R T Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 Time to trade up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted April 10, 2021 Share Posted April 10, 2021 On 4/6/2021 at 2:01 PM, vegas492 said: Barmore is explosive. If you believe what his coaches said, it took a while this year for him to learn what they wanted from him. Once he did, he took over games. To me? He's like Kenny Clark for the fact that he's young. Very athletic. With size. He isn't going to be a world beater out of the gates, but there is a ton of potential there. And...he has some great quickness to pair next to Kenny. It is a very, very good pick. Plugs one of the biggest holes on the roster..... Thanks vegas. Does "took a while... to learn" raise any yellow flags, or not really? Beats me. But I admit I do something think that the NFL is really a quick-smarts league, way more so than college. Every game plan is different; every play you're diagnosing and adapting; and every nano-second of every play guys are reading and responding in some way, right or wrong? Maybe DL requires less of that than QB or center, secondary or ILB. Probably really difficult to scout and project, especially for very young prospects. But alertness and natural quickness-of-mind is pretty common for most excellent NFL players. I'm not suggesting at all that Barmore is lacking; just curious how strongly that factors into Packers evaluations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGluteus Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 First 6th round pick is in: 6-30 (#214): Ta'Quon Graham - IDL - Texas 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGluteus Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 (edited) Green Bay is OTC in the 6th round again. We've settled on Drew Dalman, C from Stanford. He's very similar to Corey Linsley when Corey came out of college, and might be able to start at C sooner rather than later. Excellent RAS at 9.84. Perfect fit for the zone scheme. Feel free to weigh in otherwise I'll be making the pick soon. Edited April 11, 2021 by MaximusGluteus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 46 minutes ago, MaximusGluteus said: Green Bay is OTC in the 6th round again. We've settled on Drew Dalman, C from Stanford. He's very similar to Corey Linsley when Corey came out of college, and might be able to start at C sooner rather than later. Excellent RAS at 9.84. Perfect fit for the zone scheme. Feel free to weigh in otherwise I'll be making the pick soon. That is a steal at that point in the draft, perfect for the Packers scheme also. Great job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGluteus Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, R T said: That is a steal at that point in the draft, perfect for the Packers scheme also. Great job. @Packerraymond gets the credit for that one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Punting Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 On 4/7/2021 at 8:34 AM, R T said: If this is about what the Packers would do then Green is probably is not an option. Since 1992 the Packers have drafted 1 OL who was that short and it was by Mike Sherman in 2004. Sherman in his few years in charge seemed to throw Wolf's measurables out the window, but since TT returned they would seem to be back in place. Fairly sure height matters. Green is a ~3/4" shorter than Linsley. That's trivial when you consider the rest of his package. He's 10lbs heavier with bigger hands and a bigger wingspan. He's also the far more explosive player and a better overall prospect coming out. If Linsley was a tad shorter he still would've been the same player. Skill matters. I don't think Gute is so dim that he'd take one of the most talented IOL off the board over a single sub-optimal measurement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 25 minutes ago, Les Punting said: Green is a ~3/4" shorter than Linsley. That's trivial when you consider the rest of his package. He's 10lbs heavier with bigger hands and a bigger wingspan. He's also the far more explosive player and a better overall prospect coming out. If Linsley was a tad shorter he still would've been the same player. Skill matters. I don't think Gute is so dim that he'd take one of the most talented IOL off the board over a single sub-optimal measurement. I don't know if Linsley was shorter he would or would not of been the same player, that is your opinion and not a provable fact. What we do know is that in the Wolf/TT/Gutes era that spans 26 years of drafting players they have never drafted an OL that short. I am indifferent to whether they pick him or not, he is a fine player that fits the scheme well. I am simply pointing out a historical trend that suggests that he may not even be on the Packers board. If they select him or someone of his height I will simply add that to the data for future years and move on. I have no dog in the fight, only passing on information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Punting Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 4 hours ago, R T said: I don't know if Linsley was shorter he would or would not of been the same player, that is your opinion and not a provable fact. What we do know is that in the Wolf/TT/Gutes era that spans 26 years of drafting players they have never drafted an OL that short. I am indifferent to whether they pick him or not, he is a fine player that fits the scheme well. I am simply pointing out a historical trend that suggests that he may not even be on the Packers board. If they select him or someone of his height I will simply add that to the data for future years and move on. I have no dog in the fight, only passing on information. Those regimes have drafted many OL who were 6'2". That competent personnel men would have a hard cutoff at that specific height, where quality players who are 3mm shorter are off the board completely, isn't believable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted April 11, 2021 Share Posted April 11, 2021 Height of OL drafted by the Packers under Wolf/TT/Gutes since 1992. Not a single one under 6'2". 1992 Andrew Oberg 6' 7.9" 1993 Earl Dotson 6' 4" and Paul Hutchins 6' 5" 1994 Aaron Taylor 6' 4" 1995 Jeff Miller 6' 4" and Adam Timmerman 6' 4" 1996 John Michels 6' 7" , Mike Flanagan 6' 5" and Marco Rivera 6' 4" 1997 Ross Verba 6' 4" 1999 Craig Heimburger 6' 2" and Scott Curry 6' 5" 2000 Chad Clifton 6' 5" and Mark Tauscher 6' 3" 2001 Bill Ferrario 6' 2.2" 2005 Junius Coston 6' 4" Will Whitticker 6' 5" 2006 Daryn Colledge 6' 4" , Jason Spitz 6' 3" and Tony Moll 6' 5" 2007 Allen Barbre 6' 4" 2008 Josh Sitton 6' 3" and Breno Giacomini 6' 7" 2009 TJ Lang 6' 4" and Jamon Meredith 6' 4" 2010 Bryan Bulaga 6' 5" and Marshall Newhouse 6' 4" 2011 Derek Sherrod 6' 5" and Caleb Schlauderaff 6' 4" 2012 Andrew Datko 6' 6" 2013 David Bakhtiari 6' 4" and JC Tretter 6' 4" 2014 Corey Linsley 6' 2.5" 2016 Jason Spriggs 6' 6" and Kyle Murphy 6' 6" 2017 Kofi Amichia 6' 3.5" 2018 Cole Madison 6' 5" 2019 Elgton Jenkins 6' 4.4" 2020 Jon Runyan 6' 4.2" , Jake Hanson 6' 4.3" and Simon Stepaniak 6' 4.1" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 On 4/10/2021 at 8:57 AM, craig said: Thanks vegas. Does "took a while... to learn" raise any yellow flags, or not really? Beats me. But I admit I do something think that the NFL is really a quick-smarts league, way more so than college. Every game plan is different; every play you're diagnosing and adapting; and every nano-second of every play guys are reading and responding in some way, right or wrong? Maybe DL requires less of that than QB or center, secondary or ILB. Probably really difficult to scout and project, especially for very young prospects. But alertness and natural quickness-of-mind is pretty common for most excellent NFL players. I'm not suggesting at all that Barmore is lacking; just curious how strongly that factors into Packers evaluations. For me? Regarding Barmore? No red flags. Kid is a puppy. Much like Clark was. The cool thing about Barmore to me is how he compliments Clark next to him. If Clark is there to occupy and Barmore is there to disrupt, that's a great pairing. But he's a puppy, learning. I don't think Barmore is a guy who is going to start right away, I think he's going to have sub packages that would allow him to focus on disrupting. Keep it simple. I believe he will be long gone by the time we pick, he's just too talented to stay on the board that long. And he has the IDL body type already. He's a very good player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Thanks for thoughts on Barmore, vegas. Given the relative uniqueness of his skill-set, he seems like a very attractive possibility *if* he lasts to our pick. As we know from Gute's history, he's been willing to trade up in the 1st. (Three times in three drafts, yes? Jaire, Savage, and Love have all been trade-ups, right?). Wouldn't shock me if Gute's team has Barmore or one of the corners or whatever rated favorably, to see another modest trade-up. RT, thanks much for that collection of OL selection heights. I'm sure the height isn't the only variable. But it strikes me how none of the six guys who were 6'5" really worked out for us. (1st rounder John Michaels started for a while during the Favre Super Bowl, I think, but then had injuries...?) I think of this with 6'7" Yosh Nijman as a possible factor in the OT group. Is he just too tall? With that amount of height, is it just too tough to get the pad level needed? Or just too tough to stay healthy in the legs/knees/ankles/hamstrings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 17 minutes ago, craig said: Thanks for thoughts on Barmore, vegas. Given the relative uniqueness of his skill-set, he seems like a very attractive possibility *if* he lasts to our pick. As we know from Gute's history, he's been willing to trade up in the 1st. (Three times in three drafts, yes? Jaire, Savage, and Love have all been trade-ups, right?). Wouldn't shock me if Gute's team has Barmore or one of the corners or whatever rated favorably, to see another modest trade-up. RT, thanks much for that collection of OL selection heights. I'm sure the height isn't the only variable. But it strikes me how none of the six guys who were 6'5" really worked out for us. (1st rounder John Michaels started for a while during the Favre Super Bowl, I think, but then had injuries...?) I think of this with 6'7" Yosh Nijman as a possible factor in the OT group. Is he just too tall? With that amount of height, is it just too tough to get the pad level needed? Or just too tough to stay healthy in the legs/knees/ankles/hamstrings? While I like Barmore, I don't think I'd trade anything to move up for him. He's the only real first round IDL in the draft, someone will take him before us. I think we just sit where we are and look OT or CB, whoever falls to us. Wildcards are Barmore and maybe Bateman at WR. I'd have a hard time passing on those two. Course, what I really want is a trade down, then trade up. Get two second round picks. But I say that every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, craig said: Thanks for thoughts on Barmore, vegas. Given the relative uniqueness of his skill-set, he seems like a very attractive possibility *if* he lasts to our pick. As we know from Gute's history, he's been willing to trade up in the 1st. (Three times in three drafts, yes? Jaire, Savage, and Love have all been trade-ups, right?). Wouldn't shock me if Gute's team has Barmore or one of the corners or whatever rated favorably, to see another modest trade-up. RT, thanks much for that collection of OL selection heights. I'm sure the height isn't the only variable. But it strikes me how none of the six guys who were 6'5" really worked out for us. (1st rounder John Michaels started for a while during the Favre Super Bowl, I think, but then had injuries...?) I think of this with 6'7" Yosh Nijman as a possible factor in the OT group. Is he just too tall? With that amount of height, is it just too tough to get the pad level needed? Or just too tough to stay healthy in the legs/knees/ankles/hamstrings? Being too tall is an interesting topic, but players like Nate Solder and Jared Veldheer both at 6'8"+ come to mind. Off of the Packers list of draftees, Breno Giacomini went on to have a successful career with the Seahawks and Jets. On the surface it would appear that the Packers prefer them in that 6'3" - 6'5" range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusGluteus Posted April 12, 2021 Author Share Posted April 12, 2021 2 hours ago, R T said: Being too tall is an interesting topic, but players like Nate Solder and Jared Veldheer both at 6'8"+ come to mind. Off of the Packers list of draftees, Breno Giacomini went on to have a successful career with the Seahawks and Jets. On the surface it would appear that the Packers prefer them in that 6'3" - 6'5" range. You're probably right, and Green probably is too short. I didn't even realize he was only 6'1.5" when we were making the pick in the mock since I went by the 6'4" measurement given on NFL.com and didn't notice his pro day measurement. But hey, it's a mock, so no big deal. I use these things to learn more about the prospects so I have an idea of who these guys are when they're picked in the real draft. I was intrigued by Tommy Doyle but I did immediately take into account the fact that he's 6'8" since I couldn't remember the Packers ever having a guy that tall at OT aside from Veldheer, which made me pretty hesitant to consider him in the mock unless he was there in the 7th (which he is not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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