drfrey13 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: No doubt Buckner is a great player, I'm not debating that but paying a 3T 22 per year is not a smart move. They went out and drafted Kinlaw who they will have locked up for 5 years at a fraction of the price they would have had Buckner at. The jury is still out on Kinlaw but from a financial perspective it was the right thing to do. Similar to us moving on from Mack, it was the right thing to do, it's just a shame we squandered the picks. This was my thinking and I also preferred taking Kinlaw instead of Ruggs. I think Kinlaw is going to play at a high level this year. He will probably not end up as good as Buckner, although it is a possibility, but Kinlaw plus $68 million in cap space over 4 years is a good deal. Kinlaw just needs to be an above average 3T. Anything on top of that makes it a win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 3 hours ago, drfrey13 said: This was my thinking and I also preferred taking Kinlaw instead of Ruggs. I think Kinlaw is going to play at a high level this year. He will probably not end up as good as Buckner, although it is a possibility, but Kinlaw plus $68 million in cap space over 4 years is a good deal. Kinlaw just needs to be an above average 3T. Anything on top of that makes it a win. I have been pounding the table for a 3T for over a decade and our idiotic front office never addresses the issue. I wanted Kinlaw over Ruggs also and I agree with you that I think he plays well this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 6 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said: It's that simple? All you have to do is draft Dline man early and you'll have a good Dline? Give me a break. Talent evaluation has nothing to do with it? LOL They drafted Dline early and made many great picks (Bosa, Buckner, Armstead), that is why their Dline is good. There are plenty of Dlineman drafted early who are bums. You're downplaying what their front office has done to fit your narrative. Make excuses all you want about the Oline and running games success solely being attributed to KS but they have success and need the players to execute the plan/scheme. The combo they have is clearly working. They did a great job in landing Trent WIlliams, drafting McGlinchy and went out and signed Mack this offseason which was a smart move. Those moves are on the front office. No doubt Buckner is a great player, I'm not debating that but paying a 3T 22 per year is not a smart move. They went out and drafted Kinlaw who they will have locked up for 5 years at a fraction of the price they would have had Buckner at. The jury is still out on Kinlaw but from a financial perspective it was the right thing to do. Similar to us moving on from Mack, it was the right thing to do, it's just a shame we squandered the picks. I mean look it up. After harbaugh left. They drafted a defensive lineman every year in the first round. Couple that with the fact that they were picking top 10 in all of those drafts except for like one(last year) and the fact that they traded for Dee Ford (Who was also the first round pick in his draft and an established rusher). And then you have to also remember that they got the second pick overall for Nick Bosa because Garoppolo tore his ACL. Drafting Nick Bosa 2nd doesn’t take Front office prowess haha. 2015 armstead pick 17 2016 Buckner 7 2017 Thomas 3 2019 bosa 2 2020 kinkaw 12 You can do a lot when you have a defensive line of all first round picks(see the Washington football team for example LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 13 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I mean look it up. After harbaugh left. They drafted a defensive lineman every year in the first round. Couple that with the fact that they were picking top 10 in all of those drafts except for like one(last year) and the fact that they traded for Dee Ford (Who was also the first round pick in his draft and an established rusher). And then you have to also remember that they got the second pick overall for Nick Bosa because Garoppolo tore his ACL. Drafting Nick Bosa 2nd doesn’t take Front office prowess haha. 2015 armstead pick 17 2016 Buckner 7 2017 Thomas 3 2019 bosa 2 2020 kinkaw 12 You can do a lot when you have a defensive line of all first round picks(see the Washington football team for example LOL) Like I said we have drafted plenty of players in the 1st round and how have they turned out? You're making it sound like when they drafted all of these players they were all no brainers. Kudos to their front office for nailing picks like Bosa, Buckner and Armstead. Is the 9ers brass perfect, certanly not as all we have to do is look at Solomon Thomas who they cut bait with. Heck if nailing top 5/ 1st round DL players is as easy as you make it sound whats your excuse for Ferrell? Both former top 5 picks (Ferrell/ Thomas) along our Dline will be fighting for playing time on a Dline that has no true elite talents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 21 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: I mean look it up. After harbaugh left. They drafted a defensive lineman every year in the first round. Couple that with the fact that they were picking top 10 in all of those drafts except for like one(last year) and the fact that they traded for Dee Ford (Who was also the first round pick in his draft and an established rusher). And then you have to also remember that they got the second pick overall for Nick Bosa because Garoppolo tore his ACL. Drafting Nick Bosa 2nd doesn’t take Front office prowess haha. 2015 armstead pick 17 2016 Buckner 7 2017 Thomas 3 2019 bosa 2 2020 kinkaw 12 You can do a lot when you have a defensive line of all first round picks(see the Washington football team for example LOL) Would you be mad if the FO made those picks for us? We took 2015 - Cooper 2016 - Joseph 2017 - Conley 2019 - Ferrell 2020 - Ruggs I am thinking I would go with the 49ers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Like I said we have drafted plenty of players in the 1st round and how have they turned out? You're making it sound like when they drafted all of these players they were all no brainers. Kudos to their front office for nailing picks like Bosa, Buckner and Armstead. Is the 9ers brass perfect, certanly not as all we have to do is look at Solomon Thomas who they cut bait with. Heck if nailing top 5/ 1st round DL players is as easy as you make it sound whats your excuse for Ferrell? Both former top 5 picks (Ferrell/ Thomas) along our Dline will be fighting for playing time on a Dline that has no true elite talents. No I’m not saying that at all what I’m saying is that they used all but one of their first round picks all but two being in the top 10 pick on Dlineman(along with trading for one that was a first round pick and a establish pass rusher in his own right). No matter win which way you slice it, when that happens you are going to have a surplus at the position. and again you don’t nail drafting Bosa #2 overall. You get him for free when you’re QB tears his ACL So you play a whole season without the most important position in football and have a second worst win ratio in the entire NFL only to the other sorry team in your vision picking first overall. In order to see what the Niners are doing as amazing as ignore the fact that they drafted Solomon Thomas number three overall over Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson only to play him at a position he didn’t play in college after drafting to D lineman back to back before that and then still needing to draft a dlineman Second overall and trading for A pass rusher that had 13 Sacks the year before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Would you be mad if the FO made those picks for us? We took 2015 - Cooper 2016 - Joseph 2017 - Conley 2019 - Ferrell 2020 - Ruggs I am thinking I would go with the 49ers. 1. I never liked McKenzie so all of his picks outside of Mack I was never a fan of. 2. going only off of the Gruden and Mayock Era, I would take… Miller over McGlinchey(everyone ignores that one) Sure I would take Bosa over Ferrell, but we never had a chance at him. Mayock even acknowledge that he had Bosa over Ferrell(I also want to continue to say on record that I want to see what happens when Bosa doesn’t have Buckner and I would take ruggs and Arnette over kinkaw and Aiyuk for sure Edited July 31, 2021 by Jeremy408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: No I’m not saying that at all what I’m saying is that they used all but one of their first round picks all but two being in the top 10 pick on Dlineman(along with trading for one that was a first round pick and a establish pass rusher in his own right). No matter win which way you slice it, when that happens you are going to have a surplus at the position. and again you don’t nail drafting Bosa #2 overall. You get him for free when you’re QB tears his ACL So you play a whole season without the most important position in football and have a second worst win ratio in the entire NFL only to the other sorry team in your vision picking first overall. In order to see what the Niners are doing as amazing as ignore the fact that they drafted Solomon Thomas number three overall over Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson only to play him at a position he didn’t play in college after drafting to D lineman back to back before that and then still needing to draft a dlineman Second overall and trading for A pass rusher that had 13 Sacks the year before that. Is every GM and front office in the NFL incompetent in your opinion? I can go through every single draft and point out drafting errors by every team. You're trying to discredit what the 9ers front office has done by claiming they are not perfect years removed from a specific draft which is flat out laughable. Was every GM in the 2000 NFL draft incompetent because they didn't take Brady in the 1st round? That is the logic behind what you are saying. Edited July 31, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Is every GM and front office in the NFL incompetent in your opinion? I can go through every single draft and point out drafting errors by every team. You're trying to discredit what the 9ers front office has done by claiming they are not perfect years removed from a specific draft which is flat out laughable. Was every GM in the 2000 NFL draft incompetent because they didn't take Brady in the 1st round? That is the logic behind what you are saying. No definitely not. I don’t think I ever even inferred that. I’m not trying to discredit the good things I’ve done I’m just realistic in that I’m not gonna crowned them because they had one good year out of five and after overloading the dline with first round talent and then trading for another first round pick getting lucky because they had the number to pick overall they were able to get a player at a position that they already had a surplus at. And then I’m not going to call them This ahead of the curve organization because I’m going to also acknowledge that they’ve made some pretty boneheaded moves to. information if the Niners didn’t have the random Super Bowl run which is their only season of even being near the playoffs in the John Lynch era(and really the post harbaugh era) we would really look at them a lot like the way people look at Gruden/Mayock to be honest. That’s all lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 10 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: 1. I never liked McKenzie so all of his picks outside of Mack I was never a fan of. 2. going only off of the Gruden and Mayock Era, I would take… Miller over McGlinchey(everyone ignores that one) Sure I would take Bosa over Ferrell, but we never had a chance at him. Mayock even acknowledge that he had Bosa over Ferrell(I also want to continue to say on record that I want to see what happens when Bosa doesn’t have Buckner and I would take ruggs and Arnette over kinkaw and Aiyuk for sure If you think the Raiders overall roster is even in the same universe as the 9ers you're delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: No definitely not. I don’t think I ever even inferred that. I’m not trying to discredit the good things I’ve done I’m just realistic in that I’m not gonna crowned them because they had one good year out of five and after overloading the dline with first round talent and then trading for another first round pick getting lucky because they had the number to pick overall they were able to get a player at a position that they already had a surplus at. And then I’m not going to call them This ahead of the curve organization because I’m going to also acknowledge that they’ve made some pretty boneheaded moves to. information if the Niners didn’t have the random Super Bowl run which is their only season of even being near the playoffs in the John Lynch era(and really the post harbaugh era) we would really look at them a lot like the way people look at Gruden/Mayock to be honest. That’s all lol I just use the eyeball test and they have a solid overall roster that is littered with talent. They built their roster from the inside out on both sides of the ball which is the right thing to do. They have also nailed some mid round selections, had some very good FA acquisitions and trades. I wish the Raiders would take a page out of their playbook but it's pretty hard when we have two TV talking head stooges running the show and an owner that thinks the Lloyd Christmas look is "in style". Edited July 31, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: If you think the Raiders overall roster is even in the same universe as the 9ers you're delusional. LOL that’s not what I said. Clearly articulated my point again like I thought I already had: The Niners in the last six years have spent five I was there last six first round picks on dline. When that happens eventually your D line is going to be very good. History has shown us when you’re dealing is very good you have a chance to compete because of your ability to affect the quarterback. It even makes other players and other positions defensively better and then it also makes it to where if you just run the football well the compliment that kind of defense you can get by with a game manager like Garoppolo. here’s what I’ll say(that way there’s no confusion): outside of the Super Bowl run and the fact that the Niners have an exponentially better defense(for the reasons I’ve already explained about seven times now) there’s not a huge difference between the Mayock/Gruden era and the John lynch/Kyle shannahan era Edited August 1, 2021 by Jeremy408 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 1 minute ago, Frankie2Gunz said: I just use the eyeball test and they have a solid overall roster that is littered with talent. They built their roster from the inside out on both sides of the ball which is the right thing to do. They have also nailed some mid round selections, had some very good FA acquisitions and trades. I wish the Raiders would take a page out of their playbook but it's pretty hard when we have two TV talking head stooges running the show and an owner that thinks the Lloyd Christmas look is "in style". When you look at the roster you can clearly see that the strength of the team is the defense of line and the run game. Their run game is good because the Shanahan‘s(I always include Gary Kubiak in this) Run a zone blocking scheme that travels anywhere and works anywhere they go with anyone playing rb that also happens to be extremely Quarterback friendly. Defensively I already overstated how they basically spent 95% their high resources on the defensive line. When that happens the rest of your defense looks really good(Washington football team is doing the exact same thing they just don’t have the running game and they figured out their quarterback situation at the end of the season). This is probably why John Lynch who played safety in the NFL for a long time before becoming a GM probably elected to spend all of the first round draft picks on Dline (except for an attempt to draft a tackle in 2018). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said: When you look at the roster you can clearly see that the strength of the team is the defense of line and the run game. Their run game is good because the Shanahan‘s(I always include Gary Kubiak in this) Run a zone blocking scheme that travels anywhere and works anywhere they go with anyone playing rb that also happens to be extremely Quarterback friendly. Defensively I already overstated how they basically spent 95% their high resources on the defensive line. When that happens the rest of your defense looks really good(Washington football team is doing the exact same thing they just don’t have the running game and they figured out their quarterback situation at the end of the season). This is probably why John Lynch who played safety in the NFL for a long time before becoming a GM probably elected to spend all of the first round draft picks on Dline (except for an attempt to draft a tackle in 2018). All of this back and forth just to admit what I said from the get go? LOL They are a well built team with a good front office/ HC that makes good draft picks that signs good players that fit their scheme. I wish the Raiders could do the same. Edited August 1, 2021 by Frankie2Gunz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: All of this back and forth just to admit what I said from the get go? LOL They are a well built team with a good front office/ HC that makes good draft picks that signs good players that fit their scheme. I wish the Raiders could do the same. You must’ve missed what I put on the second response: “here’s what I’ll say(that way there’s no confusion): outside of the Super Bowl run and the fact that the Niners have an exponentially better defense(for the reasons I’ve already explained about seven times now) there’s not a huge difference between the Mayock/Gruden era and the John lynch/Kyle shannahan era” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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