that happened. This “culture change” is way overstated.

and people still laugh at the Jets.

[Jag68Sid87]

People aren't laughing much at the Jets these days...they are too busy laughing at Cleveland, the Giants et al. 

 

We have done a lot this season to gain some respect.

[jetskid007]

1 hour ago, GangGreen420 said:

And what role did Bowles play in that? Simply being present?

The FO purged the roster. That’s all that happened. This “culture change” is way overstated.

and people still laugh at the Jets.

Bowles is known to be a disciplinarian and preached culture ever since he got here. It was tough because there were a lot of veteran holdovers that got used to the "Rex Ryan" way. Compare the players that were here before him (such as Wilkerson, Richardson) vs. the players that arrived with or after Bowles (Williams). HUGE difference. 

[rdelaney89]

4 hours ago, doumeyer said:

Lets see 2016 5 wins 11 losses    2017 5 wins 11 losses some improvement, and still no QB. And we are in last place again. After spending 8 years on defensive it should be much improved. The offensive is still bad no running game no QB, shaky  O line. The only coaching that is better is the OC, your boy Bowles is not HC material. And if Mac screws up this upcoming offseason he has to go. What is your love affair with Mac & Bowles, I don't get it. 

First off using wins/losses as justification for a bad GM without talking about the other moves he has made is sloppy. I don't think anyone believes this team is worse or equal to last years team. You also can't judge Macc for things that he doesn't control (like picking 5 years of defense before he got here). Want to complain about the 3 picks he's made in the first round? sure by all means but then explain which offensive player could have made more sense at the time. The running game hasn't been good but I think that has more to do with our Center play than the RB's themselves. Again Center would also be a huge reason why the rest of the OL looks bad. I really don't believe it will be hard to get a center in FA or the draft depending on how we want to handle the QB situation, we have the money and picks.

 

I could care less about Bowles, I don't think he deserves to be fired yet though. I think this team exceeded it's talent level for the 2nd time in 3 years. I don't believe there is a candidate out there that is clearly better than Bowles. If Sean Payton became available the sure by all means but I don't think there is an option like that out there. Keeping Bowles shows that the Johnson's are clearly willing to give a regime time to turn a team around. I think if Bowles is canned after 3 years we will not be looked at a safe spot for a coach to want to land. I think Macc will have an opportunity to bring in his own coach if the players continue to play well. So I'm not gung hoe for Bowles because he has made some pretty bad decisions in games. I do think there is a certain learning curve involved with coaching, which is why I'm not a fan of starting the process all over again with the next hot coordinator. 

 

I do however like Macc so far, I'm really waiting on this offseason to make a determination based on QB. I've defended Macc's moves because I think there is a logical thought process that went into making a decision, I didn't feel like there was a plan with Tanny or Idzik. You can knock the big contracts year 1 but it's sad how bad we were that final year with Rex. With a new GM and coaching staff coming in they don't know the players and have to figure out if they fit into their future plans, they signed the FAs because it helps fill problem areas while Macc starts to draft his own guys. By the time those big contracts are up the players you drafted should be starting to come into their own. I don't believe that move cost us another player that we really wanted. 

People say his 2nd round picks suck; no, Hack was a bad selection. I think we can all admit we are happy with Maye. Devin Smith was a legit deep threat in college and would have benefited from having Geno in to see is he was the long term answer with a good team around him. Geno got knocked out (not Maccs fault) and then Smith who had been healthy his entire college career suffered 2 terrible knee injuries. Was he a bad pick for Macc, no I don't consider the pick bad, that is a freak injury that no one in their right mind could predict. It sucks but I don't think Macc's evaluation of the need for a deep threat was wrong. Heck he brought in Robby Anderson because he realized it was a problem. So in my mind 1 out of 3 picks were bad because of Macc. The Hack pick is really the only black eye for me in terms of his QB assessment, I do think he jumped at the opportunity to take a high upside/high risk QB and try to develop him since he knew he wanted Fitz back for at least 1 year to play out the vets final contracts. We could have kept the vets if they had played well and then tired again this year but he gave us the flexibility to get out of those deals this year if it all fell apart.

By the time the vet experiment is over you would ideally be adding young players who are going to be the core of your team. McCown was brought in as the bench mark/starter unless the young guys could beat him out. Considering McCown's record I would say they wanted Hack to win to competition. They did one drive with McCown to make sure he could run the offense and then gave the keys to Hack for the remaining 3.5 games. Unfortunately Hack hasn't played well and it's McCown is clearly the best QB on the roster to allow you to grade the OL/RB/TE/WR and see how the defense looks if they aren't always on the field. With McCown's record you are thinking competent play that likely doesn't translate to wins. Hack is under contract for 2 more years, Macc realizes it was a bad pick so he begins scouting college QBs. He also gave us a massive amount of cap space, I believe he has had his eye on Kirk Cousins for a while (seems reinforced by the fact he wanted to trade for him year 1). 

Macc knows Sheldon needs to go and makes the deal for Kearse and a 2nd, this is a huge move because we wound up getting more ammo to potentially trade up for a QB or since it's a high pick should add another starter. We took Kearse because we had the cap space to take on his contract, this helps us replace Enunwa. In Mass'c mind at this point:

- Signed a QB that Hack should be able to beat out and worst case should drive us to 2 wins

- He'll be able to create $94M in cap space to make a run at Cousins. He realized that competent play would be the only way to lure him here since other teams will have money too. If Cousins doesn't pick us then we can go out and sign some young help.

- By having McCown you likely end up with a great pick to land a QB or you should be bad enough where your extra pick should make for a nice trade offer.

 

I didn't like trading out in the 3rd this year when the Center was right there but I understand that we had a young Center who played like an inexperienced player last year. Lets give him one shot before we sign or draft a new center. We pick up multiple players to help fill the punt/kick return slot with Marshall suspended. We were hoping that Alvin Kamara was going to fall 3 more picks to us and when that didn't happen I think we looked for the best trade back we could find.

I think a lot of people want to give him a bad rep by using hindsight to justify shortcomings. I also don't like that people look solely on his drafts as if it were his only way to acquire talent. Macc has managed to get us Ealy and ASJ off waivers, Claiborne and Beachum in FA, Kearse and Davis from trades, and Robby Anderson as an UDFA. I'm fine with his first round selections because he was making sure he hit on players, something the last 2 GMs didn't have much success at.

 IMO Macc has done a fine job, but this is his bread and butter year to take a swing at a QB. A year where that rookie QB won't be coming into at talentless team.

/endrant

[ekill08x]

On 12/11/2017 at 5:22 PM, Rockice_8 said:

Actually he was praised for his hard work in learning the playbook while in school even though it was tough for him.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2662128-the-education-of-lamar-jackson-how-louisville-qb-went-from-project-to-superstar

Honestly, great read. I have since tried to do more research on him, watch more film as well. Boy was I wrong and I am not even ashamed to say it. Lamar Jackson truly feels like a genuinely nice kid who loves the game. The camera wont be his friend at first because hes obviously not the most eloquent of speakers, but at least you get a humble young man that seems to have a good head on his shoulders. He is going to help build any locker room he is in if he can continue down that path and not let the spot light go to his head. If he is the best available when we select I would have a hard time not taking him. He is still raw as a passer, but there is a lot of potential there. 

[JetsandI]

50 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

People say his 2nd round picks suck; no, Hack was a bad selection. I think we can all admit we are happy with Maye. Devin Smith was a legit deep threat in college and would have benefited from having Geno in to see is he was the long term answer with a good team around him. Geno got knocked out (not Maccs fault) and then Smith who had been healthy his entire college career suffered 2 terrible knee injuries. Was he a bad pick for Macc, no I don't consider the pick bad, that is a freak injury that no one in their right mind could predict. It sucks but I don't think Macc's evaluation of the need for a deep threat was wrong. Heck he brought in Robby Anderson because he realized it was a problem. So in my mind 1 out of 3 picks were bad because of Macc. The Hack pick is really the only black eye for me in terms of his QB assessment, I do think he jumped at the opportunity to take a high upside/high risk QB and try to develop him since he knew he wanted Fitz back for at least 1 year to play out the vets final contracts. We could have kept the vets if they had played well and then tired again this year but he gave us the flexibility to get out of those deals this year if it all fell apart.

 

 

 

Devin Smith and Macus Maye are the same story.  I don't like those picks because I don't consider them being 1st round leftovers.  Both had health issues in NCAA and got picked this high ahead of a several 1st round leftovers. Smith failed to make strong contribution for Jets and Maye is about to finish a rookie campaign for Jets.   Hackenberg was taken in the middle of 2nd round which is fine but I don't like him as a prospect myself.

 

2015 - Devin Smith over Dorial Green-Beckham and Benardrick McKinney. 

2017 - Marcus Maye over Dalvin Cook and Tyus Bowser.

 

I have no idea how those "1st round leftovers" have turned out but I ain't cheating anything to make a point. Sure, Macc and his company had different big board than mine but the idea of him gambling on talents with injury history over the leftovers is horrendously disturbing. Hell, he should take Sidney Jones for long term consideration. I don't praise Maccagnan for Maye's solid rookie year yet because S position has short life as an above average player.

[rdelaney89]

10 minutes ago, JetsandI said:

 

Devin Smith and Macus Maye are the same story.  I don't like those picks because I don't consider them being 1st round leftovers.  Both had health issues in NCAA and got picked this high ahead of a several 1st round leftovers. Smith failed to make strong contribution for Jets and Maye is about to finish a rookie campaign for Jets.   Hackenberg was taken in the middle of 2nd round which is fine but I don't like him as a prospect myself.

 

2015 - Devin Smith over Dorial Green-Beckham and Benardrick McKinney. 

2017 - Marcus Maye over Dalvin Cook and Tyus Bowser.

 

I have no idea how those "1st round leftovers" have turned out but I ain't cheating anything to make a point. Sure, Macc and his company had different big board than mine but the idea of him gambling on talents with injury history over the leftovers is horrendously disturbing. Hell, he should take Sidney Jones for long term consideration. I don't praise Maccagnan for Maye's solid rookie year yet because S position has short life as an above average player.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate about Safeties having a shorter life. 

Average NFL Career

Average NFL Career By Position

I think your prospects at those spots are reasonable, I do think there were reasons we opted with other players though.

 

DGB was an athletic freak so rolling the dice would have been okay but I think given his off the field troubles and dedication questions I don't think he was on our big board. McKinney has had a nice career but I think we were so in need of a deep threat. I also think we wanted to give Demario another chance before spending a pick on a LB.

Same thing goes for Cook, I loved him and there was a point where I lobbied for him in the first (prior to us bombing last season) Upon learning of his off the field issues I think he was removed from our board. Macc wanted Kamara this year so I think he does view RB as a need just not at the expense of adding a negative off the field personality. I was confused by the Maye pick but I think he's proven to be a better player than Bowser.

 

 

[JetsandI]

5 minutes ago, rdelaney89 said:

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate about Safeties having a shorter life. 

Average NFL Career

Average NFL Career By Position

I think your prospects at those spots are reasonable, I do think there were reasons we opted with other players though.

 

DGB was an athletic freak so rolling the dice would have been okay but I think given his off the field troubles and dedication questions I don't think he was on our big board. McKinney has had a nice career but I think we were so in need of a deep threat. I also think we wanted to give Demario another chance before spending a pick on a LB.

Same thing goes for Cook, I loved him and there was a point where I lobbied for him in the first (prior to us bombing last season) Upon learning of his off the field issues I think he was removed from our board. Macc wanted Kamara this year so I think he does view RB as a need just not at the expense of adding a negative off the field personality. I was confused by the Maye pick but I think he's proven to be a better player than Bowser.

 

 

That statistic doesn't tell you how many same S that have been above average players for many years.  Not all S have been that way for straight years.  Many S have about 3 or 4 solid years in their whole career in NFL. 

[Bobby816]

A bad pick doesn’t always mean the guy you got was bad. It means the other guys that were on the board that they skipped out on. Minnesota just picked off our mistakes this last draft. Round 2 Cook. You say Smith wasn’t s bad pick that injuries just are unfortunate. Cook was atop te NFL as a rookie RB before he got injured. So no Maye isn’t bad, but Cook would be better. Elflein in Round 3. We have a hole at C and the best C in the draft fell to us in Round 3, yet we trade the pick away so Minnesota can draft him. We also traded away our 4th Rounder to move back and that pick was Perine. These aren’t  hindsight situations. Literally these guys had every right to be a Jet and Macc skipped on all of them. That’s just this draft. I’ll do this for the other drafts as well if you want?

[JetsandI]

32 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

A bad pick doesn’t always mean the guy you got was bad. It means the other guys that were on the board that they skipped out on. Minnesota just picked off our mistakes this last draft. Round 2 Cook. You say Smith wasn’t s bad pick that injuries just are unfortunate. Cook was atop te NFL as a rookie RB before he got injured. So no Maye isn’t bad, but Cook would be better. Elflein in Round 3. We have a hole at C and the best C in the draft fell to us in Round 3, yet we trade the pick away so Minnesota can draft him. We also traded away our 4th Rounder to move back and that pick was Perine. These aren’t  hindsight situations. Literally these guys had every right to be a Jet and Macc skipped on all of them. That’s just this draft. I’ll do this for the other drafts as well if you want?

Elflein has a bad start this year. What odds would we the fans talk about him as 3rd round bust? lol. 

 

I don't know if Perine wasn't on Macc's BB but he should be the pick right there even though I am cool with Chad Hansen.

[jetskid007]

Way too early to be judging last year's draft class. As far as I'm concerned, the only one we can actually judge is 2015. Who's to say that Maye doesn't become the next Landon Collins and Cook the next TJ Yeldon? We live in an instantaneous and reactionary world, but Need at least 2-3 years before you can start staying what we did/didn't do wrong. Just look at RGIII. 

[rdelaney89]

9 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

A bad pick doesn’t always mean the guy you got was bad. It means the other guys that were on the board that they skipped out on. Minnesota just picked off our mistakes this last draft. Round 2 Cook. You say Smith wasn’t s bad pick that injuries just are unfortunate. Cook was atop te NFL as a rookie RB before he got injured. So no Maye isn’t bad, but Cook would be better. Elflein in Round 3. We have a hole at C and the best C in the draft fell to us in Round 3, yet we trade the pick away so Minnesota can draft him. We also traded away our 4th Rounder to move back and that pick was Perine. These aren’t  hindsight situations. Literally these guys had every right to be a Jet and Macc skipped on all of them. That’s just this draft. I’ll do this for the other drafts as well if you want?

Cooks was a great prospect, unfortunately he was in trouble every single year in college. Given the issues we had last season I don't think he was on our board. Some teams can get away with bad eggs, I don't think our team is at that point yet.

Our trade back with the Vikings netted us ArDarius Stewart, Dylan Donahue, and Elijah McGuire. I do think it is too early to write those guys off and say it was a bad move. Johnson got his shot to be our Center of the future and he's failed miserably. I do think Macc addresses that problem at some point this offseason. 

For what its worth pro football focus ranks Elflein the 28th best center Pat Elflein PFF Grade

[jetfan8178]

I had to skip a lot of replies because honestly its just more of the same.

We all need to realize this GM doesn't draft need. Unless one of the top 3 qb's is extremely impressive to us AND slides to us in the draft we wont be drafting a qb with our first pick.

I see us going OL and then looking for whoever slips to us late first (trade up) or second round.

I'm seeing us going into next season with a qb comp and hack and petty will be part of it. Mac is known to collect qb's

[doumeyer]

29 minutes ago, jetfan8178 said:

I had to skip a lot of replies because honestly its just more of the same.

We all need to realize this GM doesn't draft need. Unless one of the top 3 qb's is extremely impressive to us AND slides to us in the draft we wont be drafting a qb with our first pick.

I see us going OL and then looking for whoever slips to us late first (trade up) or second round.

I'm seeing us going into next season with a qb comp and hack and petty will be part of it. Mac is known to collect qb's

Part of your post is correct, but I think he will be forced to get a QB but with Mac who knows.