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Dolphins trade 3rd overall pick to SF


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2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Why? What am I missing here that makes Mac Jones a laughing stock? Is it because of the talent surrounding him? The same could be said for Lawrence and Fields. Even Lance really considering he played at what amounts to the Alabama of D2. I just don’t understand why people dislike Mac Jones in the top 5 but are totally okay with Lance in the top 5? And I like Trey Lance but he went an entire season only having 287 pass attempts and is basically about as raw as you can get. 

His value is artificially inflated by his position and the demand for it. Really he grades out as an early second rounder, and that was where most had him earlier in the draft process. It isnt an amazing pro day or combine that pushed his stock up (because his pro day was bad and there was no pro day). It was simply the need at QB. 

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11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Imagine the 4D chess that would be played, wherein the entire league smokescreen's their way into the Jets doing the most J-E-T-S thing ever, and talking themselves into Mac Jones due to peer pressure.

lol im telling you man

i wouldnt count it out

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2 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Why? What am I missing here that makes Mac Jones a laughing stock? Is it because of the talent surrounding him? The same could be said for Lawrence and Fields. Even Lance really considering he played at what amounts to the Alabama of D2. I just don’t understand why people dislike Mac Jones in the top 5 but are totally okay with Lance in the top 5? And I like Trey Lance but he went an entire season only having 287 pass attempts and is basically about as raw as you can get. 

Mac has pretty meh attributes across the board. The arm strength is meh. The accuracy is really nice, but nothing that supports it's better than Fields and he has more time typically. 

He's got to really max out above the shoulders to make a top 3 selection worth it and that's going to be really hard to gauge based on what he's done at college. I think he's a late round first type that you push up to the middle of the round based on scarcity of the position, but to me he's Derek Carr (and that's not an insult) or Jimmy G. I saw someone say Andy Dalton, and that's fine as well. 

In 2020 he threw 34% of his passes at or behind the line of scrimmage, and nearly a quarter of his passes were single read RPOs. Of all QBs taken in the first round the last 4 years, he would rank second highest percentage of yardage coming after the catch (second to only Tua). It's a system built around making life easier for the QB....and a fan of a team that is employed Jimmy G the last 4 years, let me tell you I'm an expert in this LOL. 

He likely won't create much out of structure. 11% of his passes come from out of the pocket and he gets to do a lot of this while not facing a ton of pressure. He faces 3 man pressure on nearly 10% of his drop backs, almost twice as high as Fields and faces 5 or more pass rushers about 10% less than Fields. He's not forced to make a ton of throws into tight windows. He can do it (he had one of the best throws I saw all last year with this absurd touchdown pass against UK), but he doesn't do it a lot, so what's going to happen when he's forced to at the next level? For reference, PFF charted Joe Burrow with having nearly 3x as many tight window throws as Mac Jones. 

People tend to treat pocket passers as "safer" prospects than the "athletic" guys. The truth is he's not any safer. It's a looooooooooooot  of projection when it comes to how he sees the game on the field, and if the mental side of his game doesn't progress at the next level (and it does need to continue to progress), he can easily just be Josh Rosen, who was the "polished, NFL ready" guy a couple of years back. 

 In 2 years, Fields and Lance could do everything that Mac Jones can do. In 2 years Mac Jones can not do what those two guys can (Well, Fields certainly could...not sure about Lance because I really dislike the way he throws the football lol). 

The crappy part is that Jones is a fine prospect. If he got picked at 12 where the niners originally were, I think most people nod their head and go "maybe a little early, but makes sense  and you don't risk losing your QB". He's not being asked to get picked #3 overall if he does (and for the record, I still very much doubt he's the pick, though I won't remove him from consideration) and it's unfair to hold it against him, though people will. 

As for Lance V Mac, I know what you mean. That's going to be a preference thing of raw + ceiling vs polished + floor. Because I don't think Mac is very safe in terms of floor anyway, I have Lance waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead in the rankings because I don't think the rawness is a hindrance (I did think that Lance was going to be the guy who fell in the draft weeks ago, including being picked after Jones, however). It's really about how much you value the ceiling. Spending all that capital for  a guy with a physical cap right from the start seems tough. 

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4 hours ago, lavar703 said:

Why? What am I missing here that makes Mac Jones a laughing stock? Is it because of the talent surrounding him? The same could be said for Lawrence and Fields. Even Lance really considering he played at what amounts to the Alabama of D2. I just don’t understand why people dislike Mac Jones in the top 5 but are totally okay with Lance in the top 5? And I like Trey Lance but he went an entire season only having 287 pass attempts and is basically about as raw as you can get. 

Jones isn't a laughing stock. Trading 3 firsts for him and picking him at 3 is laughable though. I honestly think he'd be there at 12. Especially now Carolina are out. 

I don't think Lance will go top 5 either. It's got to be Lawrence, Wilson and Fields. Then next QB probably 9th pick, or someone could come in to 8. 

I don't think Lance is as raw as his limited snaps would say. He sets protections and plays in a 'pro ready' offense. 

 

see this is why I refuse to believe SF will actually do this.

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As the resident lifelong Bama fan on here, I think Mac is highly underrated.  If it weren't for Covid, many of us wanted Bryce Young to be the guy.  But Mac stepped up and delivered in a historic way.  Sure he had some stallions alongside him but like @lavar703said, it's not like Lawrence and Fields were bereft of talent.  That narrative is a complete joke.  Bama, Clemson and Ohio St are the upper echelon in college football and all continually bring in elite caliber players with top 5 draft classes.  All 3 of these teams reload.  Would I have traded picks to move up to #3 in order to get him?  Of course not.  Tbh I figured he'd go top 15-20 bcuz of the dire need for QBs.  

I also wouldn't draft Fields at 3 and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's the next in a long line of Ohio St QB busts (Haskins, Barrett, Miller, Jones, Pryor, Smith, etc).  I keep hearing too many ppl say how Fields played poorly against NW and Indiana but somehow forget how horrendous he looked vs Bama.  The biggest stage he ever played on and he laid a fat egg (while Mac shined like the sun).  Some ppl blamed his play in the Natty loss on his injury but somehow he was able to overcame the same injury vs Clemson?  It can't go both ways so which is it?  

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5 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

Some ppl blamed his play in the Natty loss on his injury but somehow he was able to overcame the same injury vs Clemson?  It can't go both ways so which is it?  

I would venture to say that there are many examples of players that are able to continue to play a game after getting injured during that game, yet the injury is actually more impactful/limiting for the following weeks game.  

Something about human physiology and the response to injury that occurs over the course of the subsequent 24-72 hours with swelling/inflammation, ecchymosis (bruising), muscle/joint stiffness and tightness as a protective mechanism, that can persist for multiple days and even weeks.

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17 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

As the resident lifelong Bama fan on here, I think Mac is highly underrated.  If it weren't for Covid, many of us wanted Bryce Young to be the guy.  But Mac stepped up and delivered in a historic way.  Sure he had some stallions alongside him but like @lavar703said, it's not like Lawrence and Fields were bereft of talent.  That narrative is a complete joke.  Bama, Clemson and Ohio St are the upper echelon in college football and all continually bring in elite caliber players with top 5 draft classes.  All 3 of these teams reload.  Would I have traded picks to move up to #3 in order to get him?  Of course not.  Tbh I figured he'd go top 15-20 bcuz of the dire need for QBs.  

Highly underrated, but you say he'd go 15-20...isn't that where most people are okay with him? Are you finding a lot of people thinking that he's not worth that kind of slot? I've been lukewarm on Mac and even I think that would be fine if you drafted him in that slot. The people that I think view him in the spectrum of say a day two guy is probably in line with the number of people I find who think he's worth the #3 pick, tbh. 

17 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

I also wouldn't draft Fields at 3 and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's the next in a long line of Ohio St QB busts (Haskins, Barrett, Miller, Jones, Pryor, Smith, etc).    

This is just a weird, weird thing. 

You seriously named one first round pick (total bust, fair), but then a UDFA, a wide receiver (Miller was converted to WR before leaving OSU and was drafted as such), a 4th rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a 5th rounder from 14 years ago. What are you using as the measure of a bust lol

So can I say the same about Mac? Alabama's history includes a top 6 pick that was benched multiple times his rookie year and was bad enough that people considered whether his team should give him the Josh Rosen treatment, "bust" AJ McCarron 5th round, "bust" Greg McElroy as a 7th rounder, bust Brodie Croyle (3rd round) and hasn't produced an NFL caliber quarterback since Stabler. 

17 minutes ago, thrILL! said:

I keep hearing too many ppl say how Fields played poorly against NW and Indiana but somehow forget how horrendous he looked vs Bama.  The biggest stage he ever played on and he laid a fat egg (while Mac shined like the sun).  Some ppl blamed his play in the Natty loss on his injury but somehow he was able to overcame the same injury vs Clemson?  It can't go both ways so which is it? 

It actually could go both ways. Squire addressed it a bit, and I'd let him roll with that more so than tackling it myself as that is his field. 

But you're not completely wrong here. It's one of my critiques on him in the 49er thread on which QB. That being said, he still dropped some absolute dimes in that game and wasn't as bad as you're letting on in my opinion. 

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People are making too big of a deal about Mac Jones and where he gets drafted.  As fans, we all look at what we think would give our team the best chance to succeed, and we want prospects with the most athletic tools as possible.  While that makes sense in a way, a coach like Shanahan knows exactly what he is looking for in the guy who will be running his offense. 

Maybe he will want a guy who can throw it a mile and run like Michael Vick, but maybe there is something he sees in Mac Jones that is more important to him.  Maybe he has just decided that this is "his guy" and he's willing to sink or swim with him.  If that's the case, more power to him. 

He's a good coach, and he should do well with whomever he thinks enough of to move all the way up to #3 overall.

Mac Jones is not who I would pick in this situation, but what do I know?  Hahaha.

Good luck to the Niners, no matter who they decide to draft.

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35 minutes ago, Forge said:

Highly underrated, but you say he'd go 15-20...isn't that where most people are okay with him? Are you finding a lot of people thinking that he's not worth that kind of slot? I've been lukewarm on Mac and even I think that would be fine if you drafted him in that slot. The people that I think view him in the spectrum of say a day two guy is probably in line with the number of people I find who think he's worth the #3 pick, tbh. 

I guess that semantics but more about the ppl who think he's not even worth being in the discussion.  All these ppl saying he only throws to wide open WRs when there is significant evidence showing that his accuracy led to so many dimes with close coverage.  He's not athletic like Lance, Fields or even Lawrence but his cerebral hold on the game is extraordinary.  When you hear him talk about the game he sounds like he's got a photographic memory.  He's got some wiggle in the pocket but it will be interesting to see how he holds up to NFL pass rushes.

 

35 minutes ago, Forge said:

This is just a weird, weird thing. 

You seriously named one first round pick (total bust, fair), but then a UDFA, a wide receiver (Miller was converted to WR before leaving OSU and was drafted as such), a 4th rounder, a 3rd rounder, and a 5th rounder from 14 years ago. What are you using as the measure of a bust lol

Busts as in they all sucked at QB and either flamed out or switched positions (and flamed out lol), not necessarily where they were picked.  And for the most part those were Urban's system (except for Pryor and Smith) which as we've seen from Tebow, etc at Florida doesn't translate.  Only Alex Smith is the outlier for Urban.  We're still waiting to see with Day (and no he doesn't get credit for Burrow. That was all Brady).  

 

35 minutes ago, Forge said:

So can I say the same about Mac? Alabama's history includes a top 6 pick that was benched multiple times his rookie year and was bad enough that people considered whether his team should give him the Josh Rosen treatment, "bust" AJ McCarron 5th round, "bust" Greg McElroy as a 7th rounder, bust Brodie Croyle (3rd round) and hasn't produced an NFL caliber quarterback since Stabler. 

Except only Tua came from the same system as Mac and he is NFL caliber.  AJ is still a backup QB in the league where none of those Buckeyes QBs are even in the league except Haskins and that's by a hair.  Nobody ever expected McElroy to be an NFL QB but he got more burn than Jones or Barrett.  Croyle could've been the Bama GOAT until his injury vs Oklahoma and who knows what else beyond but even he carved out an NFL career far better than any of those Buckeyes QBs mentioned.  Stabler?  You don't see me comparing Fields to Art Schlichter.  LoL

 

35 minutes ago, Forge said:

But you're not completely wrong here. It's one of my critiques on him in the 49er thread on which QB. That being said, he still dropped some absolute dimes in that game and wasn't as bad as you're letting on in my opinion. 

He's definitely got talent but as someone who has watched that game multiple times, he also missed some bunnies including an easy one to his WR in the end zone (that same goal line series he had a pass that should've been an INT by Surtain) that they desperately needed and thus settled for a FG.  Fields' best play of the night was like a 40 yard scramble.  I just don't understand how such inconsistency in big games can be overlooked by so many and yet Jones' consistency in big games is attributed solely to everyone else around him.  He still had to make the plays and reads.

Edited by thrILL!
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5 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

49er fans are going to be nervous as hell draft night

I won't. It would be a dumb selection to me, but I also believe that no matter who it is, they are going to be somewhat successful with shanny. I didn't like mahomes as a prospect, so I'm willing to acknowledge the chance that I'm wrong on my evaluation too lol.

Jones will be okay though.  I don't think he's going to be good, but he'll be fine. There will be some nominal success under a rookie contract structure.  Jimmy g made a super bowl. 

Plus, I get to have a whole lot of fun with that selection in terms of commentary, especially on Twitter with all the people that lose their minds (there are some people that are truly insufferable and just refuse to acknowledge the possibility of things they don't want to happen). There's almost always entertainment to be found

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