Jump to content

FFMD 2021 Vikings War Room


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

I really like Trask tbh 

To each their own. 😉   Others can certainly differ, but I don't see a high upside with him.  He may have a slightly higher floor than some others, but I have huge red flags with him.  I don't think he's much, if at all, a step up from a Sean Mannion type.       

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, swede700 said:

To each their own. 😉   Others can certainly differ, but I don't see a high upside with him.  He may have a slightly higher floor than some others, but I have huge red flags with him.  I don't think he's much, if at all, a step up from a Sean Mannion type.       

Reminds me of rivers tbh 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, swede700 said:

I personally think TE would be a low round need, if at all.  They still have Smith, Conklin and Dillon.  You might grab a developmental one later, but that's it.  I'd o along with more of Semper's hierarchy of needs, except I concur with Ozzy in putting a QB in there at about the same need as DT.  So, my list would be:

Edge

OL

DT

QB

S

Outside WR

LB

I do not have a ton of faith in Conklin and he is a FA after this season.  Sure he did something last year but nothing great and neither he or Irv can block like Rudolph did.  Maybe Dillon can be that blocker but if not they need a freaking blocking TE and if they can catch as well even better.  Playing two tight ends with a suspect OL they need a better blocking TE than Smith and Conklin.  Again maybe that is Dillon but I doubt it.  

 

 

 

2 hours ago, bcb1213 said:

I really like Trask tbh 

I like him as well but he should be gone by the 2nd round most likely.  He really threw the ball great and could even sneak into the late 1st round with a good pro day.  He can really manage a team and an offense, get the ball in the hands of the receivers and is a super competitive kid and good leader.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I do not have a ton of faith in Conklin and he is a FA after this season.  Sure he did something last year but nothing great and neither he or Irv can block like Rudolph did.

I believe that Smith can block better than Rudolph. In Smith's rookie year he had a better PFF blocking grade than Rudolph. Rudolph has never been all that good at blocking.

Quote

Smith played 684 snaps as a rookie compared to Kyle Rudolph’s 895 snaps. Per Pro Football Focus, Smith had a better run blocking grade (65.3 compared to 57.3) and a better pass blocking grade (64.3 to 59.3) than Rudolph.

Smith started the season really slow last year, but I wouldn't say that Smith Jr can't block like Rudolph -- a TE that is mediocre at blocking. I expect Smith Jr to get better at blocking as he develops.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I believe that Smith can block better than Rudolph. In Smith's rookie year he had a better PFF blocking grade than Rudolph. Rudolph has never been all that good at blocking.

Smith started the season really slow last year, but I wouldn't say that Smith Jr can't block like Rudolph -- a TE that is mediocre at blocking. I expect Smith Jr to get better at blocking as he develops.

 

Blocking grades, well I do not have that information but that can be deceptive because what they are being asked to do and the amount of plays they were blocking.  Rudolph was a bad blocker earlier in his career granted and basically had to become good at it for what the Vikings wanted him to do.  Last year no way would I say Smith was a better blocker because Rudolph had to do far more blocking than Smith ever had to do.  Rudolph had to stay in line either pass blocking or run blocking where Smith could go out.  Granted Smith was good blocking DBs but not the same against DL and LBs like Rudolph had to do constantly.

Maybe Irv can develop more in that regard but to me he will never be a "blocking" TE, he is an athletic pass catching TE and the moment he stops being that he is probably out of a job.  Just on size alone it is a massive difference between Rudolph who is tall, thick with long arms and Irv Smith who is what 6-2 242?  

To me it is a need for a team that plays two TEs consistently.  Because one goes down you only have Dillon to go to?  That is not good, a team that plays two TEs needs at least four TEs they can play and two of those should be able to block well.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

To me it is a need for a team that plays two TEs consistently.  Because one goes down you only have Dillon to go to?  That is not good, a team that plays two TEs needs at least four TEs they can play and two of those should be able to block well.  

I agree that TE is a need for the team. However, I would never suggest spending a second round pick on a TE that is to primarily be a blocking TE. As such, I am glad that Smith Jr is primarily a pass catching TE. He can block too though. Rudolph was also a second round pick and by no stretch of the imagination was he a blocking TE either; he too could block a bit.

Their previous 2nd round TE, Jim Kliensasser was a great blocking TE. However, I object to spending a pick that high on a blocking TE. It is even worse that the team traded up in to select Kleinsasser.  In the end, I love Kleinsasser; I still have a Keinsasser shirt.  Kleinsasser worked outgreat for the Vikings, but I do not agree with using a pick like that. 

The Vikings need at TE is no better than a 4th round need IMO. If I see the team trade up into the second for a blocking TE my head might explode.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cearbhall said:

I agree that TE is a need for the team. However, I would never suggest spending a second round pick on a TE that is to primarily be a blocking TE. As such, I am glad that Smith Jr is primarily a pass catching TE. He can block too though. Rudolph was also a second round pick and by no stretch of the imagination was he a blocking TE either; he too could block a bit.

Their previous 2nd round TE, Jim Kliensasser was a great blocking TE. However, I object to spending a pick that high on a blocking TE. It is even worse that the team traded up in to select Kleinsasser.  In the end, I love Kleinsasser; I still have a Keinsasser shirt.  Kleinsasser worked outgreat for the Vikings, but I do not agree with using a pick like that. 

The Vikings need at TE is no better than a 4th round need IMO. If I see the team trade up into the second for a blocking TE my head might explode.

Rudolph in the offense the past few seasons was the blocking TE because that is what he did while the other TE usually Irv Smith went out for far more passes and receptions than Rudolph did.  The Vikings do not have a 2nd round pick and who said they would trade up into the 2nd round for a blocking TE?  That is not what I was saying.  I agree 4th round makes sense or if a guy is there late 3rd round.  They have 4 picks in rounds 3-4 so one of those I feel should be a TE.

Tremble from Notre Dame is the best blocking TE in the draft and I would like him in rounds 3-4 no question but he could be gone to another team in either one of those rounds.  

 

 

In terms of this thing, the Vikings do not pick for awhile and no real reason to trade up if we got Slater already.  Which would be almost idea in the real world but doubt it will happen.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Rudolph in the offense the past few seasons was the blocking TE because that is what he did while the other TE usually Irv Smith went out for far more passes and receptions than Rudolph did.

I am going to have to call BS on this statement. In 2019 Rudolph had 407 receiving snaps, 398 run blocking snaps, and 90 pass blocking snaps. Smith Jr as a rookie that year had 363, 296, and 25 respectively. 

My reference to second round TEs was not based on anyone saying that, it is based on the Vikings history of taking TEs in the second round (Smith Jr, Rudolph, Kleinsasser). 

At the end of the day, I think we both agree that the team can use a TE in the middle rounds.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

I do not have a ton of faith in Conklin and he is a FA after this season.  Sure he did something last year but nothing great and neither he or Irv can block like Rudolph did.  Maybe Dillon can be that blocker but if not they need a freaking blocking TE and if they can catch as well even better.  Playing two tight ends with a suspect OL they need a better blocking TE than Smith and Conklin.  Again maybe that is Dillon but I doubt it.  

 

 

 

I like him as well but he should be gone by the 2nd round most likely.  He really threw the ball great and could even sneak into the late 1st round with a good pro day.  He can really manage a team and an offense, get the ball in the hands of the receivers and is a super competitive kid and good leader.  

You'd be surprised. I got him in the third in the last mock draft. Obviously with the team needs I wouldn't take him before the third but after the first five qb go.  There's a pretty sizable lull in teams that actually need qb 

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I am going to have to call BS on this statement. In 2019 Rudolph had 407 receiving snaps, 398 run blocking snaps, and 90 pass blocking snaps. Smith Jr as a rookie that year had 363, 296, and 25 respectively. 

My reference to second round TEs was not based on anyone saying that, it is based on the Vikings history of taking TEs in the second round (Smith Jr, Rudolph, Kleinsasser). 

At the end of the day, I think we both agree that the team can use a TE in the middle rounds.

Where you getting these numbers?  Still that is over 100 more snaps run blocking and a little under 70 more snaps pass blocking so that is a difference and helps show he was used more as a blocker than Smith.   2020 I assume was even more Rudolph blocking because he was targeted less in the pass game.  But yeah I agree TE in the middle rounds would be nice.  

 

31 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

You'd be surprised. I got him in the third in the last mock draft. Obviously with the team needs I wouldn't take him before the third but after the first five qb go.  There's a pretty sizable lull in teams that actually need qb 

Washington needs one and so does Chicago.  I have both of them getting one in the 2nd with Trask and Mond.  Then you have the Patriots if they cannot get one in the 1st round who will want one, and the Titans possibly and Philadelphia in the later rounds assuming they do not get one in the 1st.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Where you getting these numbers?  Still that is over 100 more snaps run blocking and a little under 70 more snaps pass blocking so that is a difference and helps show he was used more as a blocker than Smith.   2020 I assume was even more Rudolph blocking because he was targeted less in the pass game.  But yeah I agree TE in the middle rounds would be nice.  

 

Washington needs one and so does Chicago.  I have both of them getting one in the 2nd with Trask and Mond.  Then you have the Patriots if they cannot get one in the 1st round who will want one, and the Titans possibly and Philadelphia in the later rounds assuming they do not get one in the 1st.  

In this the redskins have taken Lance and the Patriots Jones... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, bcb1213 said:

In this the redskins have taken Lance and the Patriots Jones... 

True but this is not reality, anyone can make any trade and there are no repercussions because it is just a one year thing.  So you can trade away future draft picks, who cares if all one is really worrying about is how it looks now.  Curious what each traded away to get them.

 

Still that means Carolina still needs a QB, Atlanta might be in play for one, Chicago obviously is etc.  Not to mention the Saints and possibly Eagles.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

True but this is not reality, anyone can make any trade and there are no repercussions because it is just a one year thing.  So you can trade away future draft picks, who cares if all one is really worrying about is how it looks now.  Curious what each traded away to get them.

 

Still that means Carolina still needs a QB, Atlanta might be in play for one, Chicago obviously is etc.  Not to mention the Saints and possibly Eagles.

Doubt Atlanta they moved so much of Ryan's salary to next year they are tied to him for two years 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...